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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Armistice Day
BlackWidow
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Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 - 05:04 AM UTC
Actually I don't know where to put this matter, so this might not be the right forum but it sure is the right day.
Today is Armistice Day. 95 years ago the weapons finally went silent after 4 long years of fighting and dying. Over 8 million dead, 21 million wounded or missed.
In France and Belgium today is a National Rememberance Day, where the public life stands still. Not so in Germany, this day is a normal working day. But on the first Sunday after the 11.11. we have the "Volkstrauertag" when we go to the cemetries and remember the dead of both wars ....



... in the summer of 2012 I went to Flanders and Northern France and visited some monuments and cemetries along the way. I would like to share some of the photos I took there, if you are interesed.

Menin Gate, Ypres, Flanders



Impressing Canadian War Memorial at St. Juliaans, Flanders


German Cemetery at Langemark, Flanders (44.000 dead)



Memorial for Georges Guynemer in Poelkapelle, Flanders


Tyne Cot British Cemetery, Flanders (12.000 dead)



French Cemetrety at St. Charles near Ypres, Flanders (4.000 dead)


more in next posting ....
BlackWidow
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Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 - 05:31 AM UTC
Let's cross the border to France
Thiepval Anglo-French Memorial


New Foundland War Memorial at Beaumont Hamel, Somme region


Delville Wood South African Memorial and Cemetery (5.500 dead)



Australian War Memorial in Peronne, Somme region


New Zealand War Memorial near Longueval, Somme region


French Cemetery (15.000 dead) and Bone House at Douaumont, Verdun. In the house rest the remains of 130.000 French and German soldiers


Indian Army War Memorial at a road crossing in the Somme region


Australian Memorial Park, Fromelles, Somme region


Vimy Ridge Canadian National Historic Site, Somme region



German Cemetery at Neuville-St. Vaast, Somme region (45.000 dead)



The Bullecourt Digger, Somme region


3rdArmoredVet
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Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 - 06:39 AM UTC
Thanks so much for the beautiful pictures and putting this day in perspective. Over here this day was renamed to Veteran's Day. Along with far too many of our holiday's it has become over commercialized with most major retail stores having huge sales and some restaurants offering free meals to Vets, but with a very limited choice of items. I hate going out in public on this day because far too many people want to thank me for my service when they have no idea what it all really means.
Siderius
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Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 - 06:40 AM UTC
Hello Torsten, a fitting tribute indeed. Here in the United States we celebrate Veterans day on this day, November 11th. I find it increasingly distressing that our young people have so little sense of history.
I salute those who fought for our country the United States; and I even respect those who fought with honor on the other side. In reference to WWII, I know it is a sensitive subject, especially in Germany. I HAVE NO love for the Nazi party; for they plunged the world into the worst war mankind has ever seen. Not only did they hurl the world headlong into the abyss, but they hurled Germans too into this abyss.
I have had the discussion with other aviation historians about this, I feel the Luftwaffe did what any air force would do in the situation of having its cities and industries bombed. Certainly, Germany was on the wrong side of history at this time, but I do not condemn those who honorably fought in German armed services. I do not think this mitigates the terrible atrocities which were committed during this time; but, I do think you have every right to honor the dead of the Luftwaffe the Kriegsmarine and the Wehrmacht.
Let us hope that mankind never sees global war again!! I for one have had enough of war. We should learn to embrace our differences and move forward; in my estimation, off world, into space to begin exploring, the final frontier together. Just a thought today. Russell
russamotto
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Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 - 06:55 AM UTC
Thank you for the shared photos. It is a fitting lesson on remembrance. The only notice of the day in my community has been the advertisements on TV and lack of mail service. I have made the effort to teach my children what it really means. These images will help.
DaveCox
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Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 - 07:08 AM UTC
Remembrance is a very personal thing. I shun all of the services - too may wars have been fought over politics and religion. The friends that I've lost - Northern Ireland, South Atlantic and to terrorism are in my mind today.
We revere those who fought in the two world wars, but I'm also mindful of the fact that former enemies now stand, fight and die alongside our own troops against tyranny, oppression and extremism.

Remembrance is for all, regardless of race, colour, faith or politics.

"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them."

Laurence Binyon 'For the Fallen' 1914
DaveCox
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Posted: Monday, November 11, 2013 - 07:15 AM UTC
Thanks for the great photos Torsten, a good reminder of the sheer numbers that were lost in that war, from all the participants.

When I taught Cadets, I told them "Our town has approximately 175000 inhabitants. Now remember that on the first day of the Battle of the Somme the whole population just vanished........"
BlackWidow
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Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 07:20 AM UTC
Thanks for your kind comments, guys. I think those soldiers deserve our respect for what they did. My grandfather (born 1891) fought in France and was lucky to survive not only WW 1 but also WW 2. He died when I was only 7 years old, an age when I had no interest in military things and I also wouldn't understand it.
Russell, not only most young people in the USA have not much interest in history (including the military part). Over here it's the same. And talking of Germany and Army is a very sensitive subject here. It doesn't really fit the "political correctness". Over the past 20 years it has become worse.
Unfortunatly carnival begins here also on the 11.11., so most people think of party, party, party. There were big reports about that on our TV yesterday, but not even a side news about the end of WW 1. It's too long ago and has become the "forgotten war", opposite to WW 2.
During my holidays in that area last year I met many people at the cemeteries and monuments, mainly from Britain, Canada and Australia. When they noticed, that I'm German, I was often asked where the Germans were laid to rest. There are many, many small cemeteries for Commonwealth soldiers but only a few for the German soldiers, which are big. In Flanders are only 4 German cemeteries of WW 1 and I've been to 2 of them, Langemark with 44.000 dead and Vladslo with 17.000 dead. In France I've been to 3 of them in Neuville St. Vaast (45.000 dead), Fricourt (17.000 dead) and Bray sur Somme, which I found by accident with 1.100 dead, which is one of the smallest. But of course I've been to many of the allied cemeteries, too. So I found a small Belgian one and even the cemetery for the Corpo Expedicionario Portugues. So I stood in front of many graves in that 2 weeks ....
There is an American WW 1 cemetery in Flanders near Waregem, but it was a bit out of my route, so I havn't been there, sorry.
If you are interested, there is a very good bilingual BBC documentary, called The Battle of the Somme. But take your time, it lasts 1 hour. I think it's very authentical.

Torsten
Siderius
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Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 07:41 AM UTC
Hi again Torsten, thanks for the response. I agree that political correctness is getting worse. Don't get me started? LOL I feel that such correctness inhibits proper discussion of historically important matters. You can do so without forgetting of the horrors of war, no matter what side you were on. Russell
kurnuy
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Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 08:13 AM UTC
Hi Torsten ,

thank you for sharing these wonderful pictures. I live in flanders and i can say that in Ieper ( flemish for Ypres )every evening the last post is blown at the Menin gate. Since shortly a German delegation is also invited. Now there are German flowers lying next to the flowers of other nations , which is very moving but also great.



Greets , Kurt
BlackWidow
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Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 07:38 AM UTC
Kurt, thanks for your comment and great to have you as a Belgian in this thread!
Yes, I know about this tradition at Menin Gate and if you look at the picture with the wreaths, on the ground at the far left side, beside the Aussie flag, that are flowers given by the VdK, the german equivalent to the CWGC. I guess, I stayed about 1 hour inside the gate looking at the sheer unbelievable number of missed soldiers, plus another 4 hours spending at the Flanders Fields Museum. Very emotional! But I didn't stay until the last post, because I had to drive back to my hotel in Oostduinkerke and enjoyed sitting on the beach. I've been a few times to Vlaanderen already but it was my first time in Ieper. I like Gent.

Torsten
kurnuy
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Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 05:55 AM UTC
Thanks Torsten ,

i'm glad that you associates Flanders not only with wars and monuments but you like also the cities. I wish you and any other person from Germany to have a very good time and feel yourself welcome when you are in Belgium again .

Greets Kurt
BlackWidow
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Posted: Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 08:21 AM UTC
That's very nice of you, Kurt. Thank you! I have good memories of my visits to Belgium.
Your country has suffered a lot in both wars but it has a lot of culture, a lovely landscape and nice medieval cities, like Brussels, Antwerp, Brugge and Gent. And not to forget - lots of great beer! But I think we go a bit off topic now ....
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