Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Grigorovich M-5 Flying Boat
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thegirl
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 03:05 PM UTC
Mark , where do you get your Brass strut material from . I can only find it in plastic from which at times is not very suitable for strenght .
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guitarlute101
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 03:47 PM UTC
Terri,
Go to : www.rollmodels.com and type in Strutz in the searchable catalog. It's $18 a pack.
Mark
Go to : www.rollmodels.com and type in Strutz in the searchable catalog. It's $18 a pack.
Mark
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guitarlute101
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Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 07:35 AM UTC
Here's some work on the tailplane. It wasn't lining up like I'd hoped so I disassembled it and started with a new jig.
I measured the leading and trailing edges and made 4 supports to cradle the horizontal tailplane. The leading edge at 2.5cm and the trailing at 2.1cm.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3894.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3895.jpg)
I made the supports out of .30 sheet and some left over resin pour blocks cut and glued to the bottom of the support.. I made them a little high so I could cut a notch at the correct height for each support.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3898.jpg)
Here's one cut to 2.1 cm.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3899.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3900.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3901.jpg)
Here's the tailplane resting on the supports over the fuselage tail with no struts..........
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3902.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3903.jpg)
Now that the tailplane is lined up with the scale drawing and fuselage, I can attach the forward strut................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3907.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3909.jpg)
I'll be adding the rest of the struts and painting the tailplane over the next few days.
Mark
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guitarlute101
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2008 - 03:57 AM UTC
I've done the seatbelts. I used .008 lead foil and some left over photo-etch parts from my 1/48 Etrich Taube build.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3917.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3918.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3924.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3929.jpg)
My air compressor regulator arrived by UPS as I was working on the seatbelts. I'll hopefully get some painting done today.
Mark
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guitarlute101
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2008 - 10:02 AM UTC
Hello all,
Here's one last post for the day. I couldn't wait to get the regulator on the airbrush and start airbrushing so I'm getting the bottom of the lower wings ready for the wing floats and roundels. I first airbrushed them Tamiya Medium Grey as a primer then pre-shaded with black then painted them Misterkit WW1 Russian Doped Linen.
.....primer...
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3933.jpg)
......pre-shade.....
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3934.jpg)
......doped linen.........
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3936.jpg)
You can see the lines I've scribed into the bottom of the wing now.
more soon,
Mark
Here's one last post for the day. I couldn't wait to get the regulator on the airbrush and start airbrushing so I'm getting the bottom of the lower wings ready for the wing floats and roundels. I first airbrushed them Tamiya Medium Grey as a primer then pre-shaded with black then painted them Misterkit WW1 Russian Doped Linen.
.....primer...
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3933.jpg)
......pre-shade.....
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3934.jpg)
......doped linen.........
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3936.jpg)
You can see the lines I've scribed into the bottom of the wing now.
more soon,
Mark
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guitarlute101
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Posted: Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 10:50 AM UTC
Hello all,
I've painted the roundels on the lower wings today.
Frisket paper..............
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3944.jpg)
Measure with a circle cutter...........
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3946.jpg)
Cut the circles on the frisket paper......
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3949.jpg)
A little touch up and it's done.......
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3954.jpg)
This was my first time making roundel masks. It turned out better than I'd hoped.
More later,
Mark
I've painted the roundels on the lower wings today.
Frisket paper..............
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3944.jpg)
Measure with a circle cutter...........
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3946.jpg)
Cut the circles on the frisket paper......
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3949.jpg)
A little touch up and it's done.......
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3954.jpg)
This was my first time making roundel masks. It turned out better than I'd hoped.
More later,
Mark
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guitarlute101
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Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 03:34 AM UTC
I got the wing floats on today, Here are the floats..
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_1987.jpg)
I drilled holes to accept the struts and line and pulled the lines through the wing, taped them down and superglued the holes in the wing on the top and bottom.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3968.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3962.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3964.jpg)
Next I'll clean up the top of the wings and paint them..
Send out some comments, please. I need to weather the wings some, let me know if anyone out there has any ideas for me for any techniques to weather Clear Doped linen (CDL). I have a few ideas in mind but I'd like to hear from some others who have any weathering techniques they find useful.
Mark
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_1987.jpg)
I drilled holes to accept the struts and line and pulled the lines through the wing, taped them down and superglued the holes in the wing on the top and bottom.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3968.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3962.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3964.jpg)
Next I'll clean up the top of the wings and paint them..
Send out some comments, please. I need to weather the wings some, let me know if anyone out there has any ideas for me for any techniques to weather Clear Doped linen (CDL). I have a few ideas in mind but I'd like to hear from some others who have any weathering techniques they find useful.
Mark
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JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 06:47 AM UTC
Wow Mark! Most impressive. A 1/72 vacuform kit of the Short 184 won the Mike Fritz award this year at the IPMS USA Nats. This build would be a definate contender. Please Model on!
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Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 12:04 PM UTC
Hi Mark , I'm new to weathering some what It's something that I didn't do alot of . How I do my dope linen : I do my preshading and the spray CDL after this has dried for a few days I go back over the ribs with a lighter shade , clear with dull coat and then I use pastle chaclks to blend all that in . seal it future add decals and the to light washes then the final dull coat .
I'm still learning about this myself but I do hope that I was able to give you some guide line to go by .
I'm still learning about this myself but I do hope that I was able to give you some guide line to go by .
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guitarlute101
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Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 04:19 PM UTC
Thanks for the comments Stephen and Terri.
Here's the jig to hold the top wing............
supports....................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3972.jpg)
Leading edge supports glued down....................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3973.jpg)
Here are the wings suspended on the supports..............
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3974.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3975.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3976.jpg)
I measured the gap and used a part of the bottom lower wing that I didn't use to make a piece to connect the wings.....................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3986.jpg)
test fit a few struts......................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3987.jpg)
I had a little extra time so I made a center support that connects the wing and fuselage. I used a pin vice to drill holes in the struts for the pins. The rear support will also be the engine support............
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3969.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3970.jpg)
More later...............
Mark
Here's the jig to hold the top wing............
supports....................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3972.jpg)
Leading edge supports glued down....................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3973.jpg)
Here are the wings suspended on the supports..............
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3974.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3975.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3976.jpg)
I measured the gap and used a part of the bottom lower wing that I didn't use to make a piece to connect the wings.....................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3986.jpg)
test fit a few struts......................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3987.jpg)
I had a little extra time so I made a center support that connects the wing and fuselage. I used a pin vice to drill holes in the struts for the pins. The rear support will also be the engine support............
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3969.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3970.jpg)
More later...............
Mark
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 06:26 PM UTC
Hi Mark!
Very, very, very nice...
and a thread full of informations and techniques. Thanks a lot for sharing!
Jean-Luc
Very, very, very nice...
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Jean-Luc
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guitarlute101
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Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 12:25 AM UTC
Thank you Jean-Luc. I've been checking in on your Siebel Si204 thread and I have to tell you it is second to none. You've made that kit look like it was a state of the art injection molded kit that was released this summer. Excellent work. Kind words from you are most appreciated.
Mark
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guitarlute101
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Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 12:11 PM UTC
I painted the bottom of the fuselage. Some of my sources said the hull bottoms were painted light grey or light blue. I masked off the top of the fuselage and I went with light grey...............
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3997.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3991.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3992.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_3995.jpg)
Mark
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guitarlute101
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Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 04:57 AM UTC
Hello all,
Here's some work on the lower wings. Here's how I generally weather the wings to get contrasting colors. I lightened the color of the wing ribs with a lighter color of the wing CDL.
I use Rembrant pastel chalks.. mainly Gold Ochre (not pictured), Grey, Yellow Ochre, Raw Umber, Burnt Umber, and Burnt Sienna.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4017.jpg)
I use a curved exacto blade and scrape off some chalk onto a pallet.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4018.jpg)
I use a semi-stiff brush and "paint" the pastels on.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4020.jpg)
Here's the wing before pastel shading..............................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4022.jpg)
Here it is after shading.............................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4023.jpg)
The idea is to vary the shading and try not to be symetrical.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4024.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4021.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4025.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4026.jpg)
More soon,
Mark
Here's some work on the lower wings. Here's how I generally weather the wings to get contrasting colors. I lightened the color of the wing ribs with a lighter color of the wing CDL.
I use Rembrant pastel chalks.. mainly Gold Ochre (not pictured), Grey, Yellow Ochre, Raw Umber, Burnt Umber, and Burnt Sienna.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4017.jpg)
I use a curved exacto blade and scrape off some chalk onto a pallet.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4018.jpg)
I use a semi-stiff brush and "paint" the pastels on.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4020.jpg)
Here's the wing before pastel shading..............................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4022.jpg)
Here it is after shading.............................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4023.jpg)
The idea is to vary the shading and try not to be symetrical.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4024.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4021.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4025.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4026.jpg)
More soon,
Mark
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JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 05:40 AM UTC
Most impressive Mark! Model On! Please.
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Posted: Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 03:20 AM UTC
very nice job done on the weathering on the lower wings .
Looking forward on seeing more .
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guitarlute101
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Posted: Monday, September 01, 2008 - 04:07 AM UTC
Thanks Stephen and Terri, I appreciate your comments.
Here's a way to simulate the metal bands on struts. (I'd previously painted the struts usuing the same painting method I used for the floor of the cockpit.)
Here's a few pics of the Grigorovich struts......
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4045.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4046.jpg)
There are 5 bands on each strut. I measured the struts and come up with 3.8 cm...
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4054.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4056.jpg)
Here you see my math. I divided 3.8 cm by six to locate the points where the bands should be located. It came to 6.3 mm. I marked the location with lines..........
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4058.jpg)
Next I colored some bare metal foil with a black Sharpie and allowed it to dry.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4059.jpg)
Then I cut thin strips and used small tweezers to attach the foil to the struts using the marks on the paper for a guide so they would be symetrical.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4067.jpg)
Here's the finished struts, not great pics but you can get the idea.........
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4066.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4068.jpg)
More soon,
Mark
Here's a way to simulate the metal bands on struts. (I'd previously painted the struts usuing the same painting method I used for the floor of the cockpit.)
Here's a few pics of the Grigorovich struts......
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4045.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4046.jpg)
There are 5 bands on each strut. I measured the struts and come up with 3.8 cm...
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4054.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4056.jpg)
Here you see my math. I divided 3.8 cm by six to locate the points where the bands should be located. It came to 6.3 mm. I marked the location with lines..........
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4058.jpg)
Next I colored some bare metal foil with a black Sharpie and allowed it to dry.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4059.jpg)
Then I cut thin strips and used small tweezers to attach the foil to the struts using the marks on the paper for a guide so they would be symetrical.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4067.jpg)
Here's the finished struts, not great pics but you can get the idea.........
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4066.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4068.jpg)
More soon,
Mark
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guitarlute101
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Posted: Monday, September 01, 2008 - 08:40 AM UTC
I've also had time to mask and paint the roundels on the top wing............................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4069.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4071.jpg)
Mark
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guitarlute101
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Posted: Sunday, September 07, 2008 - 03:04 PM UTC
Hello all,
Here's a little work on the bottom of the lower wing. I'm using Part turnbuckle photo-etch for rigging attachment points on the wings.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4015.jpg)
Here's the wing and PE.......
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4082.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4079.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4080.jpg)
Mark
Here's a little work on the bottom of the lower wing. I'm using Part turnbuckle photo-etch for rigging attachment points on the wings.
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4015.jpg)
Here's the wing and PE.......
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4082.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4079.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4080.jpg)
Mark
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MerlinV
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Posted: Sunday, September 07, 2008 - 10:19 PM UTC
Bl**dy hell Mark...
I don't know where you find the time for this kind of stuff, wht with this and the Gotha going at once...
This is going to finish up a museum piece!
Cheers,
Hugh
I don't know where you find the time for this kind of stuff, wht with this and the Gotha going at once...
This is going to finish up a museum piece!
Cheers,
Hugh
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thegirl
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Posted: Monday, September 08, 2008 - 03:52 AM UTC
Excellent work Mark , i'm really enjoying your thrend on this build ! The rib tapping stands out so well , will be trying the clear tape method myself
Cheers Mark
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Cheers Mark
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guitarlute101
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Posted: Monday, September 08, 2008 - 12:57 PM UTC
Thanks Hugh and Terri.
I just bought Issue 24 No. 2 of Windsock Worldwide and it had 2 Grig pics I'd never seen before and they answered a lot of rigging questions I was struggling with. These things were rigged like spider webs. Wait 'til you see my new home made turnbuckles................
Mark
![](../modules/SquawkBox/images/smilies/hello.gif)
I just bought Issue 24 No. 2 of Windsock Worldwide and it had 2 Grig pics I'd never seen before and they answered a lot of rigging questions I was struggling with. These things were rigged like spider webs. Wait 'til you see my new home made turnbuckles................
Mark
![](../images/avatar/213.png)
guitarlute101
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Posted: Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 02:57 AM UTC
Hello everyone,
I decided to make rigging attachment points on each strut instead of "through the wing" rigging.
I used 1/48 Part photo-etch turnbuckles....................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4015-1.jpg)
Cut in half and bent with tweezers......................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4050.jpg)
Here are a few installed...........................................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4051.jpg)
Test fit a spare strut.........looks good......................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4047.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4085.jpg)
More soon,
Mark
I decided to make rigging attachment points on each strut instead of "through the wing" rigging.
I used 1/48 Part photo-etch turnbuckles....................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4015-1.jpg)
Cut in half and bent with tweezers......................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4050.jpg)
Here are a few installed...........................................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4051.jpg)
Test fit a spare strut.........looks good......................
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4047.jpg)
![](../../i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/guitarlute101/IMG_4085.jpg)
More soon,
Mark
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MerlinV
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Posted: Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 11:31 AM UTC
Cool!
What a great Idea. I might have to steal that one.
Cheers,
Hugh
What a great Idea. I might have to steal that one.
Cheers,
Hugh
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JackFlash
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Posted: Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 01:43 PM UTC
Great ! Now I am going to need an electron microsope to do as well.
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