Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
The Contenders,The Camel And The Triplane.
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Friday, November 01, 2013 - 12:14 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Friday, November 01, 2013 - 12:40 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Friday, November 01, 2013 - 01:37 PM UTC
OK,just to sum up where I am now.
Diorama #5 a shadowbox for the CASM.
"The Contenders 1917".
The Camel and the Triplane
When I first started thinking about doing this shadowbox diorama the words "the contenders" immediately came to mind.When I think of fighters (boxers) I think of the famous phrase from a long forgotten movie were one of the characters says, "Ya know I could'a been a contender".This ultimately became the theme of this diorama, human fighters- aircraft fighters.
1917 was also a critical time both for the outcome of the war and aviation in general.Two aircraft were fighting for air superiority over the trenches,the Camel and the Triplane.The Camel figures prominently in Canadian's minds because of Billy Bishop,and the Triplane because of Snoopy and the Red Baron.If I had called it by it's proper name the average person wouldn't know a Fokker Dr.1 from a 747.
1917 was also a critical time in aircraft design history .Fokker was experimenting with a high wing monoplane design that would eliminate all the drag of the external wiring of the biplane.Three wings proved to be pretty much a dead end but the monoplane's thicker wing for increasing lift seemed promising.
The hangar research facility that I am building is from my imagination.The story is a Camel has run out of fuel behind enemy lines and the Germans are retrieving it to take it apart to see if the British side has come up with any new innovations with its later model Camels.Also in the hangar will be a Fokker Dr.1 being examined for wear and tear on its new triplane design.Both aircraft therefore will be without fabric.
The research going on there will be more recognizable as I am planning to do a 1/48 scale Fokker E.V high wing monoplane as a wooden wind tunnel experimental design.Luckily for me the German word for experiment is experiment ! The kit comes with two wings,one I will use on the wooden wind tunnel model, on which will be written "experiment" and the other hung on the back wall with the same wording.That should help the viewer figure out at least part of whats going on.
Diorama #5 a shadowbox for the CASM.
"The Contenders 1917".
The Camel and the Triplane
When I first started thinking about doing this shadowbox diorama the words "the contenders" immediately came to mind.When I think of fighters (boxers) I think of the famous phrase from a long forgotten movie were one of the characters says, "Ya know I could'a been a contender".This ultimately became the theme of this diorama, human fighters- aircraft fighters.
1917 was also a critical time both for the outcome of the war and aviation in general.Two aircraft were fighting for air superiority over the trenches,the Camel and the Triplane.The Camel figures prominently in Canadian's minds because of Billy Bishop,and the Triplane because of Snoopy and the Red Baron.If I had called it by it's proper name the average person wouldn't know a Fokker Dr.1 from a 747.
1917 was also a critical time in aircraft design history .Fokker was experimenting with a high wing monoplane design that would eliminate all the drag of the external wiring of the biplane.Three wings proved to be pretty much a dead end but the monoplane's thicker wing for increasing lift seemed promising.
The hangar research facility that I am building is from my imagination.The story is a Camel has run out of fuel behind enemy lines and the Germans are retrieving it to take it apart to see if the British side has come up with any new innovations with its later model Camels.Also in the hangar will be a Fokker Dr.1 being examined for wear and tear on its new triplane design.Both aircraft therefore will be without fabric.
The research going on there will be more recognizable as I am planning to do a 1/48 scale Fokker E.V high wing monoplane as a wooden wind tunnel experimental design.Luckily for me the German word for experiment is experiment ! The kit comes with two wings,one I will use on the wooden wind tunnel model, on which will be written "experiment" and the other hung on the back wall with the same wording.That should help the viewer figure out at least part of whats going on.
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 02, 2013 - 10:31 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 02, 2013 - 11:44 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 02, 2013 - 10:58 PM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 02:03 AM UTC
I will not be using the Udet or Goering figures in this diorama because of their later association with Nazism.I can swap the heads for a heads that I have in stock.I can remove the hat and put it on the new head or place the figure in such a way that the face cannot be seen in a shadowbox composition.
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 02:43 AM UTC
I have decided that instead of commemorating the beginning of WW1 I will be placing it in the museum to commemorate the Battle of Vimy Ridge in April 19 1917 and the aerial war that was fought over the trenches.I will store it here or at the museum until that time.Being a shadowbox there will be nothing to put together that would require my assistance.
This arrangement will also take the pressure off of any time issues and allow me not to rush to complete it.
I am doing this for a very important personal reason as my father-in-law fought and was wounded and gassed at the battles of Vimy and the Somme.He was one of the first "over the top" and out of the trenches at the start of the battle as an officer with the Royal 22nd (Van Doos)Regiment.In honor of that fact I want to dedicate this diorama to him.
Historically,while the battle at Vimy many be just another story from the war, it is very important story here in Canada, as it is said to be the start of our countries independence from the British Empire.
This arrangement will also take the pressure off of any time issues and allow me not to rush to complete it.
I am doing this for a very important personal reason as my father-in-law fought and was wounded and gassed at the battles of Vimy and the Somme.He was one of the first "over the top" and out of the trenches at the start of the battle as an officer with the Royal 22nd (Van Doos)Regiment.In honor of that fact I want to dedicate this diorama to him.
Historically,while the battle at Vimy many be just another story from the war, it is very important story here in Canada, as it is said to be the start of our countries independence from the British Empire.
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 01:29 PM UTC
Battle in the air
An observer of the Royal Flying Corps in a reconnaissance aircraft
The Royal Flying Corps launched a determined effort to gain air superiority over the battlefield in support of the spring offensive. The Canadians considered activities such as artillery spotting, and photography of opposing trench systems, troop movements and gun emplacements essential to continue their offensive.[65] The Royal Flying Corps deployed 25 squadrons totalling 365 aircraft along the Arras sector, outnumbering the Imperial German Army Air Service by 2-to-1.[65] Byng was given use of No. 2 Squadron, No. 8 (Naval) Squadron, No. 25 Squadron, No. 40 Squadron and No. 43 Squadron, with No. 16 Squadron permanently attached to the Canadian Corps and employed exclusively for observation and artillery support.[66]
Aerial reconnaissance was often a hazardous task because of a requirement to fly at slow speeds and at low altitudes. The task was made all the more dangerous with the arrival of additional German flying squadrons, including Manfred von Richthofen's highly experienced and well equipped Jasta 11, which led to sharp increase in Royal Flying Corps casualties. Although significantly outnumbering the Germans, the Royal Flying Corps lost 131 aircraft during the first week of April alone.[66] Despite the losses suffered by the Royal Flying Corps, the Imperial German Army Air Service failed to prevent the Royal Flying Corps from carrying out its prime objective, namely the continued support of the army throughout the Arras Offensive with up-to-date aerial photographs and reconnaissance information.[65]
An observer of the Royal Flying Corps in a reconnaissance aircraft
The Royal Flying Corps launched a determined effort to gain air superiority over the battlefield in support of the spring offensive. The Canadians considered activities such as artillery spotting, and photography of opposing trench systems, troop movements and gun emplacements essential to continue their offensive.[65] The Royal Flying Corps deployed 25 squadrons totalling 365 aircraft along the Arras sector, outnumbering the Imperial German Army Air Service by 2-to-1.[65] Byng was given use of No. 2 Squadron, No. 8 (Naval) Squadron, No. 25 Squadron, No. 40 Squadron and No. 43 Squadron, with No. 16 Squadron permanently attached to the Canadian Corps and employed exclusively for observation and artillery support.[66]
Aerial reconnaissance was often a hazardous task because of a requirement to fly at slow speeds and at low altitudes. The task was made all the more dangerous with the arrival of additional German flying squadrons, including Manfred von Richthofen's highly experienced and well equipped Jasta 11, which led to sharp increase in Royal Flying Corps casualties. Although significantly outnumbering the Germans, the Royal Flying Corps lost 131 aircraft during the first week of April alone.[66] Despite the losses suffered by the Royal Flying Corps, the Imperial German Army Air Service failed to prevent the Royal Flying Corps from carrying out its prime objective, namely the continued support of the army throughout the Arras Offensive with up-to-date aerial photographs and reconnaissance information.[65]
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 - 02:05 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 12:18 AM UTC
Because parts of this Camel kit are essentially already painted I will try to take advantage of this by roughening up the shiny plastic surface to give it more of the texture of wood and also prepare it for the pastels.(pastels will not stick to a shiny surface)I have experimented with different sandpapers etc.. and I have found that a very fine needle file works best for getting in and around the detail.Some fuzzy residue will be left behind but when I wash it down with an abrasive cleanser (Comet)it will be removed.It is a long and tedious job but it will be essential for this experiment to have a chance to work.
If I decide to use acrylics after all the roughened surface will ensure that they stick as well.
If I decide to use acrylics after all the roughened surface will ensure that they stick as well.
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 01:30 AM UTC
There is a certain freedom and responsibility involved when working on a museum piece.The freedom comes in knowing that once it is in the case it will be subject to the best conditions possible and also will be maintained in the future. Therefore the use of some materials such as pastels is a realistic consideration,
knowing they won't be handled a lot in that setting.
Also painting figures is a lot easier when scale distance,lighting and angle of view can be established ,especially in shadowbox work.
The responsibility lies in making sure that only the finest materials are used and that they will stand up to what can be the very polluted atmosphere of an enclosed case.To be on the safe side I have recommended that they allow for some air exchange.
Metal is especially subject to corrosion so I seal it well and try not to use incompatible materials together.
I have had a mixed media HMS Victory in a ventilated case for almost fifteen years now without any problems with corrosion or dust.Also the only material I used that doesn't have long standing durability record is a little super glue on the rigging.(I have since developed an allergy to it so that hasn't been a consideration for awhile now.)
knowing they won't be handled a lot in that setting.
Also painting figures is a lot easier when scale distance,lighting and angle of view can be established ,especially in shadowbox work.
The responsibility lies in making sure that only the finest materials are used and that they will stand up to what can be the very polluted atmosphere of an enclosed case.To be on the safe side I have recommended that they allow for some air exchange.
Metal is especially subject to corrosion so I seal it well and try not to use incompatible materials together.
I have had a mixed media HMS Victory in a ventilated case for almost fifteen years now without any problems with corrosion or dust.Also the only material I used that doesn't have long standing durability record is a little super glue on the rigging.(I have since developed an allergy to it so that hasn't been a consideration for awhile now.)
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 10:39 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 11:22 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
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Posted: Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 06:40 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
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Joined: May 20, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 09:45 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
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Joined: May 20, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, November 17, 2013 - 10:12 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 10:11 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - 12:09 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - 01:02 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 21, 2013 - 12:45 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2013 - 10:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
If you think its too much then save the idea for another diorama. Whenever I think of wind tunnels I think of the scene from the Blue Max.
Stephen I have been thinking about this for awhile now and you are right,the Dr.1 would be too much for this small space.Thanks for the heads up.
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
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Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2013 - 11:13 AM UTC
I will now be closing this thread and consolidating it into the "The Contenders" Fokker vs. Sopwith.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
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Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
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Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2013 - 01:59 PM UTC
Closed at the request of the author.