_GOTOBOTTOM
Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
WW1 Italian ace Francesco Baracca markings
blaster76
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
AeroScale: 137 posts
Posted: Friday, March 10, 2017 - 11:13 PM UTC
Looking through a book i saw the aircraft for Francesco Baracca side view. a Spad 13 with the prancing pony (Enzo Ferrari got permission to use it on his cars).

I was hoping there is a kit or a decal sheet out there that has this in 48th scale
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Posted: Friday, March 10, 2017 - 11:50 PM UTC
Hi Steve,
Not sure about 1/48 scale, Spada decals had one for 1/32, so I assume they can also make it in 1/48, but I'm not sure they are still in business-- Great Models out of SLC used to carry them as an exclusive until Sprue Brothers bought them out. However, I found thier decal sheets to be very translucent, thin and very fiddly, sticking immediately and cracking if you tried to move them-- they were however very nicely printed, and really looked good after getting them on right. I made some Rampant Stallions for an old 1/32 Nieuport 17 build a few years ago on my computer because I couldn't find them anywhere. In 1/32 scale, the new boxing of Academy's Nieuport 17 has the stallion "Rampante" (raging stallion) and The Hobbycraft Spad 13 "international" also came with the stallion on a white background.
Enzo Ferrari asked Barraca's Mother if he could use the insignia on his Ferrari racers to honor Barraca, and so that's how that began, but the stallion motif came from Barraca's time as a Cavalryman, before he was a pilot, and was the symbol for his old Cavalry regiment. Barraca was an accomplished rider, winning several competitions before the war. You could always print your own stallion's on decal paper, and put them on a white background for the SPAD, his Nieuport didn't have the white background. There is a great museum in Italy dedicated to Barraca, with a reproduction SPAD VII and a Ferrari race car both. You can google Francesco Barraca and the site will come up.
For all the new WWI kits out there there seems to be a dearth of aftermarket decals for national markings and individual aircraft. Spada was the only manufacturer that actually made it thier specialty for a while.
VR, Russ
mrockhill
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 17, 2009
KitMaker: 566 posts
AeroScale: 507 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 11, 2017 - 07:33 AM UTC
Eduards kit 8197 SPAD XIII early has Francesco Baracca decals
TigerTiger
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: January 19, 2017
KitMaker: 50 posts
AeroScale: 17 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 11, 2017 - 09:30 PM UTC
Blue Rider do/did a 1/48 decal set #BR504 WW1 Italian Squadriglia Markings, this set includes markings for a Nieuport 17C-1 of 91 squadriglia piloted by Baracca.

blaster76
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
AeroScale: 137 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 11, 2017 - 10:03 PM UTC
I had been looking at that kit hoping for it. never could see the decal sheet. Maybe my dreams will come true for this

Oh and thanks for the decal sheet may be of future use for other markings if i cant get the kit with them
mrockhill
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 17, 2009
KitMaker: 566 posts
AeroScale: 507 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 01:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I had been looking at that kit hoping for it. never could see the decal sheet. Maybe my dreams will come true for this


If you go to the eduard website and search for "1/48 spad xiii early" you can view the product page and download the kit instructions for free. They have Nice color profiles of the subjects. The kit is oop and doesnt pop up often. Id also like to get one myself for Baraccas markings, I didnt think it would disappear from shelves so quickly.
blaster76
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
AeroScale: 137 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 03:59 AM UTC
You are right i could not find the kit anywhere. BUT I contacted Blue Rider direct and he said he had to look...and he did found a copy of the deal sheet. So i ordered that. It has his spad markings it looks like. The tail stripes Italian colors and the stallion on a white background



.And i just want to add You guys are awesome for the amount of help and ionformatin you share. Been a memeber of Armorama since 2005 when that was all it was with a few sectins to cover ships and planes.. Look at it now. Marvelous community. you can find out more than you ever dreamed about things with all the specialists we have as members
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 04:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You are right i could not find the kit anywhere. BUT I contacted Blue Rider direct and he said he had to look...and he did found a copy of the deal sheet. So i ordered that. It has his spad markings it looks like. The tail stripes Italian colors and the stallion on a white background



.And i just want to add You guys are awesome for the amount of help and ionformatin you share. Been a memeber of Armorama since 2005 when that was all it was with a few sectins to cover ships and planes.. Look at it now. Marvelous community. you can find out more than you ever dreamed about things with all the specialists we have as members


Steve,
Great you found a decal sheet. The only problem I can see with that is the Stallion is red. There has been some suggestion this might be the case, but given information from various sources, and Barraca's family and backcground, the stallion was more likely black.
VR, Russ
JackFlash
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 07:30 AM UTC
Major Francesco Baracca Cmdr of the 91a Squadriglia began the road to being a pilot as early as 1912, and by May, 1915, when Italy entered the war, he had a good amount of experience. Much of this was evident while flying the Nieuport and the Spad types. Espaecially the early Bleriot Spad XIII seen in the popular photo taken on April 10, 1918. In all he reached 34 victories. He fell on June 19th, 1918 to the Austro-Hungarian pilot Oblt. Arnold Berwing, member of Flik 28D, where he flew as an observer on the Phonix C.I. Baracca left his mark in aviation and in the auto industry. After his death, his mother granted his personal emblem to Enzo Ferrari, and has accompanied the likes of Jacky Ickx, Niki Lauda, Gilles Villeneuve, Alain Prost and Michael Schumacher during great automotive accomplishments.
TigerTiger
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: January 19, 2017
KitMaker: 50 posts
AeroScale: 17 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 01:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

You are right i could not find the kit anywhere. BUT I contacted Blue Rider direct and he said he had to look...and he did found a copy of the deal sheet. So i ordered that. It has his spad markings it looks like. The tail stripes Italian colors and the stallion on a white background



.And i just want to add You guys are awesome for the amount of help and ionformatin you share. Been a memeber of Armorama since 2005 when that was all it was with a few sectins to cover ships and planes.. Look at it now. Marvelous community. you can find out more than you ever dreamed about things with all the specialists we have as members


Steve,
Great you found a decal sheet. The only problem I can see with that is the Stallion is red. There has been some suggestion this might be the case, but given information from various sources, and Barraca's family and backcground, the stallion was more likely black.
VR, Russ


The decal sheet comes with both red and black stallions on white backgrounds for the Nieuport and red for the Spad.
Vicious
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
AeroScale: 75 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 02:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Major Francesco Baracca Cmdr of the 91a Squadriglia began the road to being a pilot as early as 1912, and by May, 1915, when Italy entered the war, he had a good amount of experience. Much of this was evident while flying the Nieuport and the Spad types. Espaecially the early Bleriot Spad XIII seen in the popular photo taken on April 10, 1918. In all he reached 34 victories. He fell on June 19th, 1918 to the Austro-Hungarian pilot Oblt. Arnold Berwing, member of Flik 28D, where he flew as an observer on the Phonix C.I. Baracca left his mark in aviation and in the auto industry. After his death, his mother granted his personal emblem to Enzo Ferrari, and has accompanied the likes of Jacky Ickx, Niki Lauda, Gilles Villeneuve, Alain Prost and Michael Schumacher during great automotive accomplishments.


Just for clarification the "Cavallino Rampante" symbol of Baracca was used by Enzo Ferrari in is driver carrier first,then Ferrari created the team as a Alfaromeo racing team then later after the war as a symbol of new born Ferrari racing and manufacturer team,the original idea of Ferrari was build and sales car just for make enaugh cash for is racing cars
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 12, 2017 - 09:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text


The decal sheet comes with both red and black stallions on white backgrounds for the Nieuport and red for the Spad.


Vicious,
Are you sure you have this right?-- all the references I have show the black Stallion (Cavalino Rampante) on white background for his SPAD VII and SPAD XIII (I believe he died flying the VII). And the plain black stallion for the Nieuport 11 and 17. The references I have are Nieuport Aces by Osprey, the Aircraft in Profile series, Profiles of Great War Aircraft, Ghosts of the Great War, the Encyclopedia of WWI Aircraft, Windsock SPAD VII and XIII, and Windsock Nieuport 17. I can't find any reference to red stallions in these. I do understand the monochrome photos of WWI show what may be confusion between red an black, including a very good photo of Barraca and his SPAD, so, decal manufacturers sometimes include both. I'd be interested in building a Nieuport with a red Stallion if there is proof such existed. For what it's worth, the Wikipedia article has a lot of info on Barraca, including the family crest which has a rearing black stallion. The Barraca museum also has quite a bit of information.
VR, Russ
Kevlar06
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Posted: Monday, March 13, 2017 - 12:03 AM UTC
Ok-- here's the complete story, from the Museo-Baracca in Italy, using surviving examples from Baracca's family and aircraft. Still don't see any red mentioned, but an early example might have been Silver. I recommend this site for info on Barraca.

http://eng.museobaracca.it/The-prancing-horse

VR, Russ
blaster76
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Texas, United States
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
AeroScale: 137 posts
Posted: Monday, March 13, 2017 - 11:06 AM UTC
If you look near the bottom of the sheet in the middle you will see the black stallion on a small white background one for each side.

was looking at some info on the Osprey Italian aces book. The review states the author interviewed the families and such to expand the knowledge....so that is high on my list for addition to my library. Also a hardcover book on Italian aces as well for the expanded artwork
 _GOTOTOP