I assume you are talking about air-to-air losses. We had only one loss in air-to-air combat (when I say we I am talking about the U.S. only). It was on Jan 17th. Lieutenant Commander Michael Scott Speicher's F/A-18 was shot down on the opening day of the war by a MIG-25PD. He left behind 2 children.

I would have to do a little more research to find out the total # of aircraft that where lost in ways other than air-to-air.

17Jan. - F18- VFA-81- SA-6--MIA
17Jan. -A6E- VA-35 - n/a --POW
18Jan. -A6E- VA-155- AAA --KIA
18Jan. -F15- 4th-TFW n/a --KIA
18Jan. -OV!0- VMO-2 - n/a --POW
19Jan. -F4G- 81FS/52TFW --fuel starvation--OK
20Jan. -F16- 614TFS/401TFW--n/a--POW
20Jan. -F15- 4thTFW--n/a--POW
20Jan. -F16- n/a--n/a--n/a
21Jan. -F14- VF-103--SA2--pilot/rescued-RIO/POW
24Jan. -F16- n/a--n/a--Pilot/rescued
28Jan. AV8B- VMA-311--n/a--POW
31Jan. AC130-n/a--FROG7--14KIA
2Feb. A6E- VA-36--AAA--MIA
2Feb. A10- n/a--AAA--POW
5Feb. F18- VFA-87--n/a--KIA
9Feb. AV8B- VMA-231--n/a--POW
14Feb. EF111- 42ECS/66ECW--terrain collision--KIA
14Feb. A10- 353TFS/354TFW--SAM--POW
14Feb. A10- 353TFS/354TFW--SAM--KIA
17Feb. F16- 17TFS/363TFW--AAA--Pilot/Rescued
19Feb. A10- 23TASS/602TACW--n/a--POW
20Feb. OH58- n/a--terrain collision--KIA
21Feb. MH60- Specops--n/a--7KIA
23Feb. AV8B- VMA542--SAM--KIA
25Feb. AV8B- VMA542--SAM--Pilot/Rescued
25Feb. OH58- n/a--Weather--OK
25Feb. OV10- VMO1--SAM--Pilot/POW--Observer/KIA
27Feb. F16- 10TFS/363TFW--SA6--POW
27Feb. UH60- 101AB/Div.--SAM--3POW/5KIA
27Feb. AV8B- VMA331--SAM--KIA
27Feb. A10- 23TASS/602TAW--AAA/weather--KIA
28Feb. UH60- 1stAVREG.--n/a--9KIA
28Feb. UH1- n/a--n/a--2KIA

Non-U.S. Losses
17Jan. Tornado GRMk.1--XVSqd.--Bird strike--POW-------RAF
18Jan. Tornado GRMk.1--XVSqd.--SAM--KIA-----------------RAF
20Jan. Tornado GRMk.1--27Sqd.--SAM--POW---------------RAF
22Jan. Tornado GRMk.1--16Sqd.--n/a--KIA-------------------RAF
23Jan. Tornado GRMk.1--17Sqd.--Weapons malfunction---POW---RAF
14Feb. Tornado GRMk.1--XVSqd.--SAM--Pilot/POW BN/KIA------RAF
17Jan. Tornado GRMk.1--55Stormo/155Gruppo--n/a--POW-----Italian Air Force
17Jan. A4--n/a--SAM--n/a-----------------------------------------------Kuwaiti Air Force

There are still a lot of discrepancies regarding LtCmdr. Speicher and his aircraft.
It is possible that his plane was hit by a MIG25 that several allied aircraft were tracking, but for numerous reasons, none engaged it.
It is also believed that there were malfunctions with his survival gear.
The wreckage of his aircraft has been investigated and the evidence shows he did eject from his aircraft.

It would be nice if the Iraqis simply returned him.
Alive would be a wonderful thing for his family.
If not, He can be laid to rest in his own country

More great info, where did you get it?




Is the FROG7 a type of aircraft? If so my source is wrong on there only being 1 air-to-air loss for the U.S. I can't remember if the FROG is a missle or some type of aircraft.

Anyone suprised by the data on air-to-air combat? I sure was, thats why I asked everyone else.

The biggest shock to me is that the F-16 didn't have any air-to-air victories (a close second is the A-10 having air-to-air victories). Mainly because of the sure number of sorties it flew. That plane was always in the air during the Gulf War. If I recall flew more missions than any other fixed wing combat aircraft, thats what I recall hearing on a documentary. I figured with that fact alone have gotten at least a few, if not a bunch. From the pictures I have seen they where always armed with some type of air-to-air missle.

I know the F-15 is our best air-to-air plane, but is it that much better than the rest? I didn't think so myself. I have always heard that the F-16 was a good dog fighter also, is that wrong? What do you guys and gals think?

The list with kills miss the more "bizarre" kills, like the F-15E with the LGB bomb, and a maneuvering kill made by an EF-111 that was down on the deck with terrain following radar while being chased by an Iraqi Mirage or MiG. I have seen those listed elsewhere.

Now if you're into modelling battle damage try making that A-10 that lost most of its wing and still made it back in safe. Talking about luck....

I believe the Weasel on the list is this F-4 that was leaking fuel, and was refueled once or twice on the way back but they crashed pretty close near the airfield.

The Brits lost percentage wise the most planes, they were mainly engaged in the runway cratering business.

Still, it's an amazing feat in history.

The only FROG-7 I know is a ground based rocket system like a scud. That's a bizarre missile to be hit by.

SAMs always have a (nato) code name starting with an G, .like Gaskin, Grail and Gopher.

Andrew,

The F-16 is standard armed with at least a pair of Sidewinders, but they were simply not tasked for air-to-air work.

USAF decided to have the Eagle do all the air defense work and the F16 all the ground pounding.

The F-16 is indeed a good dogfighter, but as you can see many of the kills are beoynd visual range with missiles. The AMRAAM was not available at the time in large quantities so it didn't make sense to equip the -16s with them either, and without those the -16 doesn't have a good BVR capability. The Eagle always did, therefore it makes sense that the planners decided to keep the Falcon out of the loop.

A few years later however they got their chance in Bosnia.

Frog7 is a type of SAM I believe.
My source was "Gulf Air War Debrief" from AIRtime publishing. Good info!!!

The F4G was hit by AAA. It did try to refuel but bad weather intervened. It attempted to land at a small Saudi base that was not properly equiped for instrument landings. After 4 aborted attempts the Phantom had fuel starvation on it's 5th approach. the crew ejected and were picked up.

Lambertjr,

The Frog 7 is a ground to ground rocket, like a scud missile on a launcher. Like I wrote earlier, that's a weird one to be hitting a plane

I have that Debrief book as well, it IS great! I can also recommend Vipers in the Storm and the two books by William Smallwood about the A-10 and the Strike Eagle squadrons.

Thanks for the clarification on the frog7..............i just couldn't remember.

Gen. Chuck Horners book "Every Man A Tiger" has some excellent info as well.
I am patiently waiting for someone to write a detailed account of the Naval aspect of the Gulf War.

Lambertjr,

I haven't started every man a tiger yet, but it is laying on the shelf

Don't really know any good books on the naval side except Hornets over Kuwait which was written by a Marine pilot, Jay Stout. Pretty fast paced reading, but only his account. Same goes for Vipers in the Storm by Rosenkranz.

Happy reading.

"Hornets over Kuwait" was great. I met Jay Stout,now a Major, several years ago. He autographed my copy of his book after I informed him that I used to live there in Beaufort S.C. , and my father was a Marine and had served in that Sqd. a long time ago.

Nice guy!!!!

The list of coalition is missing some entries I believe. From http://www.sci.fi/~fta/gulf.htm

Key:
Time - Z = Zulu time, L = local tme
Nation - RAF = Royal Air Force, FAF = French Air Force, KAF = Kuwaiti Air Force, IAF = Italian Air Force, RSAF = Royal Saudi Air Force
Causes - AAA - anti-aircraft artillery, SAM-IR = IR guided SAM, SAM-R = radar guided SAM

DATE TIME TYPE UNIT NATION LOCATION CAUSE
1/17 2012Z F-15E 4 TFW USAF 16nm SW Basra AAA
1/17 1933Z GR.1 617 SQ RAF 8nm NWW Tallil AAA
1/17 1327Z A-4 KAF 25nm S Kuw.City R-SAM
1/17 0200Z F/A-18C VFA-81 USN 29nm SE Baghdad MiG-25PD
1/17 0632Z GR.1 15 SQ RAF 1nm W Basrah R-SAM
1/17 2000Z A-6E VA-35 10nm SW H-3 R-SAM

1/18 1540Z A-6E VA-155 USN Marsh, SW Abadan AAA
1/18 0001Z GR.1 RAF 20nm NW Kuw.City ?
1/18 0610Z OV-10 USMC Ras Al Mishab IR-SAM

1/19 0642Z GR.1 617 SQ RAF 51nm SE Tallil IR-SAM
1/19 1700Z GR.1 15 SQ RAF H-3 R-SAM
1/19 2219Z F-15E 4 TFW USAF Al Qiam SA-2
1/19 GR.1 RSAF AAA
1/19 1404Z F-16C 401 TFW USAF 36nm W Tallil R-SAM
1/19 0255Z F-4G 35 TFW USAF 1nm N KKMC AAA
1/19 1557Z F-16C 401 TFW USAF Baghdad R-SAM

1/21 0354Z F-14A+ VF-103 USN H-2/H-3 SA-2

1/22 0200Z GR.1 16 SQ RAF N3306 E04002 ?

1/28 0707Z AV-8B USMC 15nm S Ahmadi AAA

1/31 0325Z AC-130H 1 SOW USAF 12nm N Khafji IR-SAM

2/2 0925Z A-10A 23 TFW USAF 20nm SW Kuw.Cty IR-SAM
2/2 0840Z A-6E USN 20nm E Kuw.Cty AAA

2/5 0610Z F/A-18 USN 40nm E. Kuw.Cty ?
2/5 1500L A-10A 354 TFW USAF AAA

2/7 GR.1 27 SQ RAF R-SAM

2/9 1340Z AV-8B USMC 24nm SW Kuw.Cty IR-SAM
2/9 F/A-18 USMC ? IR-SAM?

2/13 0630Z F-5E RSAF Near Wadi Al Kirk AAA
2/13 2239Z EF-111 20 TFW USAF 30nm NW Arar Manouvered into ground

2/14 0545Z GR.1 15 SQ RAF 50nm NW Baghdad R-SAM

2/15 1335Z A-10A 354 TFW USAF 60nm NW Kuw.Cty SA-13
2/15 1335Z A-10A 354 TFW USAF 60nm NW Kuw.Cty SA-13

2/19 0622Z OA-10A 23 TASS USAF 62nm NW Kuw.Cty IR-SAM

2/22 1500L A-10A 23 TFW USAF IR-SAM

2/23 1930Z AV-8B VMA-542 USMC 2nm W Kuw.Cty IR-SAM

2/25 0945Z OV-10 VMO-1 USMC S. Kuwait IR-SAM
2/25 0700Z AV-8B VMA-542 USMC Ali Al Salem IR-SAM

2/27 0932Z OA-10A 23 TASS USAF KKMC IR-SAM
2/27 0345Z AV-8B VMA-331 USMC 30nm NNE Kuw.Cty AAA
2/27 1600L F-16C 50 TFW USAF AAA

This list ignorse damaged aircraft that recoverd successfully.

I have no idea when the idea of a FROG-7 hit on an AC-130H came from, this list has it due to an IR-SAM, other sources further refine the loss as due to hand-held IR due to the fact it remained past dawn and hence was illuminated. The first list could have meant SAM-7; which is a hand-held IR guided SAM.

For a very detailed list of A-A combat scores, try http://www.sci.fi/~fta/score.htm

Cheers,
Linz

FROG is actually an acronym for Free Rocket Over Ground. Basically it is just a large bottle rocket pointed in the direction you want it to go to. Hard to imagine it as an AA weapon.

I remeber my dad telling me one time that when he was at Daharan(err is that how you spell it?)he saw a A-10 shot full of holes try to land on the runway but the plane gave way and the pilot had to eject.
Considering how much time we spent over there its hard to imagine that we lost all these planes.I for one never thought we lost this many.

I agree, but I know some rag-tag somali militia downed two of our Blackhawks with RPGs.
If it shoots, I guess one can use it for whatever they need it for.
I also remember a report of a allied aircraft using a AIM-7 to attack a Iraqi patrol boat.
Strange things happen in wartime.

We weren’t there long, but we really went to work during that short time. We flew 18,276 strategic sorties (missions) during that time. That figure is for all the allied forces, not just the United States. A strategic sortie is basically a single aircraft ground attack mission (bombs, air-to-ground missles, etc). This does not include electronic jamming, tankers, combat air patrols, search and rescue, etc. It is also worth noting that only 16% of the sorties during the war were strategic. That means the 18,276 figure is only 16% of the total missions flown. I don't feel like doing math but you can see that there where a ton of missions flown. When you look at that # and figure we can list all our losses on a single page, it is amazing. I have heard that if we had a training exercise that size we would have expected more losses even without someone trying to shoot our aircraft down.

I would encourage everyone to read a little about the gulf war. It is not anything like CNN showed us. There where some hard fought land battles. Iraq also had some good equipment. We weren't just fighting a bunch of idiots. They were a battle hardened army with some of the best Soviet and French equipment oil can buy (also some of our stuff, but thats a different story). We owe these guys and gals as much as our other veterans.

I just can't equate firing an RPG at a slow moving helicopter moving at a few hundred feet above ground to firing a large ballistic rocket at a fixed wing aircraft 1000ft up. Now an AIM at a patrol boat, I can see. Guided, heat source, target lock, shouldn't be too far fetched.

Not only that but these guys were seasoned veterans from the previous war with(was it Iran?)

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Code:

Not only that but these guys were seasoned veterans from the previous war with(was it Iran?)  

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Yes, it was Iran

The A-10 is one TOUGH SOB. I've got some video of some pretty messed up ones making it home. It was designed for a reason........To GIVE (and take) abuse.

Matt

Hi ,

Yes "Hogy" has very good armored "bath" for pilot , and very good rate for engine thrust and aircraft weight , A-10 knows how secure pilot lives.

Semper Fi