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Pre-Flight Check
Constructive critique of your finished or in-progress photos.
Lightning F3: Not happy with using foil
Tin_Can
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 12:23 PM UTC
Well, I've attempted the bare metal foil method using the Microscale Metal Foil Adhesive and aluminum foil. In short, I'm not pleased with this method but it may be because of my ineptness. In just the few areas I foiled, I noted lots of air bubbles as well as brush strokes that were showing through from when the Microscale adhesive was brushed onto the aluminum. You can see the areas I'm talking about in the photos below. I'm glad I experimented with this method on a $3 model! I'll have to try one of the paint methods next-either Alclad or MM Metalizer.

I fell this kit may get the circular file treatment as is.



airwarrior
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 12:39 PM UTC
finnish adding the foil and...........shoot it
CRS
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 02:08 PM UTC
That foil is tuff to get smooth, I tried some self adhesive foil I'd picked up some where and it only works well in small areas. Alcad II has given me great results, and so has Testor's Metalizer. I find Testor's a little easier to work with as it comes in bottle or rattle can. For large overall coverage, I don't even dirty my airbrush I use the rattle can, use it out of the bottle for small panel work. Don't toss your "scratch pad model" try both Alcald II and Testor's and buff them out to see which result you like best. By the way Testor's is less expensive.
Tin_Can
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 02:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

That foil is tuff to get smooth, I tried some self adhesive foil I'd picked up some where and it only works well in small areas. Alcad II has given me great results, and so has Testor's Metalizer. I find Testor's a little easier to work with as it comes in bottle or rattle can. For large overall coverage, I don't even dirty my airbrush I use the rattle can, use it out of the bottle for small panel work. Don't toss your "scratch pad model" try both Alcald II and Testor's and buff them out to see which result you like best. By the way Testor's is less expensive.



Chuck, I think you hit some key points right on the head. The foil is tough to get smooth and doesn't work good over a large area.

I plan on picking up some metalizers tomorrow and doing some test shots alongside the foil to see what happens. I've got a 1/32 P-47 that gets a NMF and I wanna make sure I've got the procedure down pat before I start it. Thanks.
Part-timer
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 02:41 PM UTC
Wow, Tin_can, that is exactly how I've imagined any attempt by me at foil would turn out. If a modeler as skilled as you has difficulty, I haven't a prayer. I'll just stick with the Metalizer. Thanks for talking me out of wasted money and time.
SS-74
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 02:55 PM UTC
Lord Tin Man,

Sorry for the foil not working out. I was really look forward to the result. As we are about doing NMF at the same time. With me using Alclad, and you using the foil. So I can compare the end result.

But don't give up. or as CRS said, try Alclad and Testor on the same one see how it turns out.
Tin_Can
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 02:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Wow, Tin_can, that is exactly how I've imagined any attempt by me at foil would turn out. If a modeler as skilled as you has difficulty, I haven't a prayer. I'll just stick with the Metalizer. Thanks for talking me out of wasted money and time.



While I'm not sure I would classify myself as a "skilled" modeler, I'm glad that you can learn from my experience-that's why I posted the pics and my thoughts even though I'm nowhere near happy with it. There may be something I'm not doing correct but this foil method isn't near as easy as the recent article in FSM makes it out to be. Besides the problems noted above, I had difficulty when wrapping the foil around the wings and needing to work it around the horizontal curves of the wing tips. Also, this method can be very messy.

To those that use this method and have success, you have my respect.
CRS
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 03:07 PM UTC
Tin_Can - something I forgot to mention when you a experimenting with the metalizers some basic tools ( Cotton swab or ball will do, Nylon from wife girlfriend or bankrobber, Gauze and polishing compound ) each fabric will yield different buffing results and you can use them with and without the polishing compound. Mask off small areas on the same metal surface and give them a try. Works with either MM or Alclad.
Tin_Can
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 03:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Tin_Can - something I forgot to mention when you a experimenting with the metalizers some basic tools ( Cotton swab or ball will do, Nylon from wife girlfriend or bankrobber, Gauze and polishing compound ) each fabric will yield different buffing results and you can use them with and without the polishing compound. Mask off small areas on the same metal surface and give them a try. Works with either MM or Alclad.



Thanks Chuck.
SS-74
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 03:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Tin_Can - something I forgot to mention when you a experimenting with the metalizers some basic tools ( Cotton swab or ball will do, Nylon from wife girlfriend or bankrobber, Gauze and polishing compound ) each fabric will yield different buffing results and you can use them with and without the polishing compound. Mask off small areas on the same metal surface and give them a try. Works with either MM or Alclad.



CRS, You da NMF dude, just a question, do I need polish Alclad? can I use the fluffy thing on my dremel tool for polishing?
CRS
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 03:20 PM UTC
SS-74 Thanks but it's just that I've made my mistakes too.

Yes you can use your Dremel but be careful, light touch low speed you can "burn" the finish.
SS-74
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 03:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text

SS-74 Thanks but it's just that I've made my mistakes too.

Yes you can use your Dremel but be careful, light touch low speed you can "burn" the finish.



Thanks CRS, you are very very helpful on this NMF thing, so my best bet will be just using a ball of cotton to polish it, right? what should I polish with? Thanks. Bud
TwistedFate
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 04:38 PM UTC
I've never actually used Kitchen foil for this, but I did try Bare-Metal foil. It's pricey, but it worked great. I was able to get the bubbles out and it conformed to the details beautifully.
Grifter
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Posted: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 10:33 PM UTC
weeellll, we know how you car guys like your bare metal foil! #:-)
Merlin
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#017
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Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 10:03 AM UTC
Hi Bryan

I really appreciate you posting these pics... this is really what the RRB is about! :-) It's great to be able to learn from someone else's experiences - even if there are negative

I've never had much faith in domestic foil for large areas. I've read of people attaching it with varnish - which may avoid the brush-strokes problem (maybe try that on a bare bit of the Lightning before you bin it!!).

I remember an article some years back in FSM about using foil on a P-47 - it was beautifully applied, but I couldn't help but notice the really thick trailing edges it created

The natural metal method that always knocks me out is applying aluminium powder to part-dry varnish - once it's all dry and buffed, it's awesome!! :-) :-)

Cheers again

Rowan
CRS
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Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 12:17 PM UTC
Porky- I think MM must be powder in a Lacquer emulsion (sp) there is plenty of it around when your done spraying.
Tin_Can
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Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 01:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Bryan

I really appreciate you posting these pics... this is really what the RRB is about! :-) It's great to be able to learn from someone else's experiences - even if there are negative



Rowan, that's the exact reason I went ahead and posted the pics. I figure if I show what it looks like and the problems I had others might have solutions or it might help somebody decide on what to do if they were getting ready to do a natural metal finish.

Today I picked up some MM Metalizer and sprayed some. What a night and day difference. It airbrushed beautifully with no thinning required and went down very smooth and even. I sprayed non-buffing aluminum tonight and tomorrow I'm going to spray some non-buffing steel to see how that looks. I'm really interested to see how this goes with regards to masking. I'll keep everyone posted and will post pics soon.
Desert-Fox
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Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 03:39 PM UTC
I was never a fan of this method. Try using the ALCLAD II system.
http://www.alclad2.com/
Tin_Can
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Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 11:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I was never a fan of this method. Try using the ALCLAD II system.
http://www.alclad2.com/



Thanks Martin. I've researched alclad a little and may end up trying it. I'm going to give MM Metalizers a try first.
CRS
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2003 - 02:55 AM UTC
Tin_Can - you know while you are doing all this research you should document it in photos and words and post an article.
Merlin
Staff MemberSenior Editor
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#017
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2003 - 08:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Porky- I think MM must be powder in a Lacquer emulsion (sp) there is plenty of it around when your done spraying.



Yeah!! when you see the cr*p in the air when you airbrush these paints, you really begin to see the need for good ventilation and a heavy-duty face mask!! :-)

For anyone messing about with aluminium powder - be careful... get it near a naked flame and BBBOOOOMMM!!!

I know some folks mix aluminium powder with varnish for a "home-made" paint... I've never tried it, but maybe one of you guys has some tips on this?

All the best

Rowan
ModlrMike
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2003 - 09:37 AM UTC
I've found that when using kitchen foil it's best to work in very small areas. The last kit I used it on I went panel by panel. Tedious, but it preserved all the panel lines and went on easily. I was able to change the orientation of the grain to give subtle differences between panels.
Tin_Can
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2003 - 12:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I've found that when using kitchen foil it's best to work in very small areas. The last kit I used it on I went panel by panel. Tedious, but it preserved all the panel lines and went on easily. I was able to change the orientation of the grain to give subtle differences between panels.



Mike, it's reassuring to know that somebody had success with this method...lol!
Holdfast
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#056
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Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 07:50 AM UTC
:-) Thanks for posting this Bryan. I am almost ready to have a go on a complete aircraft, with kitchen foil. The test pieces I have done were very encouraging. I have managed to foil large, small and complicated areas, using this method. without bubbles or brush strokes. The only problem I had was when I tried it on the slat of a Sabre. I bent the slat as I put on the foil, this caused the foil to wrinkle when it straightend out
What has taken the time, before trying it out an a model though, was how to replicate different panels. One method has been mentioned, but I have other ideas. I'm intending to write an article, but it may take some time :-)
Mal
csch
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Posted: Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 08:14 AM UTC
That´s why I never think in using it.
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