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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Techmod 1:48 Friedrchshafen FF-33e
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 07:42 PM UTC
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 07:52 PM UTC
Here is a bit of fun on history on the Wolf cub. ( "Wölfchen ")
click here.
". . .The second ship to carry this name was a Hansa Line Freighter, having a gross tonnage of 5,809 tons, she had launched as Watchfels, but now was to be fitted out as a Raider, renamed Wolf.
Wolf 1 has already been covered in (another portion of) this work.
The new Wolf became one of the most successful German Armed Merchant Ships of WW1.
The aim of ships of the Royal Navy was to bottle up the exit and return points that had to be negotiated by Raiders in breaking out of their home port, and then trying to return home after a long, arduous and often boring raiding cruise.
Wolf eluded RN patrols on exiting from Germany, and then managed to do it again by sailing safely home, no mean achievement.
She was fitted out for her role as an Armed Merchant Ship with a formidible armament, 6 by 15cm. guns, 1 by 10.5 cm. weapon, and some lesser calibre guns, 4 torpedo tubes were added, and then some 400 mines were loaded onboard.
For a WW1 Armed Merchant Ship the provision of a Freidrichshafen FF.33e two seater seaplane named Wolfchen (Wolfcub) by the crew, was an innovation, it was designed to provide Wolf's Captain with a broader horizon over which to locate potential victims, so he might place his ship in a favourable position to intercept. Two seaplane pilots, Leutnant z.S.d.R. Matthaus Stein, and Oberflugmeister Paul Fabeck were added to the Raider's crew list.
This plane after being hoisted onboard, was dismantled, and then hidden on deck beneath a tarpaulin, but disaster struck when Wolf's guns were test fired, blast crushing the seaplane's wings, forcing the crew to unload them and despatch them to a local arifield for ememgency repairs.
When these wings arrived back onboard the Raider, for safety they were stowed in No. 4 hold, whilst the body of this seaplane was stowed on the poop in a deck house, constructed for that special role. . ."
I remember reading "Cruise of the the Raider Wolf" while serving my military duty in Germany on a Nuke missle site.
click here.
". . .The second ship to carry this name was a Hansa Line Freighter, having a gross tonnage of 5,809 tons, she had launched as Watchfels, but now was to be fitted out as a Raider, renamed Wolf.
Wolf 1 has already been covered in (another portion of) this work.
The new Wolf became one of the most successful German Armed Merchant Ships of WW1.
The aim of ships of the Royal Navy was to bottle up the exit and return points that had to be negotiated by Raiders in breaking out of their home port, and then trying to return home after a long, arduous and often boring raiding cruise.
Wolf eluded RN patrols on exiting from Germany, and then managed to do it again by sailing safely home, no mean achievement.
She was fitted out for her role as an Armed Merchant Ship with a formidible armament, 6 by 15cm. guns, 1 by 10.5 cm. weapon, and some lesser calibre guns, 4 torpedo tubes were added, and then some 400 mines were loaded onboard.
For a WW1 Armed Merchant Ship the provision of a Freidrichshafen FF.33e two seater seaplane named Wolfchen (Wolfcub) by the crew, was an innovation, it was designed to provide Wolf's Captain with a broader horizon over which to locate potential victims, so he might place his ship in a favourable position to intercept. Two seaplane pilots, Leutnant z.S.d.R. Matthaus Stein, and Oberflugmeister Paul Fabeck were added to the Raider's crew list.
This plane after being hoisted onboard, was dismantled, and then hidden on deck beneath a tarpaulin, but disaster struck when Wolf's guns were test fired, blast crushing the seaplane's wings, forcing the crew to unload them and despatch them to a local arifield for ememgency repairs.
When these wings arrived back onboard the Raider, for safety they were stowed in No. 4 hold, whilst the body of this seaplane was stowed on the poop in a deck house, constructed for that special role. . ."
I remember reading "Cruise of the the Raider Wolf" while serving my military duty in Germany on a Nuke missle site.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 05:43 PM UTC
These kits are expected to be released as of Oct. 15, 2009. I just preordered 2 kits.
BurlBurlingame
Hawaii, United States
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Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 10:08 PM UTC
I need to order one too. Wolfchen prowled in the Pacific! Do you order from Jadar?
Mecenas
Joined: December 23, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 10:26 PM UTC
Yes, it looks good and promising. Although Techmod specialises in decals they have strange habbit of releasing interesting models and not advertising them anywhere e.g. 1/35 T-70 or T-50 light tanks, Panzer II Luchs. Now they launch 1/48 airplane... I live in Poland and I have to get the news from a foreign website...
Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 11:02 PM UTC
Hi Michal
Well I have seen the sprues in Nuremberg in 2008 already ... so the kit is 2 years ready, but only now released .. lots of time to get to know about it
cheers
Steffen
Well I have seen the sprues in Nuremberg in 2008 already ... so the kit is 2 years ready, but only now released .. lots of time to get to know about it
cheers
Steffen
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, October 05, 2009 - 07:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I need to order one too. Wölfchen prowled in the Pacific! Do you order from Jadar?
Yes, Jadar has always been a reasonable place for me to pick up kits .
Click here.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, November 22, 2009 - 05:12 PM UTC
The review is progressing nicely but if you do get this kit I highly suggest you obtain a copy of the book I mentioned, life at sea for an early aviation unit . . . Talk about needing to keep your powder dry!
Louis
Bas-Rhin, France
Joined: May 21, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 01:40 AM UTC
Hi,
I'm reading into WS:
- P7 photo N°14 "above the pilot head (rear cockpit)".
- P25 Photo N°38 " an array of flare cartridge can be seen beside the observer's cockpit " front cockpit on the photo.
My english is not very good but I'm understanding that pilot is in the rear cockpit.
Is it OK ? (techmod put it on the front cockpit).
Regards
I'm reading into WS:
- P7 photo N°14 "above the pilot head (rear cockpit)".
- P25 Photo N°38 " an array of flare cartridge can be seen beside the observer's cockpit " front cockpit on the photo.
My english is not very good but I'm understanding that pilot is in the rear cockpit.
Is it OK ? (techmod put it on the front cockpit).
Regards
NickZour
Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: May 01, 2008
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Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 03:46 AM UTC
Looks like an easy and fast work
Very nice kit, but very dificult
Cheers Nick
Very nice kit, but very dificult
Cheers Nick
Louis
Bas-Rhin, France
Joined: May 21, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 04:24 AM UTC
from Yavor ( The aerodrum forum):
Data from British report about Bulgarian aeroplanes.
Quote:
* On "Friedrichshafen Seaplane, 1916 type" (FF.33E, Marine No.862) "Pilot's cockpit centre in line with trailing edge of bottom planes" [back]. "Observer's cockpit between planes" [front].
* On "Friedrichshafen seaplane, 1917 type" (FF.33L, Marine No.1271, W.Nr.500) "Pilot's cockpit between planes" [front], "centre of observer's cockpit in line with trailing edge of lower planes" [back].
Source: The National Archives (Kew) AIR 1/713/27/19
Data from British report about Bulgarian aeroplanes.
Quote:
* On "Friedrichshafen Seaplane, 1916 type" (FF.33E, Marine No.862) "Pilot's cockpit centre in line with trailing edge of bottom planes" [back]. "Observer's cockpit between planes" [front].
* On "Friedrichshafen seaplane, 1917 type" (FF.33L, Marine No.1271, W.Nr.500) "Pilot's cockpit between planes" [front], "centre of observer's cockpit in line with trailing edge of lower planes" [back].
Source: The National Archives (Kew) AIR 1/713/27/19
Louis
Bas-Rhin, France
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Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 09:58 AM UTC
The aircraft was piloted by Leutnant-flieger Matthaus Stein (left) and co-piloted by Oberflugmeister Paul Fabeck (right), also the mechanic
Paul Fabeck is here into the front cockpit and the pilot into the rear cockpit:
Perhaps everyone will have his turn to pilot plane.... or not.
Regards.
Paul Fabeck is here into the front cockpit and the pilot into the rear cockpit:
Perhaps everyone will have his turn to pilot plane.... or not.
Regards.
Louis
Bas-Rhin, France
Joined: May 21, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 02:21 AM UTC
More info from Yavor:
This is a description from 1919. The aeroplane was flown by French personnel. Some of the equipment was, possibly, removed.
This is a description from 1919. The aeroplane was flown by French personnel. Some of the equipment was, possibly, removed.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 04:38 AM UTC
Louis about your question concerning the cockpit placement . I may be able to provide some insight when I finish the kit review. I can say that in most cases on early German 2 seater production aircraft (pre 1917) the observer / officer did sit in the front cockpit. And the pilot (chauffeur) was an nco or private sat in the rear. It was only later with the development of gun rings and parabellums lightened for aviation work that the observer's cockpit was moved to the rear. The Luftstreitkrafte designation was "C" types. The German Navy had not such designations.
The radio transmitter was removed from FF 33e #814 "Wolf Cub" as it would not function and it saved fuel to do so. It was reinstalled when the "Wolf" and its "Cub" returned home. This was in the end of cruise scheme provided by Techmod.
The radio transmitter was removed from FF 33e #814 "Wolf Cub" as it would not function and it saved fuel to do so. It was reinstalled when the "Wolf" and its "Cub" returned home. This was in the end of cruise scheme provided by Techmod.
Mecenas
Joined: December 23, 2007
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Posted: Friday, November 27, 2009 - 08:27 PM UTC
I have asked Techmod a question via email about the cockpits but I'm still waiting for the answer. I'll wait till monday for the answer and then try to call them.
Louis
Bas-Rhin, France
Joined: May 21, 2006
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Posted: Friday, November 27, 2009 - 08:52 PM UTC
Hi Michal
I have asked Techmod a question via email about the cockpits 26 days ago!!!! (02 november).
I'm waiting.
Please Miss or Mister Techmod, answer!!!!
Regards.
I have asked Techmod a question via email about the cockpits 26 days ago!!!! (02 november).
I'm waiting.
Please Miss or Mister Techmod, answer!!!!
Regards.
Mecenas
Joined: December 23, 2007
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Posted: Friday, November 27, 2009 - 08:58 PM UTC
I spoke with them few day ago by telephone and the owner confessed he is not very good in english so it's a bit difficult for them to answer quickly emails written in english but he declared he answers all the email in polish as soon as possible. I wrote him yesterday so it's not a tragedy yet.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 07:19 AM UTC
Michal lives about 10K from the Techmod workshop. He has been keen to help us with these questions and I am most grateful for his help.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, November 30, 2009 - 08:23 AM UTC
We have our answer. Techmod got it right after all!
From the Datafile it is mentioned there were 2 types of the FF33e that were labeled either BFT or HFT.
On the BFT the reel was always under the front cockpit (left side) it had the radio and a bombing rack set up. so the observer sat in the front.
On the HFT the reel was always on the rear cockpit (left side.) Wölfchen was an HFT. This is a radio equipped machine with no internal bomb stowage. So the observer sat in the rear.
Then there are the types without any radio equipment that have no suffix at all.
From the Datafile it is mentioned there were 2 types of the FF33e that were labeled either BFT or HFT.
On the BFT the reel was always under the front cockpit (left side) it had the radio and a bombing rack set up. so the observer sat in the front.
On the HFT the reel was always on the rear cockpit (left side.) Wölfchen was an HFT. This is a radio equipped machine with no internal bomb stowage. So the observer sat in the rear.
Then there are the types without any radio equipment that have no suffix at all.
Louis
Bas-Rhin, France
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Posted: Monday, November 30, 2009 - 09:08 AM UTC
Thank you Stephen!!!
Mecenas
Joined: December 23, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 - 02:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Michal lives about 10K from the Techmod workshop. He has been keen to help us with these questions and I am most grateful for his help.
My pleasure Sir...
badwolf
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: November 16, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 - 04:54 AM UTC
Hi everyone, well my FF 33e came this morning, and looked at the box and said, bit small!
openned it up, everything in plastic bag sealed up, looked ok. Thought would check the kits size out to the plans in the Windsock Datefile no 73, and found each wing are 10mm short, top and bottom, according to the specifications on back page, FF 33e span upper was 16,80 for 717-724 Marine number and 16.75 for numbers 690 -694, 822-841, so wolfchen has the smaller wing, but its still too short, it means having to fit inserts in, or scratch build new wings. Please tell me it i am wrong here, i don't want to go down that road, it seems to be only the wings i can see, rest looks ok.
openned it up, everything in plastic bag sealed up, looked ok. Thought would check the kits size out to the plans in the Windsock Datefile no 73, and found each wing are 10mm short, top and bottom, according to the specifications on back page, FF 33e span upper was 16,80 for 717-724 Marine number and 16.75 for numbers 690 -694, 822-841, so wolfchen has the smaller wing, but its still too short, it means having to fit inserts in, or scratch build new wings. Please tell me it i am wrong here, i don't want to go down that road, it seems to be only the wings i can see, rest looks ok.
Posted: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 - 05:28 AM UTC
Hi Keith
What do Techmod state as the wingspan in their instructions? I just looked on Wikipedia and they say 16.60m (data from Thulinista Hornetiin), so there are obviously some discepencies about the dimensions somewhere...
All the best
Rowan
What do Techmod state as the wingspan in their instructions? I just looked on Wikipedia and they say 16.60m (data from Thulinista Hornetiin), so there are obviously some discepencies about the dimensions somewhere...
All the best
Rowan
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 - 07:22 AM UTC
The truth is that the Datafile drawings are off. Note 1 meter = 39.38 inches.
Note the actual length of the HTF in the 800 series is and over all length of the top wing is 16750mm and a half wing (since they were in a pair due to the trestle) was 8375mm. In 1:48 that is a real length of 174.45mm translating that to inches is 6.86 inches the actual measure of this kit's top half wing in 1:48 is 6 7/8 or 6.875 inches. Thats roughly .0600 thou of an inch difference.
Now the bottom wing over all length is 15500mm and a lower wing panel from tip to center line of the fuselage is 7750mm. In 1:48 that is 161.45mm. Translate that to inches and its 6.35 inches. The measure of the kit lower wing is 6 3/8 inches or 6.35 inches.
It looks like the Techmod people got it right!!!
Note the actual length of the HTF in the 800 series is and over all length of the top wing is 16750mm and a half wing (since they were in a pair due to the trestle) was 8375mm. In 1:48 that is a real length of 174.45mm translating that to inches is 6.86 inches the actual measure of this kit's top half wing in 1:48 is 6 7/8 or 6.875 inches. Thats roughly .0600 thou of an inch difference.
Now the bottom wing over all length is 15500mm and a lower wing panel from tip to center line of the fuselage is 7750mm. In 1:48 that is 161.45mm. Translate that to inches and its 6.35 inches. The measure of the kit lower wing is 6 3/8 inches or 6.35 inches.
It looks like the Techmod people got it right!!!
badwolf
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: November 16, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 - 10:55 AM UTC
Thanks for that Stephen, and i'am glad you said all that and not me, so if the kit is correct, and the drawnings incorrect, does that mean all the guys [ sorry and ladies] who model and use the Windsock Datafiles on other aircraft, have they then made mistakes if changing a kit to suit the drawnings, or is it just this Windsock issue!