Howdy All,

Many apologies for the 'Topic Title' designed to lure you in (a cheap ruse to be sure). But! It really does apply.
One of the MANY projects I'm working on is a Bare Metal Foil skinned B-58 Hustler Fighter/Bomber. And during one of my daydreaming (read 'trance') episodes, I was thinking over just how many different aircraft have been in a state of Natural Metal Finish, or"Naked" as some would say ( ). The list, if you take a few moments to think about it (no need for the trance-like thing), is quite long to say the least.

Now (and I just know I shouldn't even be considering this, but I can't help it), I generally like Campaign's or Group Builds that educate and/or extend a modelers knowledge or his techniques in some way. My recent, and overly successful "Incoming!!" Campaign is an example of that. Artillery, by design, comes in a plethora of examples. And it has been around for centuries. So, the 'knowledge' thing is expanded by entries such as the Trebouchet, or the Civil War cannon, or the Ballista.

So I was thinking (always a dangerous thing). We have all painted our aircraft up in all different manner of camoflage over the years we've all been modeling. I'm sure some of us have even done the 'Nightfighting' overall Black paintjobs as well.
But!....how many of us have tried to tackle the ever elusive (accurately that is) Natural Metal Finish????
I'm sure there will be at least a few of you out there who have. But I'm also sure that the vast majority of modeler's out there have not!

Hence my attempt here to 'sniff' around for interest in a technique-expanding Group Build as opposed to a result-oriented Campaign. In other words, a Build where the empasis is on helping each other perfect the technique as opposed to simply building another model.

And because this is designed around helping all of us get better at, or even potentially 'mastering' (at least in our own minds) a technique rather than an end result, I do not think there should be a 'Time Limit'
Meaning, that the Build would simply go on for as long as is necessary to help those who choose to participate.
I know we are all aware of the vast amount of talent that is present here on a daily basis. This 'Build' is just an attempt to 'plumb' that talent for the benefit of the membership.

So......whadaya think gang?

Sound like a good idea.....or should I go back to my 'trance'

Interesting. I have this Hasegawa Bf 109 right here, with all the resin parts I could find for it.

I'm doing it JMN style, that is with pre-shading, exhausts stains, etc... All kind of stuff I never do. I'm just curious to see the results!

I still have a spinner and the batterry rack to get on that one.

Interesting topic.
I've only done one kit in bare metal and one with bare metal under surfaces. They turned out ok, but no where near the standard you see posted here and on other sites.
Its not a technique I've mastered but would love to learn as metal finishes give an extra string to the bow when choosing a scheme.
I must say this subject is kind of topical as I've done a few profiles around bare metal, thanks to a suggestion by Merlin, for up-coming features Parts 2 and 3 of the Luft 46 colour camouflage thing.
It's easier to illustrate than to actually do for me at the moment....lol....and its the most difficult to illustrate, so God help me doing it for real on a MiG or something.

It'll be interesting to see how this post develops.
Good call Gordon.

Cheers
Peter

Good Goo, here I sit in my bare metal foil

(not really)

About 2 years ago I was given a bottle of foil glue (shows how much I know- don't know the term for it). I had finished a bare A26 and then read an article in FSM about using aluminum foil for this technique and I said to myself - SELF - you need a kit to try this bare metal foil thingie. So I went and got a 1/48 Thunderbolt and it has been collecting dust ever since.
Long story short - I'm throwing in my bare metal and you can count me in.

IMHO I think an extened end date would be in order, I know some folks need that date out there to keep them focused and working. Sure make it a really long build, but have and end date - Just my opinion - I'll take whatever happens

Well...Howdy fellas!

It's nice to see at least some members responding to this. I'm very glad to hear from you guys (I was beginning to lapse back into the 'trace' like state ).

Anyway, as I've already said, I think a technique based Build is a good idea. And I'm mighty glad you guys think so too. What little I know about Bare Metal Foil can hopefully be expanded upon by those of us who choose this method. And those who chose to go the Alclad II lacquer paint method can also share their experience's so that we can all avoid any potential pitfalls there. And, the really courageous few who choose to apply standard aluminum foil and adhesive, well, I'll definitely be listening to that story.

Since most aircraft during their 'experimental' stage were not painted, and sported their Natural Metal Finish, the list of potential candidates is enormous (I was just thinking of the early B-17 as an example). As a suggestion, since those of us who particiapte in this endeavor will be at least somewhat new to the process. When choosing your subject matter, consider the body lines of the aircraft itself. Obviously the more compound curves the AC has, the more the difficulty factor.
Just a thought.

to OllicC: Since you are the " What-If Deputy Editor", I would expect you'd enjoy this little experience. And your choice of the BF-109 is an interesting one......
Thx for your interest.

to flitzer: By your statement, you've obviously had some experience with BMF. So, your input will be appreciated. Also, maybe this experience will better prepare you for your Luft 46 features Parts #2 and #3. And your thoughts about the Mig sound great. I have also thought about tackling the F-86 Sabre, or the F-100 for this project, since the Hustler is such a large AC! But, I think I'll stick to my guns here, especially since I just LOVE that B-58!! (gotta be one of the absolute sexiest aircraft ever produced ).

to slodder: Mighty glad to see you interested. After looking at your A-26 diorama


I'd say you have a pretty decent handle on the Natural Metal Finish paint side of the equation. So, hopefully you can assist the rest of us 'noobs' who choose that route.

Also, I'm going to take you up on your suggestion of a finite 'Finish' date. So, I'm thinking something along the lines of 'Turkey Day' or some such......

Well again, many thx to you fellas for showing interest in expanding your abilities and sharing your talents.........to the rest of you I say
{done in my best affection of a cackling chicken}

"........ Baaaaakkkkk......., Baaaaaaaaaaaaak........., Baaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!......"

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Tread.

I have done 6-7 ww2 prop planes NMF, F82 twin mustang, p38 lightning, p47 thunderbolt, B17, B24 liberator, t28 trainer...A few tips...

1) avoid putty and sanding if possible..Even minor scratches show thru a NMF finish
2) I have used MM metalizer aluminum plate rattle can, airbrush and also tried regular acrylic aluminum paint as well with sucess.
3) For metalizer paints use metalizer sealer or the paint rubs off
4) Metalizers can be buffed with a cotton ball for shiny apperaence
5) Metallizers are often to shiny and unrealiztic looking (hence i tried aluminum paint)
6) Dont apply decals to bare metalizer...They dont stick well (I think)
7) Using both Metalizer aluminum plate and stainless steel, can give you a faded panel appearence.
HTH

A good idea Tread. I just love NMF's I have done a couple and I'm in the process of trying to perfect a NMF using kitchen foil. I have plenty of models that require this type of finish and with no end date I'd definately be in for a campaign or group build :-)
Mal

Tread and Staff

Regarding Alclad II, I've been asked to write an article about for the IPMS Sweden (paper media only). However if there's sufficient interest I could write something for this forum as well. If so, I would like to have a direct request from Staff about it with a dead-line.

This request of mine, might seem picky, but it's the stress factor (as usual)

Anyway, let me know.

Cheers
EW/Nordin

Howdy guys, and salutations!

Once again, glad to see some more interest in the idea of a Technique based Build, as opposed to a regular Campaign/Group Build. Not that there is anything wrong with the standard Campaign/Group Build scenario. It's a fine system, and allows the participants to focus on a particular subject matter. Thereby expanding their knowledge of that portion of the modeling 'world'.......great system!
My only addition to this tried and true methodology, is to add the appeal of directly addressing a particular technique, rather than building another model. My intent is, by focusing on the technique rather than the subject matter, that hopefully the inherent abilities of the core 'modeler' is more aptly adressed, and his/her skills are as aptly rewarded for the time spent.............that's all.
So......with that in mind.

to propboy: Your input is greatly appreciated! May I please request your participation in this wee Build so that your input can be hashed out properly, and hopefully we all learn something ?
Because, I for one would like some clarification regarding your opinions between the BMF and the Metalizer finishes......

to Holdfast: Well doggy....I sincerely appreciate your interest. Besides, I'll take anybody from the East Midlands (if for no other reason than our boys in Preston will thrash you in football! ) Actually, your participation is warmly accepted. And you plan to use "kitchen foil"??........Believe me, I'll be paying close attention to your bravery!

Thanks again guys.....I really appreciate your taking the time to post your allegiance to the idea, and more importantly, your commitment to (as the Discovery Channel always says), expanding your knowledge!

For the rest of you.........take a chance, take a step out of the Chicken Coop!........just remember to close the door behind you.

Tread.

I'm in, hey thread, are you going to make that B-24 you were talking about, I'd like to see that. what I am going to do is a P-51, one of those cheap revell kits I found at walmart, if it comes out good I will do my B-25 mitchell! I have been waiting this for so long!

Howdy EnsignWanker,

I sincerely appreciate your responding to this thread. I obviously don't know the 'what or whys' associated with your article writing request by the Swedish IPMS Association, but I will accept it on it's face value for now.
Base upon that face value, I can only respond by saying that I would of course embrace the idea of you writing an article about Alclad II for both this thread and/or for the main site as a Feature Article! I do not doubt that we would all enjoy an article along these lines.
But, since I obviously do not speak for the site (our superb, and extremely supportful Staff-Jim is the Man to speak to about that), I also, obviously cannot make a "direct request".
The best I can hope for is that our fearless leader, a Mr. Jim Starkweather, is reading this thread (or one of his dedicated Admin's) and thinks it's a good addition to the site as well!

From my personal point of view, I genuinely feel that any information left behind is fodder for complacency..........

Thx again for taking the time.

Tread.

Tread,

The Background is that one of the Board members of IPMS/SWE saw my 1/48 F-104 at the Nationals and asked me to write about it, since there's a lot of confusion about the Alclad.
I've done several "mature" a/c's in my past, plus another article on how to use Humbrol 11 to achieve a metal finish (paper media only).

Anyway, my offer is to write an article for the whole forum/site and not this particular thread/ campaign build of yours. So If there's enough interest, the article will centered around the F-104 which has 6 different shades of the Alclad range and I will address (sp?) most of the question that have been asked at the IPMS Stockholm site about Alclad.

And even if I myself can't take part in your thread/group build, I think your concept/idea is great

Well, have to hit the sack now so

Nordin

Howdy Nordin (if I have your permission to be so 'personal' )

I can only speak for myself when I say "Thank You" for both your interest, and your endorsement of this technique based Build. It is people like yourself (you obviously plan to write the article as an aid to your fellow modeler's) that help this hobby grow and mature. So, for that...Thanks.
To your kind and generous offer. I think your insight and experience as it pertains to the Alclad application would be quite valuable to the group as a whole. So, if we are not able to garuantee you a 'Feature Article' (although I cannot for the life of me think 'why not?'), the gallant particiapants whithin this endeavor would profit highly by your input and be equally grateful for your sharing spirit.

Warm regards,

Tread.

Well Howdy DRAGONSLAIN (I always feel like I'm yelling your name...)

Glad to count you amoungst us! I realized from the beginning that this would be a small Build, and I have nary a problem with that. I just keep thinking that, just like missing out on........ahhhhhh, never mind.

Your P-51 is an excellent choice, and the only real body contour that jumps to mind is the oil cooler....so, with any luck, it should go well!
As to your question about my new B-24.......well, I've already started fiddling with the bloody thing, but I have to keep running to the kitchen to throw cold water in my face so I wake up! and realize just how much I already have on and near my modeling desk!
(but it looks so tempting........ )
And the Mitchell you're talking about...is it the Accurate Miinatures or?

Tread.

My B-25 is a Revell model I just picked out from a hobby shop, and it was the only bomber they had wish they had a little more of these beasts.
by the way, am I supposed to cover the plane with metal foil? or can I use paint? and if I need foil What glue would I use for it? I see regular glue does not stick so well to it , so do you have an end date yet?

The interest in this is steadily growing and it's great that everyone is going a slightly different route for the technique and that there are so many different aircraft being used.

Currently there are no official campaigns in AC so there may be room for this. We need 10 people enlisted right now we have
1 - TreadHead
2 - OllieC-FWOL
3 - flitzer
4 - propboy44256
5 - Holdfast
6 - EnsignWanker
7 - DRAGONSLAIN
oh yea
8 - slodder

Maybe after the weekend we can pick a few more up. And if not we go with a Group Build and have fun that way.

Just thought I'd drop this in here (any excuse to post a picture :-) )
Painted using Alclad II, polishied using SNJ powder, the canopy framing is done with Bare Metal Foil.

Tread, just to clarify, I won't be using kitchen foil, I've been trying it out, with a view to writing an article. It looks quite good and is relatively easy to apply, but is time consuming and requires a bit more work to master. I will, more than likely be using Alclad II. A feature from Nordin on Alclad II would be most welcome, I'm happy using it, but I bet there is still a lot to learn
Oh, Tread, I err, didn't know Preston had a Football team :-)
Mal

Huh, what?

That GB is about NMF aircrafts, eh? Or can it be a technique we never used but are using on the model?

NMF is old game for me now, I have two Pursuits under my belt, and I'm looking forward to a lot more!

Re. Tread and the rest of you all

I just realized it would be more simple, to start a separate thread in this section of the forum, than getting a "formal reguest" from the Staff, and by so doing a larger piece.

So I will do a down-sized version of the Swedish variant, on how to work with Alclad, including one or two pics of the finished 104. I will keep it short and simple, since Alclad is, after all simple to use and not that "mysterious" that some seem to believe. Hopefully the thread/"article" will give some hints and tips for those that havent used Alclad before. And I think I will be able to post it, within 3 weeks from now on.

Anyway, I'll be off-line during this weekend, so catch you all on monday

EW/Nordin

Howdy fellas,

Thx slodder for the participant listing (although I'm not sure if OllieC is in fact interested, mybe he'll clarify for us?).

to DRAGONSLAIN: This little Build is designed around learning whatever technique you feel best fits your needs, and your interests.
For example (a bit of new news here), after doing my due diligence, and scouring the web for reference photos of the B-58 Hustler, I have come to the conclusion (albiet a little dissappointed) that to properly render my Hustler accurately, I will have to switch to painting with Alclad II, instead of skinning it with Bare Metal Foil like I originally intended.
I have found that there are just too many different shades of NMF on this bird to make the application of the BMF worth while. It would become just 'double' work to skin the aircraft, and then paint over that. Besides the overall NMF on the Hustler is not a 'mirror' finish. So.......

to HoldFast: Sweeeeeet Jabo! (and an even sweeter bit of nose art ). Really nice work on that '47 HoldFast. Why, pray tell, did you choose to apply BMF on the canopy instead of just.......wait, I understand.
How's that SNJ powder, is it easy to use? And does it make that much difference?
I also highly agree with you on our good member Nordin's 'featurette' about Alclad II, it would be most welcome indeed!

to 'EW': Well...that's bloody good news!! Mighty glad to hear you will be writing that 'featurette' for us all! I realize that it's not all that mysterious, but having someone who's done it successfully before and just throwing a few 'ABC's' at ya, is always a big help.
So, thanks for taking the time to include us in on your article writing audience.

regards,

Tread.

Oh....and since I'm (as usual) going to make it harder on myself by cutting out my control surfaces and resetting them in the 'true' operating position (I'm displaying my Hustler in an 'in-flight' pose, in a climbing left-hand bank), the "...within 3 weeks from now..." scenario will work out just dandy.
To do this I will be using my trusty jeweler's saw and carefully cutting around the perimeter of each of the large wing 'Elevons', as they're known as on the Hustler, and finishing them off as seperate units, finishing off the inside of the remaining wing itself, and then doing almost the same thing with the large tail Rudder. Cutting it out, finishing it off, and then remounting it in the 'rudder-left' position.
Yeah...I know, sounds silly right?.....But these are some of the things I like to do! I'm also a BIG fan of showing things (doors, tool chests, access panels) in the 'open' position as well!.........so shoot me.

,,,and seeing as I'm always one to 'help out'......here ya go HoldFast!

http://www.pnefc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Home

read and enjoy!

"Okay so much for the NMF, how about OD".

This is the YP-59 Airacomet being restored at Chino Planes of Fame

I just checked out a glue for foil but could I use anything else? what do you thinK? also thread, I just changed my mind on the P-51, it will be too hard to foil around the oil cooler, it is just too tight, instead I will try to paint a metallic finish on it and foil some P-47 I have laying around there. by the way, I found an article in the FSM website with a guide on foiling aircraft, I hope it helps you as most as it will help meclick here

I used the SNJ powder to give differing levels of "shine", by masking off panels and polishing them with the powder. This makes for a nice chrome looking aircraft, so it is brought back to reality with a panel wash of dark grey oil colour, after the decals are applied. The oils also leave a slight film, which tones down the to bright look of the Alclad, The drop tanks are straight Alclad, the gear doors are covered in kitchen foil, the first part of my experiment. For my next NMF I will use several different Alclad shades, rather than polish over one. However the SNJ powder is easy to use, it just gets everywhere, if you're not careful.
Mal

Hey HoldFast , Why does that P-47 look so familiar?. LOL Hey Tread whatz ZUP ??? Good idea . Go check out my Gallery for some BM aircraft ideas. Holdfast and I had posted threads on this idea previously. ENJOY.