The Twilight Zone of modeling and real aircraft
Generally speaking there are several reasons we see differences between kits and airframes from WWI. As Dan San Abbott has said the real deals were made on an assembly line.

For real aircraft We know there were general drawings and these were often later redesigned for structural concerns, engine variations and etc.

For models, they are made from the best information(?)available to the kit design team. In recent years even certain Datafile drawings have been called into question. The top WWI manufacturers Roden and Eduard use these as a normal part of their design process.

The differences are good to know. If you have a certain amount of AMS this enables you to build a more detailed version of a specific model type. Lets face it, cutting out pulley inspection ports, detailing the interiors then covering them in clear plastic shows an unusual amount of determination and spirit. I myself have just finished extending a kit fuselage by 5/32 of an inch to do a better build closer to the original.

Take for instance the Datafile on the Fokker D.VI checkout the last pages. The factory drawings and the post war archive information show distinctive differences in the over all dimensions of just this type. Both originating from the same factory. Then you get the misinformation that because the Fokker Dr.I and the Fokker D.VI are similar in appearance that they came from the same drawings. Make no mistake, while there are physical similarities between the Fokker company’s Dr.I and the D.VI, one was not developed from the other. Like any engineering concern the Fokker designers had formulas that they used for aircraft specifications, especially concerning the type and weight of an installed motor in an airframe. The closest similarity to the D.VI (rotary) is the D.VII (inline six.) Fokker built one for type testing in the ‘low altitude operations class’ and one for ‘higher altitude operations class.’ Now this is just a relatively minor aircraft type with a low number production of airframes.

Take for instance the Fokker Dr.I rudder. There are at least two profile variations. But no one has picked up on that in the kit manufacturers realm. Kit manufacturers simplify their process thus leaving room for the modeler to ply their skills.

But you can not be successful in in understanding these issues without references. Many modelers would rather come to a community forum to get their answers and save themselves to cost of these references. Relying on the generousity of others is good upto a point. But everyone has time constraints and if you use modeling as a hobby your time at the desk where the glue hit the plastic, is at a premium.

The point is Good References make the difference. As an illustration I mentioned the Fokker D.VI Datafile earlier here. But if I don't post the actual information you still don't have what you were looking for. Those people that have the reference can easily follow through.

Even if you have held a piece of lozenge fabric in your hands do you know what you have? Without good references to show you the research of others you can not determine what it is, where it was used, How it was applied, etc etc.

The search engine.
I wish it were easier to use for the neophyte. Being an old bone here I can usually find and quote what I need to. But you really have to want it to sit down and spend 20 minutes searching. Some think it is easier to simply apologize and ask up front. If you were to dig into the subject of "Lozenge" on the internet, Gadzooks and Hot Marimba! We are talking hundreds of responses. These reflect the whole run of neophytes & experts quoting experts and neophytes & experts learning what they did not know and modifiying their view points.

For the modeler (and that is what this thread is about) you have to choose just how deep you want to go in a subject. Counting the cost does not just involve the kit and building supplies anymore. As always respectful comments and opinions are welcome.

Before I found this site I didn't do much reading on the subjects I was building . My ref's library was nil . But from asking questions and getting answer another question would come to mind . The hunt was on .......Look on the net and read other post on subjects . Add many links to my favorites . I'm getting more and more books .I have 10 books in my Ref's library now . So now I won't have to ask so many questions and drive you guys nuts. How you guys put up with me for this long ...........................
Not sure on how far of level of detail I will fall into , but it's nice to read the history of the aircraft and the Men who flew them . That's one thing that I like about this hobby , always learning some new info or tip !

We were all there once dear Terri. . .and besides you add a bit of class to the joint!

Yep, She's a real Lady that Terri!

Cheers,

Hugh

I realy started to think about sending my girfriend(how do you say? "Probable wife in future" or something was it?) to her hometown to hang around. She realy likes WW1 planes but even a lazier modeler than me:} Class? Definately. where ever there is too much male it starts to get too....boyish.:] Everywhere needs some female sometimes(up to a dose of course:P)

When it comes to references I am very lucky. Two years ago another WW1 builder came to live in my town. We get along very very well, actually he became a very good friend. But what made life easy for me: he's got all the Datafiles, and doesn't mind lending 'm to me. Not only datafiles, but plenty of other references (his brain included) and nicely made models.

Greetings, Nico

Thanks Stephen and Hugh for your kind words !
Nico , I'm so jealous right now . You are very lucky indeed . Good for you ! funny on how some things work out when you least expect it .

I usually spend as much time researching as building, if not more. The big problem is trying to figure out what references are correct. Take for instance the Fokker streak camo. We know how it was done, but that looks nothing like the pictures. So we try to match the pictures. Then there is the whole "was it yellow or olive green?" thing. So I like to temper my research with educated opinions. That is why I park my fanny here each night.

At the beginning of the 21st century we all face two important questions: (1) How to fully enjoy and benefit from the exciting possibilities resulting from technology and change. (2) How to deal with certain serious difficulties and problems which result from these changes. As a result Modeling Psychology, the study of human personality, thought process and behavior and its creative oulets hold an increasing benefit to all.

The significant historical figure, Napolean I is paraphrased as saying; '...there are only two subjects that motivate anything with a brain, interest and fear.'

Essentially it is the creative eb and flow that connects us to the past, present and future. While most contemporary subjects are streamline with internal details the average WWI aircraft is usually very busy in its outward appearance and therefore more stimulating to the person of high intelligence.

The corollary is that a scale depiction of an aircraft of 1914-18 vintage is more appealing to someone with a high degree of creativity than the average IPMS Nationals judge. Who (not surprisingly) very seldom or almost never builds a model.

1. Motivation and Creativity puts us into the first phase of Model building. - 'Dicta Ira' '...have fun!' WWI Modeling Page 1997.
2. The desire to please ourselves is the initial and primary goal.
a. Characterized by parts being pulled from the trees and the resulting jagged sprue ends remaining and apparant even at the completion of building.
b. Also painting a completed model is considered to be a deterant to building. So often the kit is displayed bare factory pigmented plastic.
c. Another characteristic is the slightly off register decals that due to the unpainted scheme are guess-timated for their approximate positioning.

3. The desire to interest and please others is the next step.
a. This step if unchecked can lead one to the onset of the malady know in the Modeling community as Advanced Modeling Syndrome (AMS.)
b. If carefully monitored this can be an exercise in building one's character and dexterity.
c. It is at this stage that the modeler often starts attending local Modeling clubs or contests.
d. Painting becomes apart of the build in general. Since the exposure is a direct attribute ofthe modeling club it is seen as a natural progression.
e. Sanding smooth said sprue attachments and seam lines becomes more a practice in 'cleaning up the overall appearance of the build.'
f. Next comes the concern of overall scale effect in the build. (One can get dangerously close to the onset of serious AMS here.)
g. Often this is where WWI modelers begin their fascination with simulating rigging and (heaven forbid) turnbuckles on aircraft kits.
4. The desire to compete and have the artifact that you have crafted viewed and judged is the next step.
a. Here, repeated bad experiences can affect the builder to the point that they can often hurl the completed build against the furthest basement wall with their best knuckle pitch.
b. Immediate success on the local level is often the garantee that you'll hold an office in the coming club elections.
c. Success on the Continental or National level will often include a local level office and a judges responsibility in future contests.
d. Here the average modeler will forego building and ;
1. Begin a business making Brass etch, resin, white metal or vacuform kits and detail pieces.
2. Begin publishing articles on 'How To' subjects.
3. Start collecting.
4. Become an IPMS Nationals Judge. Losing not only their interest in building but often turning off their objectivity node at the base of their brain as well. This still a point of debate in many Modeling Circles.

Pop Quiz: What is the difference between personal and Social needs?

I can still remember when I used to model for fun
Cheers,

Hugh

It still is Hugh, FUN, and just fun

Larsa Q

That is why we do this. The core of modeling should be enjoyment.

Question:

Is modeling about,

1. Being historically correct?
2. Improving your skills for more satisfaction?
3. Just having fun?
4. All of the above?
5. Some of the above?

To me, having fun is the single most important aspect of modelling, when modelling is no longer fun that is when I will give it up. I have always thoroughly enjoyed modelling and I hope I always will, the satisfaction I experience from seeing a finished model is so fulfilling. I love to show off my models, not to get a pat on the back but for the sheer pleasure I get from sharing with others. I'm proud of what I do and when I'm proud I'm happy, I had fun doing it.

Historically correct???? This could quite easily open up a can of worms, historically correct as far as colours and markings is quite easy to duplicate, but historically correct as far as scale accuracy and detail is another thing.
No matter how good a modeller a person is it is impossible to replicate a real aeroplane in scale, every nut, bolt and screw would have to be depicted, not only in it's correct location but also to exact scale. Every piece of rigging, wiring, plumbing and all fittings would also have to be scaled to precise measurements, even the thickness of fabric and the metal for cowlings would face the same treatment. The thickness of the paint that is applied to models if scaled up to full size would be enormous, way out of scale. Where do you draw the line as far as accuracy of scale goes?, there are plenty of PE and resin accessories available to enhance the kit, there are a lot of very capable modellers who have the ability to manufacture miniature parts, but the exacting skills and technology required to produce an item in exact dimensional scale is still not available,yet. To the average or even to the above average modeller would the wingspan of a model that is 1/64th of an inch too big make that much of a difference to the overall look of the model? I have seen many models built OOB and they make up to be magnificent looking models, then there are those who add every imagineable accessory available and they also build up to be magnificent models, but none of them are 100% dead accurate.
My aim in building a WW1 aeroplane is to have a model that looks like the real thing when viewed from about a foot away, if it looks real, well, that's close enough for me. I'm not a rivet counter, I can't see the point, near enough is good enough.

I think we all strive to be the best modeller we possibly can, each time we start a new kit we want it to be just that little bit better than the last one. My skills have, in my eyes, improved tremendously over the last 12 months, I didn't even own an airbrush until a year ago, my tool box consisted of a hobby knife, a few paints and a brush. By reading the threads and looking at the photos of modellers builds I have learnt a lot, yes, there are lots of books out there but these threads and other modelling sites are a great source of information. There is a wealth of knowledge within the minds of these modellers and most are willing to share their skills and techniques throughout the modelling community. I'm learning new tricks every day and each one I feel is improving my modelling outcome, I think it is a hobby where we are constantly learning.

I love modelling, I have enormous amounts of fun doing what I love, not everyone likes my models but who cares, I do it because I want to, and I build my models the way I do because that is the way I like them.

Des.

http://www.ww1aircraftmodels.com

If the rest of you agree, then the common thread for( I suspect) all of us, is learning about the subject matter and sharing ways to apply what we have learned. This improves the community. Somewhere along the way we even become friends.

I rediscovered the hobby through the Internet after many years of absence .
Beside the quality of my builds, this experience really changed my way of modelling: before I loved it for the satisfaction that gave me the build, after I feel that my builds are useless if not shared with the fellow modellers I have found here.

In my opinion, at the end of the day, we are all traveling on the same mountain road: it is not important to reach the summit, but to enjoy the climb to get there. And on the way who is forward can advise who is back on where it is safer to step and it is a beauty just to see others reaching new hights knowing the will then lend a hand to help and ease our own a way.

Ok, I am getting carried away...

Ciao
Edo

Very well said Edo

Des.

Agreed Edo, well spoken.