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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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P-40M or M1
Juljul
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Essone, France
Joined: May 31, 2011
KitMaker: 13 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - 10:06 AM UTC
Greetings, everyone,

My name is Jullian and i am new here.
I vew a lot of Topic in the aeroscale Forum and always fall in admiration with the work i see here and now i jump to the forum for a long time i hope.
I usually make WW1 aircraft models but i am a big fan of the P-40,recently. i buy the Hasegawa's 1/32 type M
I plan to make a 80th FG Burma Banshees paint sheme but this FG apparentely use P40 N1, N5 and not M version.
My question is do the White 44 of 1lt Philip S Adair named "Lulu Belle" is realy a N1 version see Photo in this link :

http://www.burmabanshees.com/images/Burma_Banshee_162.jpg

I think this is a M version but i am not sure i can see three machineguns in the wing six in total the N1 version have two, four in total no?
If someone could clarify that big cloud to my i will grateful

When i start the model i will share some pictures in a new Topic

Many thanks!
And sorry my english is very simple and crude.

Best regards

Jullian.

Sorry for the title i can not edit Its: P-40M or N1
Bigrip74
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,026 posts
AeroScale: 2,811 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - 10:48 AM UTC
Hello Jullian,
I took a look in HISTOIRE & COLLECTIONS P-40 From 1939 to 1945 and the "M" section. Your photo looks like an M per the photos that I have just looked at. Maybe some one with more knowledge will chime in.

Bob
Juljul
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Essone, France
Joined: May 31, 2011
KitMaker: 13 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - 11:17 AM UTC
Hello Bob,

Thank a lot for your quick reply,
Its sound good to me, if its a M version, well I have to get that book too.
I know the P-40 N have the wheel smaler than the M but in the photo its dificult to see for me.

Jullian.
Bigrip74
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,026 posts
AeroScale: 2,811 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - 11:26 AM UTC
The canopy hood is what makes me believe that the photo is of an "M"

Bob
Juljul
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Essone, France
Joined: May 31, 2011
KitMaker: 13 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - 11:43 AM UTC
The difficulty is the N1 version have that type of canopy too,
The change with the long canopy came to the N5 version, according to my documentation (P-40 Monographs of Kagero book).

Jullian.
vanize
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: January 30, 2006
KitMaker: 1,954 posts
AeroScale: 1,163 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - 12:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The difficulty is the N1 version have that type of canopy too,
The change with the long canopy came to the N5 version, according to my documentation (P-40 Monographs of Kagero book).

Jullian.



This is correct - the very Earliest N models did not sport the distinctive canopy that most of the N production machines had.

Given the tires do not seem to be of the reduced-diameter type and the apparent 6 machine guns (3 per side) I would venture that this is an M model.

Juljul
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Essone, France
Joined: May 31, 2011
KitMaker: 13 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - 10:57 PM UTC
Hello Vance,

Thank for your Reply

Do you know if the cockpit interior of M and N is the same layout, specially the control panel?

best regard.

Jullian.
mwkoubek
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United States
Joined: June 01, 2011
KitMaker: 4 posts
AeroScale: 3 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 02:10 AM UTC
That aircraft is a very early P-40N-1, for all intents and purposes a P-40M is externally identical. The earliest "N"s did not have the smaller lightweight wheels. The 5th and 6th .50 cal machine guns were added in the field. P-40N-1 started with serial 42-104428, the aircraft in question is 42-10590. The first two batches of P-40N's (-1 and -5) had a symetrical instrument panel. The -10, -15 and -20 had a similar panel with a small square extention on the left side. The -25, -30, -35 and -40 had a more streamlined asymetrical instrument panel. (the 1/48 Mauve/Eduard kit have the latter, the Hasegawa P-40N & P-40M kits have last two types) . I hope this helps.
Juljul
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Essone, France
Joined: May 31, 2011
KitMaker: 13 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 03:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

That aircraft is a very early P-40N-1, for all intents and purposes a P-40M is externally identical. The earliest "N"s did not have the smaller lightweight wheels. The 5th and 6th .50 cal machine guns were added in the field. P-40N-1 started with serial 42-104428, the aircraft in question is 42-10590. The first two batches of P-40N's (-1 and -5) had a symetrical instrument panel. The -10, -15 and -20 had a similar panel with a small square extention on the left side. The -25, -30, -35 and -40 had a more streamlined asymetrical instrument panel. (the 1/48 Mauve/Eduard kit have the latter, the Hasegawa P-40N & P-40M kits have last two types) . I hope this helps.



Hello Michael
thanks so much for the very helpfull reply all answers i need is in there and I can make my Lulu belle with the "M" model

Jullian.


BlackWidow
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European Union
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,732 posts
AeroScale: 1,336 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 04:54 AM UTC
Bonjour Julian!
I'm far away from being a P-40 expert, epecially when it comes to small details with the instruments, though I really like this plane and have already built 6 of them in 1/48 scale (E and N from Hasegawa, and a Kittyhawk Mk. III from Italeri/AMT). I just had a look in my Osprey book "P-40 Aces of the CBI". There it says
"2Lt. Phil Adair's first Lulu Belle was a P-40 N-1 and as this photograph shows, it boasted whitewalled tyres on the main gear and tailwheel. The marking on the hubcaps is a flying buzzard holding a bomb in its talons. Like all P-40 N-1s in the 80th FG, Adair's aeroplane carried six wing guns, which was unusual for this model of Warhawk (factory-built with just four guns) and may have been a field modification."
He flew another P-40 N with the name "Lulu Belle" (probably a late type) which I have build last year out of the great Hasegawa 1/48 kit, as I don't have an early type of that version.
Hope this helps a little .....

Happy modelling!
Torsten
vanize
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: January 30, 2006
KitMaker: 1,954 posts
AeroScale: 1,163 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 04:54 AM UTC
Confirmed that the instrument panel did not change till later in the N series
Juljul
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Essone, France
Joined: May 31, 2011
KitMaker: 13 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 08:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Bonjour Julian!
I'm far away from being a P-40 expert, epecially when it comes to small details with the instruments, though I really like this plane and have already built 6 of them in 1/48 scale (E and N from Hasegawa, and a Kittyhawk Mk. III from Italeri/AMT). I just had a look in my Osprey book "P-40 Aces of the CBI". There it says
"2Lt. Phil Adair's first Lulu Belle was a P-40 N-1 and as this photograph shows, it boasted whitewalled tyres on the main gear and tailwheel. The marking on the hubcaps is a flying buzzard holding a bomb in its talons. Like all P-40 N-1s in the 80th FG, Adair's aeroplane carried six wing guns, which was unusual for this model of Warhawk (factory-built with just four guns) and may have been a field modification."
He flew another P-40 N with the name "Lulu Belle" (probably a late type) which I have build last year out of the great Hasegawa 1/48 kit, as I don't have an early type of that version.
Hope this helps a little .....

Happy modelling!
Torsten



Guten Tag Torsten,

Many tanks this is help a lot,
looks like i have to do my own Decals for all the details like the little buzzard on the weels or the name Lulu Belle

Happy modelling you to

Jullian.
Juljul
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Essone, France
Joined: May 31, 2011
KitMaker: 13 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 08:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Confirmed that the instrument panel did not change till later in the N series



Thank you, Vance

Jullian.
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