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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Roden vs. WNW
edoardo
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Milano, Italy
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Posted: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 09:12 PM UTC
Hi all!
I was considering upgrading to 1:32 scale.
My first attempt was a complete failure, but I think I made great progresses so far (thak you guys!!) and I am more confident now!

I saw all your great build of WNW kits and I am really impressed... BUT... also costs has its importance and a WNW kit almost doubles a Roden one (here in Italy, at last). So, I know this is a too general a question, but can you point out the main differences bethween the two? Is the price difference worthy?
Thank you!

ciao
Edo
Mgunns
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 01:10 AM UTC
Hi Edo: I like the Roden Kits. They require a little more effort but not that much. I did their DR-1 in 1/32nd and the only fit areas were where the struts fit into the wings. A little trimming with an Exacto knife and it went fine. Their Nieuport 28 was a joy to build. The moldings aren't as crisp as the WNW kits and there is room for a little error vice the WNW kits. Here in the states, the cost is about the same for either a Roden or WNW kit, especially when you consider the cost. I would not slam Roden at all, they took a leap of faith in continuing 1/32nd WWI subjects. I think HobbyCraft started it with their Nieuport 17 and the Sopwith Camel. When you factor shipping in as part of the total cost of a kit, I think WNW come out at about the same value. WNW fills a void that the other kit manufacturers haven't tackled, and vice versa. I doubt you will see WNW do a Siemens Schuckert D-III or a Fokker D-VI. Roden's decals can be hit or miss. Right now there aren't a lot of alternative aftermarket markings for WWI subjects, however; Rowen Broadbent at PHEON is quickly filling that void with outstanding decal sets for 1/32nd and other scales for WWI subjects. I used to think that paying $80.00 for a plastic model was absurd, but with the dollar worth .10 cents, it is the nature of the market. Pop for a WNW kit and see what you think. Just my humble opinion on a bright sunny albeit frigid February morning.
Hope this helps.
RAGIII
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 02:07 AM UTC
EDO.
Just my opinion but the Roden kits are an excellent value if the price difference is as much as you say. That being said, they require a lot more work/ test fitting/ correction than the WNW kits seem to need. (I haven't built a WNW kit yet). We did a group build of some of the Roden kits back in 2008-2009. Look them up and you should get an idea of some of the work required to build the Roden kits. I would definantly hold off on the SPAD as this kit seems to have the worst fit(Engine and Cowling) of all of the Roden examples. Again just my opinion, others may vary.
RAGIII
gajouette
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 03:21 AM UTC
Edo,
IMHO the Roden kits are very good. Like most kits on the market they have their quirks (fit issues),but nothing that you wouldn't be able to handle. As of yet I don't have any Wingnut Wings kits in the stash. But from what I've read and seen on different forums concerning WNW I agree with Mark's comments.I've held off ordering any of the WNW kits for awhile waiting for the Fokker D.VII.I did finally order the LVG last week after falling in love with it and seeing all the excellent builds posted to the web.Looking forward to ordering a pair of Sopwith Pups in mid March.
As for the matter of cost you may want to conceder the lower cost 1/32 scale kits like the Hobbycraft SPAD XIII,Hobbycraft/Academy Nieuport17 or the retooled Camel for starters.Once you're comfortable in 1/32 scale then give a Roden or WNW kits a shot. Just my .2 cents
Regards,
Gregory Jouette
edoardo
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Milano, Italy
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Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 03:31 AM UTC
Thank you Mark and Rick!
very usefull information!

Roden kits are about 30€ here (which I think is about 40 Usd) and also considering delivery, it is still a big difference from WNW.

Anyway, I think you are right in sayng that both have their pluses and minuses... I'll have a look at the builds of the Roden kits here on the site before making any decision.
By the way, do Roden kits come with etched parts (i.e. as in Eduard profipack) or do you have to buy aftermarket products? That would be the real difference, since those frets are damn dear!

gajouette
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 03:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

EDO.
Just my opinion but the Roden kits are an excellent value if the price difference is as much as you say. That being said, they require a lot more work/ test fitting/ correction than the WNW kits seem to need. (I haven't built a WNW kit yet). We did a group build of some of the Roden kits back in 2008-2009. Look them up and you should get an idea of some of the work required to build the Roden kits. I would definantly hold off on the SPAD as this kit seems to have the worst fit(Engine and Cowling) of all of the Roden examples. Again just my opinion, others may vary.
RAGIII



Rick,
I have the SPAD VII kit unbuild as of yet.I've read the threads on the SPAD VII builds and would agree about the fit issue with the Hisso and cowling.I wonder through if Roden designed the kit with leaving it uncowled in mind.I really don't care for the idea of leaving it uncowled or whittling away the beautiful Hisso.Most likely I'll leave the Hisso out and save it for another project.What's your opinion on how best to handle this issue?
Regards,
Gregory Jouette
edoardo
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Milano, Italy
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Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 03:33 AM UTC
Hi Gregory!
I never heard of Hobbycraft or Academy WWI kits... I'll have a look!
Thank you for the tip!
Mgunns
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 03:53 AM UTC
Hi Edo: Here is a pic of my HobbyCraft 1/32nd SPAD XIII. There is no motor, just the valve cover covers. It was a fun build, parts fit nicely, two markings, reasonably priced, builds into a nice model, and those modelers with AMS will find it a good starting point.


Rowan Broadbent at PHEON Models may be coming out with additional markings for this a/c. It is realeased in two variants, one the international and the other with Rickenbacker and I think Nungesser's. Not sure on the last one.
RAGIII
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 06:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thank you Mark and Rick!
very usefull information!

Roden kits are about 30€ here (which I think is about 40 Usd) and also considering delivery, it is still a big difference from WNW.

Anyway, I think you are right in sayng that both have their pluses and minuses... I'll have a look at the builds of the Roden kits here on the site before making any decision.
By the way, do Roden kits come with etched parts (i.e. as in Eduard profipack) or do you have to buy aftermarket products? That would be the real difference, since those frets are damn dear!




The Roden kits do not come with PE. so you are right the difference would be made up in buying extras if you feel the need for Photo etch.
RAGIII
CaptainA
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 06:15 AM UTC
The only kit offered by both Roden and WNW is the SE 5a. So if you want to do that aircraft, the price really matters. Other than that, chose the aircraft you want to build. Here in the USA, the WNW kits are either $59.00 for the single seaters, or $79.00 for the two seaters. The Roden kits are between $45.00 for the older kits to about $60.00 for the newest ones, all single seaters. So the price is not really that much different. I have a Roden D.III on the work bench now. There is no WNW D.III, so the manufacturer is an easy choice. I have also started a WNW SE 5a, with a Roden SE 5a in the closet. The WNW kit is worth the extra $10.00. The Roden kit is also a good accurate representation for the money. If you want a beautiful LVG, Brisfit, or Junkers J.I, you only have one choice. So don't approach this purchase from the standpoint of how much it costs, approach it from the standpoint of "I really want to build a ...."

The Roden Albatros D.III is still one of the best value kits on the market. The WNW LVG is the single best kit I ever built.
thegirl
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 02:20 PM UTC
Hi Edo

Which is better ? Like the guy's have said . It depends on what you want to build . Carl is right Roden and WNW make the SE5a , Roden has this in two engine versions . The Hobbycraft kit's are great . Nice builds and for the ones who suffer from AMS can go just nut's on them . The Academy kit's are the same moulds as the Hobbycraft ones .

Part of Poland has PE sets out there for 32 scale aircraft They have one for the Pfalz D.III , SE5a , Fokker Dr.1 , Spad , Albatros D.III . Each set runs for about 20 bucks So if you add this into the cost it works to the smae as a WingNut kit . Eduard also does a PE set(s) For the Se5a . One just for the cockpit and the other one is a big one ! They also do one for the DH-2




So what'a going build ?
CMOT70
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 05:33 PM UTC
First of all, i'd happily build either Roden or WNW's kits. Like others have said before me, I care more about what subject i want to build and in what scale. And Roden have always had a knack of putting out subjects i really like over the years, but i'm really refering to scales other than 1/32- which i rearely build in. I think both companies are selling fine model kits, they are just different.

But it's funny how different "value" can be on opposite sides of the world. With the Aust $ on the climb again WNW kits at US$59 now equal about Aus$65...which is an absolute bargain for a 1/32 kit, hence why i hope WNW never change their direct distribution method. Seriously, why do we really need wholesalers anymore in the modern internet age? Modellers are too old and too set in their ways sometimes i think, instead of bemoaning the death of Hobby Shops, rejoice that technology means you don't really need them anymore (well okay except for model paints maybe, hard to get them through the post).

Roden kits on the other hand which start out cheaper, after arriving here 4 months after release (if we're lucky) and having wholesaler and hobby shop markups added, end up now with a price around A$75 to A$90 for their 1/32 kits. What hope do they have against WNW's more streamlined distribution method? But where Edo lives (and many other Europeans) the situation is the opposite it seems. Goes to show just how artificial prices really are.

Andrew
edoardo
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Milano, Italy
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Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2010 - 09:32 PM UTC
Very, very interesting discussion here!
Your posts stimulate more reflection and, after reading them, I have to agree that since this is an hobby and we have to amuse ourselves in doin' it, it is much more correct to focus on what is more rewarding in terms of overall experience than in terms of dollars or quantity of builds.

I mean: it is better to deal with one higly satisfying build than 2 so and so (even if 'so and so' means a high standard as well...)

Also, as Andrew said, it is frustrating to see how costs are still anchored in the middle ages with taxes, duties, regional mark ups and such that seems just out of place considering we are all sitting here at the pub and chatting to each other all over the world!

Anyway, as far as my choice, I am still undecided... those single seater coming out in March from WNW seems very interesting and also well priced indeed... but on the other side I don't want to overstash myself... but, as I learned, also this seems to be a pandemic virus!


ciao and have anice day!!
Edo
Mgunns
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Friday, February 26, 2010 - 03:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

... but on the other side I don't want to overstash myself... but, as I learned, also this seems to be a pandemic virus!


Yes, the ever growing stash! It seems to be an affliction shared by modelers all over the world.
Good luck with your decision making process and outcomes.

Cheers
CaptainA
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Friday, February 26, 2010 - 06:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

but on the other side I don't want to overstash myself... but, as I learned, also this seems to be a pandemic virus!

ciao and have anice day!!
Edo



My stash is probably over 450 by now. Maybe they have shots or something to help cure me.

Edo, try Rodens Albatros D.III or D.III (OAW). I am sure you will find it to be a very rewarding build. It is the kit that shifted my focus from 1/48 to 1/32. You can build out of the box or add detail as much as you want. You can also get real creative with paint schemes.
RAGIII
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Friday, February 26, 2010 - 02:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

but on the other side I don't want to overstash myself... but, as I learned, also this seems to be a pandemic virus!

ciao and have anice day!!
Edo



My stash is probably over 450 by now. Maybe they have shots or something to help cure me.

Edo, try Rodens Albatros D.III or D.III (OAW). I am sure you will find it to be a very rewarding build. It is the kit that shifted my focus from 1/48 to 1/32. You can build out of the box or add detail as much as you want. You can also get real creative with paint schemes.



I have to agree here! I built the DIII for the group build and the only fit problem is in locating the cockpit coaming/cowl piece. I also built the DI and it has even less of a problem with that cowl piece location. The fun part with Albatri is that most often it is simply paintwork needed and not aftermarket decals! Then again, I like painting
RAGIII
Mgunns
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Friday, February 26, 2010 - 03:08 PM UTC
[quoteEdo, try Rodens Albatros D.III or D.III (OAW). I am sure you will find it to be a very rewarding build. It is the kit that shifted my focus from 1/48 to 1/32. You can build out of the box or add detail as much as you want. You can also get real creative with paint schemes.[/quote]

This is my build of the Roden Albatros D.III (OAW) It was seeing Carls build right here on Aeroscale that motivated me to build it. It was a very enjoyable build. Fit was good, no problems save for a little fiddly with the upper wing, but that is normal. Highly recommend it.
Kornbeef
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Posted: Friday, February 26, 2010 - 10:30 PM UTC
I am so glad to see that this discussion never turned into a manufacture bashing session. I love Roden kits, they really reinvented the upsurge of 1/32 or large scale models. Considering they are a small small self funded company what they have produced is awesome, true WNW have an edge on them detail and fit wise but they have such awesome backing.

I may be the first to build a hybrid between the two yet.....My OAW DIII really would benefit from WNW wings, engine etc...or so it seems by the pics.

But seriously as said the only kits that clash between the two companies at the moment is the SE5a. I have both, the detail on WNW is better but the Roden is still outstanding and better in some places, neither are 100% accurate. I'm sure there is a wealth of subjects out there we all want to see produced...and competition might make what we are offered sharper to boot.

I think these days its far too easy to get drawn into manufacturer wars and AMS rules supreme, this wonderful medium we share information on is as much to blame....some sites lambasting kits and manufacturers quite unpleasantly...thankfully here we are a much saner breed...as long as we keep taking the meds. Seriously....we should all think back 20 or more years and remember trying to work with some of the what then seemed incredible kits for their time...who now would spare the time to try to make an accurate DRI or DVII from Revells 1/28th offerings.

I seem to recall a report a long while back on Roden done here, I wonder if it isnt a good time for someone to bump it up so people can see how much effort they put into bringing us kits to work with?

Keith



thegirl
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 01:24 AM UTC
Well put guy's . Roden is a top notch company with an excellent product and the customer service can't be beat . They brought us subjects which the other manufactures wouldn't even dream of doing and continue to do so . WNW is a new company with an excellent product as well and has a very bright future ahead for themselves which we benefit from with new offerings 30 kit's in the making is alot of choices . With all manufactures there are pros's and con's with the kit's . There is no kit which is a 100% accurate . Whether it be from fit issue to lack of detail , keep in mind that every kit is buildable .

Taking a step back in time when Eduard started up making WW 1 subjects . They were short run kit's with a lot of brass . 15 years later look were they are now with their toolings .....Lot's of guy's call their older kit's crap now and the only reason why the do this is the new toolings from other manufactures . Most modellers today are looking for the shake the box and it's done .


Ture with some kit's , but where would the fun be in that . Rodens D.III is an excellent kit . I got both in the stash just waiting for AMS to work it's magic on them . There has been some excellent builds of this kit on line here by Carl , Mark , Rick and countless others . You did a great job on Eduards DH-2 so the Roden kit is right up your ally !
CaptainA
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 06:14 AM UTC
Edo, did we answer your question

Keith, you are right. We do tend to look towards the positive here. I never thought about it like that, but it is why I visit here all the time. That and Terri's home-baked cookies.

Mark, Thanks. It was Brad Cancian's build that motivated me to build better. So the circle continues.
wombat58
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New South Wales, Australia
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Posted: Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 08:35 PM UTC
Hi Edo.

I have built all of Rodens'1:32 scale WW1 aircraft kits along with Hobbycrafts'Camel, the Academy Nieuport 17, the Special Hobby Morane Saulnier type N and three of WNWs'kits. I have thoroughly enjoyed building all these models and apart from the usual little hick-ups all kits went together very well. The latest Roden kit, the SSW D.III was a real pleasure to build as was the Roden DH-2. The 3 WNW kits I built are brilliant kits hence the higher price tag.

I get my Roden kits from Poland and they usually land here in about 4 days at a cost of around $60AUD. including postage. Academy, Special Hobby and Hobbycraft are purchased from my local hobby shop at around $30 each. WNW kits are a little higher in price but are well worth the extra money.

The amount of effort you put into a kit is entirely up to you, most of these kits build up very well OOB, but all lend themselves to super detailing if you so desire.

Hope you find what you are looking for and happy modelling.

Des.
wombat58
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New South Wales, Australia
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Posted: Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 10:11 PM UTC
Here are some photos of the models I spoke about, all very good kits and relatively easy to make.













Des.
edoardo
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Milano, Italy
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2010 - 09:16 PM UTC
Hi guys!
sorry for the late reply, but 5 years ago my child scratched my left eye and sometimes it still hurts to this days! When it happens I have to keep my eye closed with medication and every move of the pupil agains the eyelid is painful... so also working on the pc is awful...

Anyway, I'm back to business today, and feel ok

The discussion we are having here is very interesting... but, Carl, no, it actually doesn't answer my question... indeed it increases my doubts, so I think I'll buy kits from any of these manufacturers depending on the model I want to build and to hell my stash problems (at least till my wife finds out!!).

But that's not a problem at all! I was not concerned in finding THE answer or THE kit to build, rather I enjoy the conversation with you and the flows of thoughts and ideas that circulate within the community and that it brings to me!

ciao
Edo
B24Liberator
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Minnesota, United States
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2010 - 11:51 PM UTC
Hi All --

Looking at these larger scales is tempting...very tempting...
Mgunns
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 - 04:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi All --

Looking at these larger scales is tempting...very tempting...



Don't fight it Johannes: Give in, yield to it, give in and get one. Just ask yourself, what would Claude do? He'd buy one!
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