Air Campaigns
Want to start or join a group build? This is where to start.
Want to start or join a group build? This is where to start.
Hosted by Frederick Boucher, Michael Satin
Duel in the Sky: BF443 vs. Savage
bf443
Vendor
Idaho, United States
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 08:48 AM UTC
Welcome all to the "Gulf" Here is a brief history;
In 1973, Libya claimed the Gulf of Sidra to be within Libyan territorial waters by drawing a straight line between a point near Benghazi and the western headland of the gulf at Misratah This claim was not generally accepted, although only the United States presented a direct challenge by declaring that its ships would continue to regard all areas beyond a distance of 12 nautical miles from the coast as international waters. In response the President authorized Naval exercises in the Gulf of Sidra to conduct Freedom of Navigation (FON) operations. On several occasions, Libyan fighter planes harassed United States planes from carriers maneuvering in the area.
When the United States Sixth Fleet began exercises in August 1981, Libyan fighter planes were assembled from elsewhere in the country to fly patrols near the American ships. On August 19, two Su-22 fighter-bombers were intercepted by two F-14 Tomcat fighters from the aircraft carrier Nimitz. While trying to escort the Libyans out of the exercise area, one of the American planes was the target of an air-to-air Atoll missile but was able to evade it. Both Libyan planes were then shot down with Sidewinder missiles launched by the Tomcats. The two Libyan pilots managed to eject and were rescued from the sea. The ease with which the American planes disposed of their attackers demonstrated that the earlier generation Su-22 and its Atoll missile could not prevail against more sophisticated United States equipment.
Let the "Duel" begin..............................
Posted: Monday, August 14, 2006 - 03:20 AM UTC
In keeping with the spirit of a Duel…
‘Capitalist pigs! Our aircraft were flying a routine training mission over the Gulf of Sidra when they we seize upon by the American Cowboys and shot down! At the time of the incident they were unarmed!’
Above is a précised version (with HEAVY artistic licence) of the initial press release from the former Libyan Ministry of Information.
The knowledgeable seem to have a consensus in that the two downed Su-22s were Su-22M-3K (Fitter-J) variants. In my stash I only have the following variants in 1/72 scale:
HobbyCraft’s Su-22M-2K (Fitter-F)
Italeri/Biltek’s Su-22UM-3K (Fitter-G)
Italeri/Biltek’s Su-22M-4 (Fitter-K)
As the Su-22M-3K (Fitter-J) uses an upgraded Su-17UM-2D airframe, it appears easiest to ‘upgrade’ the HobbyCraft Su-22M-2K (Fitter-F) to a Su-22M-3K (Fitter-J).
Unlike Brian, I get almost total ‘carte blanche’ on the Su-22’s camouflage and armaments, as the Libyan Sukhoi’s seem to have been delivered (and have remained) in almost every type of camouflage known to the Soviets and there is no consensus as to the armaments carried except for the AA-2 Atoll air-to-air missile naturally. :-)
‘Capitalist pigs! Our aircraft were flying a routine training mission over the Gulf of Sidra when they we seize upon by the American Cowboys and shot down! At the time of the incident they were unarmed!’
Above is a précised version (with HEAVY artistic licence) of the initial press release from the former Libyan Ministry of Information.
The knowledgeable seem to have a consensus in that the two downed Su-22s were Su-22M-3K (Fitter-J) variants. In my stash I only have the following variants in 1/72 scale:
HobbyCraft’s Su-22M-2K (Fitter-F)
Italeri/Biltek’s Su-22UM-3K (Fitter-G)
Italeri/Biltek’s Su-22M-4 (Fitter-K)
As the Su-22M-3K (Fitter-J) uses an upgraded Su-17UM-2D airframe, it appears easiest to ‘upgrade’ the HobbyCraft Su-22M-2K (Fitter-F) to a Su-22M-3K (Fitter-J).
Unlike Brian, I get almost total ‘carte blanche’ on the Su-22’s camouflage and armaments, as the Libyan Sukhoi’s seem to have been delivered (and have remained) in almost every type of camouflage known to the Soviets and there is no consensus as to the armaments carried except for the AA-2 Atoll air-to-air missile naturally. :-)
bf443
Vendor
Idaho, United States
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 03:03 AM UTC
[/IMG] Airframe components delivered to Grumman :-)
Brian
Brian
Posted: Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 08:59 PM UTC
Taken from a Memo issued by the Libyan Ministry of Information:
“As can be seen in the photograph below, the components for our Strike Aircraft have been delivered. Assembly is to proceed at once. Remember that our pilots will most likely be going up against the ‘American Cowboys’ in these aircraft, so insure that they are assembled with the utmost care!”
IMHO AM decals for the Libyan Su-22 are unnecessary!
“As can be seen in the photograph below, the components for our Strike Aircraft have been delivered. Assembly is to proceed at once. Remember that our pilots will most likely be going up against the ‘American Cowboys’ in these aircraft, so insure that they are assembled with the utmost care!”
IMHO AM decals for the Libyan Su-22 are unnecessary!
Removed by original poster on 12/20/06 - 04:02:32 (GMT).
bf443
Vendor
Idaho, United States
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 02:07 AM UTC
Hello everyone,
My division of Grumman Ironworks has been very slow. For the sake of time and almost certain military cutbacks I scaled down to 1/72. I do have an airframe ready to prime. Somehow I see an SU-22 in my future!
Sincerely,
Brian
My division of Grumman Ironworks has been very slow. For the sake of time and almost certain military cutbacks I scaled down to 1/72. I do have an airframe ready to prime. Somehow I see an SU-22 in my future!
Sincerely,
Brian
Posted: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 02:42 AM UTC
Information has been released that a group of GE workers were detained for questioning at a central Police station in Tripoli earlier this week as they were finishing up their contracted work at a central Libyan Milk Production Plant near Tripoli. A political dispute has been raging at high levels all week. Upon arriving back on US soil the workers were debriefed about the Libyan incident.
The President has been in cabinet meetings all day long as officials of the pentagon have reportedly conclusive proof that the Milk Production Plant is indeed a secret plant for building aircraft, namely the Sukhoi 22.
Information has been leaked to the press that the GE workers indeed did see aircraft being built, but a high ranking GE spokesperson has denied the whole affair as being "nonsense" and the workers have been directly told not to comment on the whole issue.
As of yet the Libyan Government has not been able to provide any proof one way or another. The question is still if this plant is building Sukhoi fighter aicraft and if so why.
We will stay on premise to give you all of the late-breaking news as this situation evolves.
Brian Kuehn live for Aeroscale News at Tripoli, Libya
The President has been in cabinet meetings all day long as officials of the pentagon have reportedly conclusive proof that the Milk Production Plant is indeed a secret plant for building aircraft, namely the Sukhoi 22.
Information has been leaked to the press that the GE workers indeed did see aircraft being built, but a high ranking GE spokesperson has denied the whole affair as being "nonsense" and the workers have been directly told not to comment on the whole issue.
As of yet the Libyan Government has not been able to provide any proof one way or another. The question is still if this plant is building Sukhoi fighter aicraft and if so why.
We will stay on premise to give you all of the late-breaking news as this situation evolves.
Brian Kuehn live for Aeroscale News at Tripoli, Libya
bf443
Vendor
Idaho, United States
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Monday, January 01, 2007 - 12:00 PM UTC
Hello everyone,
Here is my progress so far on the VF-41 Tomcat. I primed and later pre-shaded the panel lines with flat black paint. I then applied an overall Gull Grey (FS 36440) according to my decal reference. Since the kit has raised panel lines I decided to use a fine ink pen to follow the lines (first for me) here is the end result so far. The lines seem rather harsh to me and I want to tone them down. I was thinking of applying another light coat of 36440 or maybe some color of ground pastel?
I would like some advise, could you please give me your take on an appropriate pathway.
Sincerely,
Brian
Here is my progress so far on the VF-41 Tomcat. I primed and later pre-shaded the panel lines with flat black paint. I then applied an overall Gull Grey (FS 36440) according to my decal reference. Since the kit has raised panel lines I decided to use a fine ink pen to follow the lines (first for me) here is the end result so far. The lines seem rather harsh to me and I want to tone them down. I was thinking of applying another light coat of 36440 or maybe some color of ground pastel?
I would like some advise, could you please give me your take on an appropriate pathway.
Sincerely,
Brian
Posted: Monday, January 01, 2007 - 12:48 PM UTC
Hi Brian!
I would do what you suggested and apply an almost translucent coat of light grey. What I usually do is mix (50/50) Tamiya acrylic paint with Klir (Future). The mix is transparent and gives a nice satin finish. I don't know what paint you are using but if you want to try this out, make a test before! It's not the moment to do some experiments on an almost finished project...
Jean-Luc
I would do what you suggested and apply an almost translucent coat of light grey. What I usually do is mix (50/50) Tamiya acrylic paint with Klir (Future). The mix is transparent and gives a nice satin finish. I don't know what paint you are using but if you want to try this out, make a test before! It's not the moment to do some experiments on an almost finished project...
Jean-Luc
bf443
Vendor
Idaho, United States
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Monday, January 01, 2007 - 06:58 PM UTC
Hello Jean-Luc,
I will give the 50/50 paint a try. I used model master enamels so I will need to cut it with enamel thinner. Should I cut the ratio down more with the enamel thinner? I do like future for that gloss finish but I don't want a reaction between acrylic and enamel at this stage either! Thank you for the suggestion. I will post more progress on Wednesday. Have a good day.
Sincerely,
Brian
I will give the 50/50 paint a try. I used model master enamels so I will need to cut it with enamel thinner. Should I cut the ratio down more with the enamel thinner? I do like future for that gloss finish but I don't want a reaction between acrylic and enamel at this stage either! Thank you for the suggestion. I will post more progress on Wednesday. Have a good day.
Sincerely,
Brian
bf443
Vendor
Idaho, United States
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 11:55 AM UTC
Hello everyone,
I have progressed a little farther. I did as suggested and used a heavily thinned mixture of Gull Gray (FS36440). I sprayed this over the panel lines. I then follwed with a less thinned mix of Gull Gray over the entire model. After that had some time to dry I then mixed Gull Gray with a dozen drops of flat white and applied it from the center of each panel out to the edges.
I think the effect definately toned down the panel lines and there is a subtle variation in the base color. I was not sure how appealing an overall Gull Grey Tomcat would be but I am quickly starting to like it. Friday I will start on the cockpit, wheel bays, landing gear and a gloss coat. I will post more pictures then.
Sincerely,
Brian
I have progressed a little farther. I did as suggested and used a heavily thinned mixture of Gull Gray (FS36440). I sprayed this over the panel lines. I then follwed with a less thinned mix of Gull Gray over the entire model. After that had some time to dry I then mixed Gull Gray with a dozen drops of flat white and applied it from the center of each panel out to the edges.
I think the effect definately toned down the panel lines and there is a subtle variation in the base color. I was not sure how appealing an overall Gull Grey Tomcat would be but I am quickly starting to like it. Friday I will start on the cockpit, wheel bays, landing gear and a gloss coat. I will post more pictures then.
Sincerely,
Brian
Posted: Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 03:55 PM UTC
Hi Brian!
Looks much better now!
I hope you're gonna make it until Saturday...
Jean-Luc
Looks much better now!
I hope you're gonna make it until Saturday...
Jean-Luc
bf443
Vendor
Idaho, United States
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Friday, January 05, 2007 - 02:59 PM UTC
Hello Jean-Luc,
I painted the cockpit, wheel bay and gear, exhaust and the tires. I just finished spraying a gloss coat (0230 hrs.) Decals will go on later this morning, I'll post some photos after that.
Sincerely,
Brian
I painted the cockpit, wheel bay and gear, exhaust and the tires. I just finished spraying a gloss coat (0230 hrs.) Decals will go on later this morning, I'll post some photos after that.
Sincerely,
Brian
bf443
Vendor
Idaho, United States
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 09:37 AM UTC
Hello everyone!
Success! I have completed the VF-41 Tomcat. Had a few family events (3 Y/O) along the way almost caused the aircraft to ditch but luck and skill prevailed LOL :-)
Mediteranean Sea - After flying against those goofballs last week we bathed in the limelight of success. My maintenance crew saw it fit to add our "Kill" to the Cat Tails. Those Libyian pilots are not as daring today "To bad, all of us in the squadron want to meet, sit down, have a few laughs! Send us more SU-22's you Savage Kadafi !!!
Jean-Luc, thank you for the "Duel build" and extending the time another week. Savage your welcome to fly with me "Anytime Baby!"
Sincerely,
Brian
Success! I have completed the VF-41 Tomcat. Had a few family events (3 Y/O) along the way almost caused the aircraft to ditch but luck and skill prevailed LOL :-)
Mediteranean Sea - After flying against those goofballs last week we bathed in the limelight of success. My maintenance crew saw it fit to add our "Kill" to the Cat Tails. Those Libyian pilots are not as daring today "To bad, all of us in the squadron want to meet, sit down, have a few laughs! Send us more SU-22's you Savage Kadafi !!!
Jean-Luc, thank you for the "Duel build" and extending the time another week. Savage your welcome to fly with me "Anytime Baby!"
Sincerely,
Brian
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 04:22 AM UTC
As is our nature we have, oblivious to the American Pigs, been working on our Aircraft in total secrecy….
Unfortunately the last couple of months have been rather hectic. My daughter had an operation on her leg (leg lengthening), this has seen me doing the nursing bit. A role for which I am NOT suited at all. This has left me precious little time for modelling.
I was hoping to finish at least one of the Duels and my Club Med entry. Well we’ll see….
This has been an interesting build. This kit has an interior that makes Airfix kits look detailed, to correct this I ordered a full resin cockpit and some PE for the Su-22. These items (plus a few other supplies I was hoping to have) seem to have been lost in the mail.
I decided that I would try to upgrade the cockpit the old fashioned way. The first hurdle, namely the cockpit was detailed using Plasticard and some paint. A joystick was built up from some scraps.
The armchair that served as an ejection seat was discarded and I tried to fashion a K36 Ejection seat as best I could (it still needs some seat belts).
All went well until Friday when the primer was sprayed, I had forgotten the golden rule; ALWAYS WASH THE SPRUES. I had been in such a hurry to finish that I forgotten to do this. When I went to start the camouflage yesterday morning, I found that the primer had bubbled, was very prone to peeling and in some places was still wet. I sanded (and scrapped) off the primer as best I could, the kit was washed, dried and wiped off with a cloth containing Spirits - I then tried the primer once more. This morning I found that the primer hadn’t taken in some places and these spots had to be sanded, cleaned up and the primer reapplied. This time I used a quick drying auto-primer.
There still appears to be a few issues that need resolving, but I’m still in the game (till midnight that is). Needless to say I’ll finish this campaign (even if it is after the deadline), just to ensure Brian has a target for his F-14.
A few progress photos:
As the build is at present:
Brian - Great build you have there!
Jean-Luc - Thanks for a great campaign!
Unfortunately the last couple of months have been rather hectic. My daughter had an operation on her leg (leg lengthening), this has seen me doing the nursing bit. A role for which I am NOT suited at all. This has left me precious little time for modelling.
I was hoping to finish at least one of the Duels and my Club Med entry. Well we’ll see….
This has been an interesting build. This kit has an interior that makes Airfix kits look detailed, to correct this I ordered a full resin cockpit and some PE for the Su-22. These items (plus a few other supplies I was hoping to have) seem to have been lost in the mail.
I decided that I would try to upgrade the cockpit the old fashioned way. The first hurdle, namely the cockpit was detailed using Plasticard and some paint. A joystick was built up from some scraps.
The armchair that served as an ejection seat was discarded and I tried to fashion a K36 Ejection seat as best I could (it still needs some seat belts).
All went well until Friday when the primer was sprayed, I had forgotten the golden rule; ALWAYS WASH THE SPRUES. I had been in such a hurry to finish that I forgotten to do this. When I went to start the camouflage yesterday morning, I found that the primer had bubbled, was very prone to peeling and in some places was still wet. I sanded (and scrapped) off the primer as best I could, the kit was washed, dried and wiped off with a cloth containing Spirits - I then tried the primer once more. This morning I found that the primer hadn’t taken in some places and these spots had to be sanded, cleaned up and the primer reapplied. This time I used a quick drying auto-primer.
There still appears to be a few issues that need resolving, but I’m still in the game (till midnight that is). Needless to say I’ll finish this campaign (even if it is after the deadline), just to ensure Brian has a target for his F-14.
A few progress photos:
As the build is at present:
Brian - Great build you have there!
Jean-Luc - Thanks for a great campaign!