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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Richthofen Crash Site Diorama--help!
uproar
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Nebraska, United States
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Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 01:11 PM UTC
Greetings,

I am pondering the possibility of a diorama of the crash site of the great Herr Richthofen, immediately following his untimely demise, as Australian ground troops are descending upon his crashed aircraft. I would love any suggestions of research websites, publications, diagrams, or anything else that might help me piece together what the scene looked like, the condition of his crashed plane (from what I understand the damage was fairly minimal, all things considered), and so forth, after the Aussie ground gunners had their way with him, and Roy Brown flew home feeling terribly proud of himself.

Any suggestions? Thank you!

Rory
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 03:39 PM UTC
Actually Capt. Brown was glad he stopped the German from shooting down his squardon mate Lt. May. It was only after he landed that they told him who it was he had been chasing. Several modelers have done dioramas of the scene at Vaux sur Somme. There are several good books on the subject. Actually I have heard it said that there have been more books written about Rittmeister Manfred Freiherr von Richthofen than Abraham Lincoln.

Fokker Dr I Aces of World War I
(Osprey Aircraft of the Aces No 40)
by Norman Franks, Greg Van Wyngarden
Paperback: 96 pages
Publisher: Osprey Aviation (August, 2001)
Language: English
ISBN: 1841762237

Undoubtedly the most famous fighter type to see service on either side during World War 1, the Fokker Dr I was a revelation when it entered service on the western front in 1917. Manfred von Richthofen's JG 1 'circus' was the first Jasta to completely re-equip with the new fighter, and in the skilled hands of its numerous aces the Dr I proved a formidable opponent. The Dr I remained in service on the Western Front until replaced by the superior Fokker D VII in May 1918. Just weeks prior to that, however, Germany's leading ace, the great 'Red Baron', had been killed at the controls of a Dr I.

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In the Footsteps of the Red Baron
by Michael O'Connor and Norman Franks
Paperback: 160 pages
Publisher: Pen and Sword (December, 2004)
Language: English
ISBN: 1844150879

Manfred von Richthofen became a fighter pilot on the Western Front in August 1916. By January 1917, Richthofen had shot down fifteen aircraft had been appointed commander of his own unit. He painted the fuselage of his Albatros D-III a bright red and was nicknamed the Red Baron. In June 1917, Richthofen was appointed commander of the German Flying Circus. Made up of Germany's top fighter pilots, this new unit was highly mobile and could be quickly sent to any part of the Western Front where it was most needed. Richthofen and his pilots achieved immediate success during the air war over Ypres during August and September. Manfred von Richthofen was killed on 21st April 1918. Richthofen had destroyed 80 allied aircraft, the highest score of any fighter pilot during the First World War. This book is divided into three sectors of the WWI front line in which von Richthofen operated. Each area is conveniently reached within hours. Airfield sites, memorials and the graves of Manfred's famous victims are described and directions for the battlefield walker are included with information on related museums and historic sites with special association with this most famous of fighter pilots.

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The Red Air Fighter
by Manfred Von Richthofen, Norman Franks (Introduction)
Paperback: 192 pages
Publisher: Stackpole Books (May, 1999)
Language: English
ISBN: 1853673625
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JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 03:45 PM UTC
To continue. . .

The Red Baron's Last Flight
An In-depth Investigation into What Really Happened on the Day Von Richthofen Was Shot Down
by Norman Franks
Paperback: 144 pages
Publisher: Grub Street (November 19, 2005)
Language: English
ISBN: 1904943330

The mysterious events of April 21, 1918, the day the legendary Red Baron met his end, have kept the world captivated for decades. There have been many theories, articles and books concerning exactly what took place but all previous accounts have been overshadowed by this groundbreaking book. Here is the definitive answer to one of history's most compelling mysteries. Taking you straight to the site of Richthofen's final crash, leading aviation historian Norman Franks and pilot Alan Bennett dissect the evidence and expose what only eyewitnesses could see, complimented by a host of forensic and historical facts that illustrate in detail what actually occurred, when and how.
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Under the Guns of the Red Baron
The Complete Record of Von Richthofen's Victories and Victims
by Norman Franks, Hal Giblin, Nigel McCrery
Paperback: 256 pages
Dimensions (in inches): 0.66 x 9.85 x 8.24
Publisher: Grub Street the Basement; (December 1998)
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Who Killed the Red Baron?
by P. J. Carisella, James W. Ryan
Paperback: 226 pages
Publisher: Avon Books (1979)
Language: English
ISBN: 0380475146

uproar
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Nebraska, United States
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Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 03:52 PM UTC
Thank you for your guidance--actually, I have "The Red Baron's Last Flight" and read "Who Killed the Red Baron?" years ago as a child....a bit of a fascination even then.

Really though.....I thought that the German Air Force had actually dozens of blood-red triplanes in the sky, that was all they had, a full year before they were believed to have actually been developed! Didn't you see "Flyboys"??? lol

I do believe Herr von Richthofen actually crashed in a sweet potato field, correct? I think I did see a 1:1 scale diorama from a museum online once. . .
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 03:54 PM UTC
There are others out there but I cannot recommend them for various reasons.
As for a model to compare to, Here are a couple shots of one modeler's opinions.
http://wwimodeler.com/esc/fok/dio/mvr-prang.html
uproar
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Nebraska, United States
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Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 04:13 PM UTC
Wow, thanks--that is excellent! Actually, though, although I know that only one bullet is known to have struck Richthofen, entering below his right axilla, tearing through the heart and lungs, and exiting a bit below the left nipple, I wasn't so sure about the assertion that no other bullet damage was present on the Triplane itself. A considerable number of people were shooting at Richthofen that day, several with machine gun fire--it just seems highly unlikely that only one well-placed projectile struck it's intended target, and did so with such fatal precision, particular since the target was moving with a good deal of speed. I do concur that it is also highly unlikely that his crash-landing would have been so tidy had he been killed instantly....but I suspect he didn't last longer than about 30 seconds or so after the bullet struck him.
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 05:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Wow, thanks--that is excellent! Actually, though, although I know that only one bullet is known to have struck Richthofen, entering below his right axilla, tearing through the heart . . .it just seems highly unlikely that only one well-placed projectile struck it's intended target. I do concur that it is also highly unlikely that his crash-landing would have been so tidy had he been killed instantly....but I suspect he didn't last longer than about 30 seconds or so after the bullet struck him.



Actually reading original reports you will find he had several wounds in his legs. Some people think he was not struck fatally until after he hit the ground. Though I know in many circles it is heresy.
wizard179
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New South Wales, Australia
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Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 08:50 PM UTC
This a topic that has interested me since I was at school. My year 7 French teacher, who was quite advanced in years, had told us the story that his father was one of the Australian ground troops that got to the plane first. He even said that he had a piece of the plane fabric but we could never convince him to bring it in... would still love to see it.

excellent diorama, thanks for sharing.

Cheers
Wiz
CaptainA
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Monday, December 03, 2007 - 09:17 AM UTC
About 40 years ago I read a very good account of the crash. My memories tell me the troops were wary at first and might have used some small artillery type weapons. Then they descended upon the Fokker and began a frenzy of souvenier hunting.

Good luck. I actually have considered doing the same diorama and have started looking for the book on his death.

What scale?
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, December 03, 2007 - 04:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text

About 40 years ago I read a very good account of the crash. My memories tell me the troops were wary at first and might have used some small artillery type weapons. Then they descended upon the Fokker and began a frenzy of souvenier hunting.



Not quite correct. Several Austrailian infantry men went out to capture the pilot but found him dead at this time. The crashed Fokker Dr.I 425/17 was in the open and the Germans laid down a barrage of fire around the machine. So they went back to their cover / protected areas. When the Germans quit or at least came to a pause in the barrage the Austrailians sent a man out to attach a rope to the machine and they drug it to a safe area. The diorama above is inaccuarte in several respects.

1. It poses the machine where it crashed but the pilot is under a tarp at this scene. This didn't happen til the machine was dragged away from the crash.

2. in all probability the upper longerons of the machine were cut with a hack saw in order to extract the pilot. The seat was partially broken away from the supports in the crash. It would have been too cumbersome and exposing for someone to straddle the turtledeck and attempt to pull the corpse out.

3. The souveniering of the airframe was held back by the presence of an Intelligence officer that had arrived very shortly after the first two soldiers had returned from the first foray to the crashed triplane. Some souveniering may have been done in the field but in a large sense the it happened at the RAF airfield where the machine was brought to and there it was picked over and inspected. I have several images of this.


Quoted Text

What scale?



The diorama above is 1/48 scale, using the DML Fokker Dr.I
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