Does anyone have a reference/link they can send me showing the installation and particularly the "plumbing" on the air pump mounted on the front top of the 160 HP as installed in the earlier Albatros DIIIs? I had an earlier query on my KoTS Build Thread of the Roden Early DIII and got confirmation that the engine did indeed have this pump and I have scratch built and mounted it on the engine however am at a loss regarding what appears in some poor quality shots to be two lines running from the pump down into the engine bay or possibly in one case into the top of the engine block. Even a pdféd photo would be appreciated if it's doable and failing that a narrative description. I have scoured my References; all of the Windsock Albie Pubs, In Action, and Osprey to no avail.
Bad case of AMS going round here; can anyone help?

Cheers,
Lance

couple of nice shots here. note the other pipe coming out the other side & the drain off tap

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects/albatros-dva/albatros-dva-walkaround
edits to add link


yes two on the left. one to the top of the casing in front of the cylinders, one around halfway down jon the carb side. just below half way, when I get a little more time I'll look further for you.

realises that might well be a 180 but the principle is similar but let me check

Thank You kind Sir!
Hadn't seen this site before, awesome and very much everything I was looking for. I agree, the Replica is no doubt the 180 HP Mercedes however It's no doubt close enough if so. Only puzzle remaining is where the various pipes/lines go to once they disappear down into the engine compartment. Not required for this build however I'm planning on having the cowling off on a future DV or Va build. I've learned a lot and know the next attempt on a WNW foundation will be better.
On a perfect day Steven would pitch in with some of his wisdom regarding the "under the cowling" questions!

Thank You again Keith, wonderful support and I look forward to the results of your "further look".

Cheers and Happy Easter,
Lance

Lance, no further pictorial ref yet but I can tell you the two pipes on the carb side which run to and from the housing are I believe oil feeds flow for the camshaft, the other one on the pump body itself seems to route in several different ways one of which is to be clipped to the cam box bolts along the top of the engine, but ultimately goes back to the fuel control Panel in the cockpit.
Some do however drop in front of the first cylinder, these I believe have a secondary air pump mounted on the carb side crankcase between 1st & 2nd cylinders.

Here the pilot can switch between hand pump and engine powered air pump to supply fuel pressure (For starting, he would pump up the fuel pressure with the big Bicycle type pump then switch to the engine driven air pump once the pressure was high enough. Incidentally, the small guage on the control panel is the fuel pressure guage.

what reference I have for the 160 with the smaller pump shows much the same setup though I havent a clear shot of the two oil pipes routing.

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects/mercedes-engine/mercedes-engine-restoration
look at the period pic, see the air pump set back after the last cam box? Now look to the front and you might make out the oil feeds, theres a pick of a later casing further down the page shows the oil pipe connections perfectly. (180 again though) and dont forget to check the gallery and histor tabs just for info.

Hope this helps some...I'm learning myself, even picking up info I didnt realise with a fresh look

Ok guys I can see there is a bit of confusion.

Mercedes motors

2. Mercedes D.III -- rated at 160hp It was introduced around 15 Aug 1916. It used concave pistons and can be recognized by:

Rocker Arm Position -- the rocker arms come out of the middle of the camshaft bearing boxes.

Water Pump Location -- the water pump is above the crankshaft on the jackshaft that goes from the crankshaft to the camshaft between and above the magnetoes.

Air Pump -- the fuel pressurization air pump is a single cylinder model mounted at the rear of the engine on top of the camshaft assembly.

Crankcase Shape -- the crankcase has a smooth, tapering profile from the main body forward to the front main bearing.

3. D.IIIa -- rated at 170 -180hp variation is identical to the first, except that
a. Air Pump -- the fuel pressurization air pump is a single cylinder model mounted at the front of the engine on top and infront of the first cylinder.
b. The concave pistons were replaced with flat pistons that raised the compression. This model was introduced around 1 Feb 1917 for the Albatros D.III. Late in 1917 flat pistons were replaced by domed types. Domed pistons being the primary method of describing the later 180hp. Being over compressed still by definition makes it an "aü". ü= uber.

WNW has chosen to use the casting in the crank case to identify the motor . These motors were rebuilt to later standards when they came in for repairs. Even at the factory when older motors came back they were rebuilt to later standards.

Stephen, Hi and welcome to our ongoing debate.

Thanks for clearing up the airpump siting for us This has spread over a few different logs, Lance started this new in hope of clarification...we all know already how confusing some of these issues can be.

This had me poring over my reference, mainly Windsocks wonderful datafiles. Your info is great. I suppose there was the well known practice of using up old stock engines before the new and theres shots of a few Albi DIII's with the air pump at the rear even OAW examples.
But saying that theses also pics of DI's and DII's with airpumps on the front of the cam assemblies (these were the thinner tall type) so I'm wondering if there wasnt a specific location set in stone for the airpump or it was moved mid production sometime.

There id one or two pics where the air pump is tilted to the right side too, just to add to confusion.

Anyway, confusion as they say keeps yourr mind from worrying over more urgent things


Keith

Keith,
I think I've got it more or less straight. There are however, many exceptions and they can lead you down a bunny trail real quick. Like you I went back to the Reference pile and did pick up on the routing as you describe down the right side however it's the NASM "Stropp" DVa and no doubt the 180 HP engine. (Pg 4 of the WS Albatros Fighters Special) It being, at time of discovery, 0145 in the wee small hours of this morning I went no further for then.

Steven,
I recall an article you entered earlier with an outline of the Mercedes Engines and all the various differences of which your reply appears to be a part of. Do you have a quick Reference so I can go back and get my head straight?
The rocker arms mounting position point you make is very obvious now that you've pointed it out to me. Mine are per the later version (at the front of the camshaft bearing boxes) and I'm just going to have to live with it.

All this to say Thanks to you both for the interest and help; look forward to more as " it ain't over til it's over "!

Cheers,
Lance

Lance, check WNW's DV archive photos, about halfway down theres 3 shots of a 160 might give you more ideas... or headaches. note 1 has a rear airpump though... the plot thickens.

Keith, already been there and yes, more detail and help for sure. I'll be updating my build later today including a couple of close up shots of the pump, plumbing etc. Overall it's probably a hybrid however I'm pleased with the results. Let me know your thoughts after viewing.
On a different but related note I'm confused on another basic; the throttle and cable on the control column of the DIII, like the DI and DII with a cable running to the left cockpit wall near the spark arrestor control or like the DV & Va with the cables running down the stick main member?? Gun wires from triggers to the Gun support cross brace or down the stick as well.
Ironic that the DI and II, V and Va are all very clearly described and illustrated, the poor old DIII appears to be an orphan?

Please don't spend a lot of your time on the questions, you've done Yoeman service already and I appreciate it however don't wish to become a pain!
Cheers,
Lance

Lance, I believe the throttle runs down the stick, (theres mention in the OAW Idflieg acceptance report of it having to be rerouted to prevent it being stood on, that plus it having the same basic layout as the DV.
Now the gun cables however appear to exit a tube each side of the control column handgrip centre behind the thumb levers almost perpendicular to it then loop over the empty cartridebelt container and ammo boxes. from what pics I have.

Thanks Keith,
The lay out appears to be what I had more or less settled on; the DIII is indeed close to the DV in many respects. At some point of my searching I saw a sketch that had the gun trigger cables as you say however they were bolted to the gun mount cross frame member at the gun mount brackets once they reached the "under the guns " position. Despite much searching since I can't relocate it.
Thanks yet again; I'll be able to install both with a little patience prior to closing her up.

Cheers,
Lance