Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
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WNW GB 2009 - 10 LVG C.VI Carl
CaptainA
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Posted: Monday, September 21, 2009 - 05:19 AM UTC
I decided to build the LVG as a first entry.
CaptainA
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 01:05 PM UTC
I have been studying the instructions for this kit. As has been stated in just about every review, they are fantastic. It looks like it will be a very rewarding build.
My wife likes the first profile. The prototype. She likes the Mauve / green camo wings. I can't bear the thought of building this kit, and allowing all that lozenge to go to waste. I will probably do scheme C, D, E, or F. I am looking forward to seeing all that wood grain. I am not looking forward to doing all that wood grain. I think the checkerboard scheme (D), has been the most often modeled subject, so I probably wont do it. If anybody would like to chime in and give me their opinion on which one they would like me to do, I would love to get your assistance.
I have not started the kit yet, but I will probably start gluing some walnut and maple together tomorrow for a hand-carved propeller. The sprues might come out of their protective bags so the plastic can get a nice bath. I usually don't wash the sprues, so I have no idea what to clean them with.
Love the ribbon.
My wife likes the first profile. The prototype. She likes the Mauve / green camo wings. I can't bear the thought of building this kit, and allowing all that lozenge to go to waste. I will probably do scheme C, D, E, or F. I am looking forward to seeing all that wood grain. I am not looking forward to doing all that wood grain. I think the checkerboard scheme (D), has been the most often modeled subject, so I probably wont do it. If anybody would like to chime in and give me their opinion on which one they would like me to do, I would love to get your assistance.
I have not started the kit yet, but I will probably start gluing some walnut and maple together tomorrow for a hand-carved propeller. The sprues might come out of their protective bags so the plastic can get a nice bath. I usually don't wash the sprues, so I have no idea what to clean them with.
Love the ribbon.
Kornbeef
Joined: November 06, 2005
KitMaker: 1,667 posts
AeroScale: 1,551 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 09:09 PM UTC
Carl, yes its a beautiful kit....one word of warning on the schemes, I think the decals are slightly out scalewise in some cases...I remember Mark (guitarlute saying the checkerboards were a little large and I found the zigzag band slightly too small to fit where ref pics show it.
I have had similar size issues with the SE5a too where roundels and stripes were to big/small and had to work around or accept.
she looks good OOB but there is a lot of extra's you can add and detail can be corrected but all in all a beautifully crafted kit.....tolerences so fine and neat you have to watch your paint
Over on the airodrome someone has gone to extreme lengths..
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/models/42141-slow-wingnut-wings-lvg-build.html
Keith
I have had similar size issues with the SE5a too where roundels and stripes were to big/small and had to work around or accept.
she looks good OOB but there is a lot of extra's you can add and detail can be corrected but all in all a beautifully crafted kit.....tolerences so fine and neat you have to watch your paint
Over on the airodrome someone has gone to extreme lengths..
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/models/42141-slow-wingnut-wings-lvg-build.html
Keith
CaptainA
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 11:31 AM UTC
I checked the link. Thanks. Did you have any of the decal wrinkling problems on your builds? I cant understand how future would wrinkle the lozenge. It has me a little worried.
thegirl
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 6,743 posts
AeroScale: 6,151 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 11:43 AM UTC
Can't recall what the profiles are , but it would be nice to see one done up differently
For washing the plastic , or giving them a bath ! Just use a mid dish soap .
For washing the plastic , or giving them a bath ! Just use a mid dish soap .
Kornbeef
Joined: November 06, 2005
KitMaker: 1,667 posts
AeroScale: 1,551 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 07:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I checked the link. Thanks. Did you have any of the decal wrinkling problems on your builds? I cant understand how future would wrinkle the lozenge. It has me a little worried.
I had no wrinkling problem... I use Klear though, cant get future in the UK...though I did read that the new Klear has been changed and has issues so tread carefully. Just note too that theres only a little spare loz left over. One thing though is is that for me at least it didnt adhere and handle too well and I took an age taping ribs.
Kitboy
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 258 posts
AeroScale: 256 posts
Posted: Friday, September 25, 2009 - 03:02 AM UTC
I got one too, and I have spent many hours going through the parts and instructions with a happy face. Well first it's the SE5a of course, but this one will certainly be done for the groupbuild.
Cheers, Nico
Cheers, Nico
CaptainA
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Posted: Friday, September 25, 2009 - 11:30 AM UTC
It is all washed up and is currently drying, awaiting the kick-off in five days. I decided to do profile F. It is the Eleynor / Mia aircraft. I chose it because it is a good looking aircraft with lots of wood and lozenge. It is not real showy, but was obviously a much beloved aircraft of Lt. Weymar and Lt. Haselhoff. From the pictures of this aircraft, it does not look like it has a two-tone prop. Any thoughts on that good folk?
CaptainA
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Posted: Monday, September 28, 2009 - 12:12 PM UTC
Three days to kick-off and like many other builders, I am trying to find some 1/32 gun jackets. I thought I had some, but all I could find were 1/48th. If somebody out there could do some PE Parabellum jackets, they would be very, very popular. Any ideas would be welcome.
I am still studying the instructions. I would like to find areas where I could add some extra detail. These kits are so well done, there is not really much hope for those afflicted with AMS. Maybe Stephen will need to add a modeling law. Perhaps, When an almost perfect kit is finally put into production, the one part it lacks, will be the one part that is no longer available in the aftermarket.
Still, I did decide to try one obvious thing that I have not seen tried on any of the other builds of this kit. But you will have to follow the thread to find out what it is.
Dear Eduard, we need MG Jackets for the masses. Must we start a write in campaign?
I am still studying the instructions. I would like to find areas where I could add some extra detail. These kits are so well done, there is not really much hope for those afflicted with AMS. Maybe Stephen will need to add a modeling law. Perhaps, When an almost perfect kit is finally put into production, the one part it lacks, will be the one part that is no longer available in the aftermarket.
Still, I did decide to try one obvious thing that I have not seen tried on any of the other builds of this kit. But you will have to follow the thread to find out what it is.Dear Eduard, we need MG Jackets for the masses. Must we start a write in campaign?
One-Oh-Four
Joined: September 30, 2008
KitMaker: 11 posts
AeroScale: 10 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 10:17 PM UTC
I thought Tom's Modelworks has them?
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 10:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I thought Tom's Modelworks has them?
Tom's is closing. Whatever you can find on the market thats all there is. Tom Harrison passed away recently. Lung Cancer. Now there is a man for our hall of fame.
One-Oh-Four
Joined: September 30, 2008
KitMaker: 11 posts
AeroScale: 10 posts
Posted: Friday, October 02, 2009 - 05:36 AM UTC
Oh! I didn't know that! My condolances to his family!
One-Oh-Four
Joined: September 30, 2008
KitMaker: 11 posts
AeroScale: 10 posts
Posted: Friday, October 02, 2009 - 05:37 AM UTC
It seems that Karaya from Poland is also about to carry PE MG-jackets. I don't know if they're already on the website:
www.karaya.ceti.pl
www.karaya.ceti.pl
Torchy
#047
Joined: September 13, 2005
KitMaker: 2,016 posts
AeroScale: 475 posts
Posted: Friday, October 02, 2009 - 08:16 AM UTC
Hi all
I had this Email last week from Toms Modelworks
". . .Hello Andy, my name is Angie and I'm Tom's daughter. We are unable to take any orders at this time. The business has been temproarily shut down because of my dad's passing back in February. I am working on the plans to have the business re-open. If you could, please hold onto your order and keep checking the web site for any updates as to when the business wil be ready to take orders.
Thank you for you patience and continued interest in my dad's business.
Angie. . ."
hth
Andy
"
I had this Email last week from Toms Modelworks
". . .Hello Andy, my name is Angie and I'm Tom's daughter. We are unable to take any orders at this time. The business has been temproarily shut down because of my dad's passing back in February. I am working on the plans to have the business re-open. If you could, please hold onto your order and keep checking the web site for any updates as to when the business wil be ready to take orders.
Thank you for you patience and continued interest in my dad's business.
Angie. . ."
hth
Andy
"
CaptainA
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Posted: Friday, October 02, 2009 - 09:32 AM UTC
Everything got primed yesterday. This morning I gave the interior and some of the exterior a shot of tan. It will be sitting and drying for a week while I am out enjoying the end of the golf season. There is a lot of scale wood to duplicate on this one, and I haven't decided how I am going to do it yet. I might try my old method seen here.
https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/forums/102721#848990
I don't know how to attach a link but the thing that shows up will probably get you there.
I will do it a little bit on the lighter side as that one came out a bit dark. I do believe Brad got just the right shade on his though. How ever I do it, it will probably take a few weeks to do all the painting. Before I start, I am going to the Home Depot with a camera to take some pictures of birch plywood. I will try real hard to duplicate that.
https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/forums/102721#848990
I don't know how to attach a link but the thing that shows up will probably get you there.
I will do it a little bit on the lighter side as that one came out a bit dark. I do believe Brad got just the right shade on his though. How ever I do it, it will probably take a few weeks to do all the painting. Before I start, I am going to the Home Depot with a camera to take some pictures of birch plywood. I will try real hard to duplicate that.
Jamo_kiwi
Joined: November 04, 2008
KitMaker: 123 posts
AeroScale: 122 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 07:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Carl, yes its a beautiful kit....one word of warning on the schemes, I think the decals are slightly out scalewise in some cases...I remember Mark (guitarlute saying the checkerboards were a little large and I found the zigzag band slightly too small to fit where ref pics show it.
I have had similar size issues with the SE5a too where roundels and stripes were to big/small and had to work around or accept.
she looks good OOB but there is a lot of extra's you can add and detail can be corrected but all in all a beautifully crafted kit.....tolerences so fine and neat you have to watch your paint
Over on the airodrome someone has gone to extreme lengths..
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/models/42141-slow-wingnut-wings-lvg-build.html
Keith
Hi Keith
That 'somebody' was me. I am joining in the WNW Group Build over here at Aeroscale with the Bristol F2B. I'm happy to help out if you have any questions. I ended up doing an LVG that used the Parabellum LMG14/17 thin barrel so I have a spare Tom's Modelworks PE barrel if you are interested. It has been rolled, painted and attached to the plastic gun. I think I did an OK job of it. Happy to sell it to you for what it cost me.
Happy Modelling
James
CaptainA
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 12:20 PM UTC
Did the jacket fit the length of the parabellum? I compared the jacket I had to the gun (still on the sprue) and it seemed to be considerably short.
Did you figure out what caused the lozenge to wrinkle?
Did you figure out what caused the lozenge to wrinkle?
Jamo_kiwi
Joined: November 04, 2008
KitMaker: 123 posts
AeroScale: 122 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 12:40 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Did the jacket fit the length of the parabellum? I compared the jacket I had to the gun (still on the sprue) and it seemed to be considerably short.
Did you figure out what caused the lozenge to wrinkle?
Hi Carl
Yes I did notice the PE barrel was a bit shorter than the plastic version. But which is correct? When I get home I can take a comparison photo and post it for you to see.
As far as the decal wrinking goes, I brush paint, and by not filling the brush so much it seemed to overcome the problem. I had an appropriately painted undercoat, then a Klear coat underneath (Klear in NZ is the same as Future in the US). Maybe if I had waited longer than just overnight the decals might have dried out a bit more, and perhaps that would have helped. The loz decals seemed very absorbent, much more so than the other LVG decal sheet.
Did you know that the artwork for Eleynor is incorrect in the WNW instructions? It should have the red/brown finish like version E. Richard Alexander confirmed this to me at our local IPMS club. Richard's view on the red/brown finish is that it was *painted* on top of the plywood not stained. Have a look at the colourised photo of Eleynor on the WNW website to see what he means. That is consistent with the colour callout from the instructions which is 'l' Matt Rust according to page 1 of the instructions.
Happy Modelling
James
CaptainA
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Posted: Friday, October 09, 2009 - 01:44 AM UTC
Once again, thanks. I would have done the light wood color.
Jamo_kiwi
Joined: November 04, 2008
KitMaker: 123 posts
AeroScale: 122 posts
Posted: Friday, October 09, 2009 - 09:50 AM UTC
Here is a photo of the kit Parabellum MG compared with the Toms Modelworks PE cooling barrel fitted to the kit stock. The PE cooling barrel is about 17mm long compared to the kit's 21mm long. Which is correct? I'm inclined to think the WNW part is correct because they have photos of the real gun in the instructions. I'll check my references.
Certainly the PE version looks better. It would be a bit of work to hollow out the kit part, but that could be another option.
I have compared the kit part with Toms Modelworks PE barrel, repro gun from The Vintage Aviator and a scale drawing by Harry Woodman from Scale Models Feb 1976. (I had to flip the repro gun photo which is why the magazine looks like its on the wrong way round).
The result is not completely clear cut but suggests the kit part may be too long:
The same issue is present with the thinner Parabellum barrel also included in the Toms Modelworks set
Check out The Vintage Aviator website for some great photos of reproduction machine guns:
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects/reproduction-guns/gun-gallery
Certainly the PE version looks better. It would be a bit of work to hollow out the kit part, but that could be another option.
I have compared the kit part with Toms Modelworks PE barrel, repro gun from The Vintage Aviator and a scale drawing by Harry Woodman from Scale Models Feb 1976. (I had to flip the repro gun photo which is why the magazine looks like its on the wrong way round).
The result is not completely clear cut but suggests the kit part may be too long:
The same issue is present with the thinner Parabellum barrel also included in the Toms Modelworks set
Check out The Vintage Aviator website for some great photos of reproduction machine guns:
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects/reproduction-guns/gun-gallery
CaptainA
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 01:15 AM UTC
I like the look of the long barrel, but the shorter barrel does look more correct. I guess my Tom's set will work with a little barrel surgery. Been a while since I took a hack saw to the barrel of a shoulder fired weapon.
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 06:06 AM UTC
Excellent support info James!
CaptainA
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 10:35 AM UTC
Well folks, I am back home after another fun vacation. So it is back to work. I got some wood glued up for the prop. The carving job was not very good, so I will try a second time. Luckily, I glued up two sets of laminations. It is hard to get that long slender look, but I did get some practice carving. Since I have done this before, I knew I would probably screw up the first try. And I was right. So I will try again in the morning. I also experimented with some different paint mixes to get the red-brown varnish represented correctly. I think I got close with a mix of military brown and British crimson. I will spray some later to see how it looks. But, after 11 hours in a car yesterday, it might also wait until tomorrow. I also got the lower engine halves glue together. So there is no progress worthy of pictures. But I hope to have something to show tomorrow evening.
So the question of the day is, Would the interior be red-brown like the exterior or honey colored?
So the question of the day is, Would the interior be red-brown like the exterior or honey colored?
Jamo_kiwi
Joined: November 04, 2008
KitMaker: 123 posts
AeroScale: 122 posts
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 01:01 PM UTC
Quoted Text
. . . So the question of the day is, Would the interior be red-brown like the exterior or honey colored?
My understanding of the red/brown finish was that it was an attempt to tone-down the glossy bright varnished ply from a camo viewpoint. No need to tone-down the interior I would think. Besides, the varnished ply interior would look nice!
Happy Modelling
James
CaptainA
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 02:17 PM UTC
I was thinking the darker color might be an attempt to preserve the wood. That would explain the interior floor being dark on the Shuttleworth aircraft, and the rest of the interior being done in the honey color. That is what I wanted to do with mine. It looked good on yours. So what is your take on the painting of the cooling jackets on the engine? The instructions and some museum pictures have them being partially painted red or blue. Was that something that was done to enhance the museum pieces, or was it actually found on flying examples?
You know the more answers you provide, the more questions I will ask. I am like a three year old kid that way. I am currently trying to come up with some more questions.
You are a great help, Jamo.
You know the more answers you provide, the more questions I will ask. I am like a three year old kid that way.
I am currently trying to come up with some more questions.You are a great help, Jamo.
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