JRatz; I think I will have an answer for you in a couple of days. In the mean time here is a bit of fun. Vzfw. Festner is sitting by MvR on the wing root of the Baron's Alb. D.III. MvR in the cockpit of course.

Howdy fellas,

Been quietly lurkin' on this thread from the beginning, and am enjoying the interchange Some bloody good stuff.

As much as I might like to join in, I have another financial priority that I am focusing on at the moment, and shall for now not be buying any new kits. But, as a self-indulgent bit of 'window shopping', I would request of the learned audience here some info regarding this Campaign.....if you don't mind?

I am thinking along the lines of the SPAD VII vs. ? In nice colourful markings, nothing too intricate {would require tools I do not posess at the moment}, and in 1/32nd scale?
I know {?} I can't use the Seminole insignia because that didn't appear till October, right?

Suggestions most welcome

Tread.

Tread,

On a quick look thru the books, SPAD VII equipped 19 Sqn and 23 Sqn, RFC during Bloody April. 23 Sqn was also equipped with FE.2's. Both Sqn were on the fringes of things. They claimed kills aganst a few 2-seaters and a few D.III; I didn't tally their losses - although I see that on one instance a flight of Naval 8 Tripes tried to down one of the 19 Sqn birds -- not sure if that fits the combat Stephen was looking for. :-)

You are talking RFC, so "colorful" is not applicable.

I can do more research if you want a specific combat. I'm not a SPAD guy so my references are limited.

John

Stephen

Here is my reearch to date: Festner, Vizefeldwebel Sebastian

1. Bloody April, Slaughter in the Skies over Arras; Hart; 2005
-- pgs 134,197
-- p192, photos
Q50328, J11 aircraft, cannot see 2251/16, nor the "Kagero a/c"
Q42283, J11 pilots around MvR & his aircraft

2. Casualties of the German Air Service 1914-1920; Franks, Bailey, Duiven; 1999
-- p40, Alpha List: b 30 June 1894, Holzkirchen, d 23 April 1917
-- p209, Chron List: d 25 April 1917, Gavrelle

3. Bloody April ... Black September; Franks, Guest, Bailey; 1995
-- pgs 13,15,27,28,30,36,45,51,68,112
-- p30, 8 April, flying Alb D.II 223/16, forced down by wing crack in combat with 60 Sqn
-- p50, 16 April, time change, German now one hour ahead of Allied.
-- p68, 25 April, part of J11 early patrol near Oppy spotted 1-1/2 Strutters of 43 Sqn. He attacked A8232 (Lt C. R. O'Brien, 2Lt J. L. Dickson) and rear gunner hit the red Albatros (2251/16) at 0815 (A) 0915 German - and Festner fell to his death. The a/c fell just inside Brit lines and was noted as G.26, but as it was under observation and shell fire from German artillery, it was not salvaged. Brit AA claimed an Alb over Gavrelle. There was only one Alb claim that day by Brit.
-- p109, 25 April, Festner, J11, KIA, Gavrelle, Alb DIII 2251/16. These would be claim #3 for O'Brien, #2 for Dickson
-- photo of 43 Sqn Strutter shows Ltr * Nbr on fuselage (ie, A*6), do not know flight or a/c of A8232.

4. Albatros Aces of World War 1; Franks; 2000; Osprey Aircraft of the Aces 32
-- p32, Baron had all-red aircraft and others had "areas of red" with an individual colour to denote each ... Kurt Wolff green ... no mention of Festner's colour.
-- p33, Festner, on 25 April, became J11's only casualty shot down attacking BE.2s in Alb 2251/16.

5. Richthofen's Eleven Jasta 11; Zbiebniewski; 2005; Kagero Legends of Aviation 3
-- p15, photo, J11 pilots, incl Festner, around MvR & his aircraft
-- p17, 25 April - Festner shot down over Oppy after skirmish with Sopwith's from 43 Sqn ... killed by bullets of ... Dickson ... gunner ... of O'Brien piloting A3282. The wreckage of Alb DIII 2251/16 was found in the morning in front of British lines, the body of the 22-year old pilot sitting calmly amidst the wreckage.
-- p64, color profile of Festner's 2251/16. Factory to back of cockpit, then all red, green band around fuselage with cross thereon.
-- "Selected" Bibliography: is heavily Franks, incl refs here

6. Albatros D.III; Grosz; 2003; Windsock Datafile Special
nothing on Festner, 2251/16, or anything like the "Kagero a/c".

7. Aerodrome Forum
Wounded while serving in the infantry, Festner joined the German Air Force in 1914. He served as a mechanic before becoming a pilot in 1916. After flying two-seaters, he was assigned to Jasta 11 where he scored all of his victories. Flying an all red Albatros D.III, Festner shot down ten opponents during April 1917. ... Two days after becoming the second man to receive the Member's Cross of the Order of the House of Hohenzollern, Festner was killed in a crash during combat.

8. Notes:
Oppy and Gavrelle are about 1.7 km apart - tough to differentiate and the most familiar or closest to the observer could have been the frame of reference -- in short, too close to be significant.

Bottom Line: Same author(s) Franks, et al, have conflicting data in same book and across books. I think no one knows for sure. None pof them have a decent, if any, bibliography so who knows where their data comes from ...

I would like to know how to find the British marker "G.26" - that may clarify the markings on 2251/16

I'd be glad to interpret my notes for anyone with a question.

I actually love it when my modeling leads me down all sorts of historical rabbit holes.

BTW: In your picture acouple posts back, Festner is actually standing, 3rd from left. This and his "Sanke" are the only two photos I've found of him ... If the a/c in his "Sanke" is 2251/16 then it confirms the factory finish up front, but nothing else about the markings.

John

O.K. guys,

I'm in! Though I may have over extended myself signing up for campaigns. I just bought the Roden Ernst Udet Fokker and I should be able to get it done by June. I have never built a Bipe and this should prove educational. Either way, you WWI guys are influencing me horribly! :-)

-Derek

How are we doing?

So far cannot find any seperate topics for this groubuild. I made my first start on the FE2b last weekend, long way to go...

Nico

Probably not enough volume for separate topics -- just post here.

I, too, have started -- I was waiting an appropriate place to post some pix and info ... maybe by the weekend.

John

Essentially folks this thread is for everyone to sound off on. I suggest that we go to the Early Aviation title and begin our individual builds our own threads. Post the link here for your build(s). Sort of like a trail of bread crumbs using this thread as the anchor.


JRazt has volunteered to keep the records as it were. Though we had lots of voting for this subject it maybe that only we few band of brothers will be able to carry the "Blood ribbon" . Lets have at it. No turning back.
Here is a special offer. To all participants who have signed up I'll offer a free download from my website for your specific builds. If you go to my website and see a subject that matches your build I'll send you a free download.

For instance if you are doing an Eduard Alb. D.III and an Eduard Nieuport 17, I'll send you a free kit review download of each. This is only pertinent to the subject on my website. (I have download versions for just about everything I have on the CD stuff.) The CD just have more images and actual aircraft.

But you have to ...

1. be signed up for the Campaign.
2. have your own build thread on the Early Aviation Title.
3. provide me with your e-mail.

Bloody April Campaign Info:

We have 5 people formally signed up under Campaigns. Here is what I understand from reading the thread.

JackFlash (Stephen Lawson):
-- combatants not listed

jRatz (John Ratzenberger)
-- Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter of 43 Sqn, RFC, shoots down Vfz Festner, Jasta 11 ace flying Alb. D.III, 25 April -- more details coming in build thread.

KitBoy (Nico Teunissen)
-- MvR flying Alb D.III vs Aeroclub FE2b

Lucky13 (Jan Bojarp)
-- Kurt Wolff flying Alb D.III vs Spad VII

Percheron ( )
-- Udet Fokker ??? vs ??? Not sure this is April 1917.

Three people have indicated interest, but have not formally signed up - please do so if you are going to participate.

HunterCottage (Brian Kuehn)
-- Italian subject ?

Betheyn (Andy Brazier)
-- Allmenroder in Alb D.III vs BE2c

TreadHead (Gordon Alexander Rain)
-- Spad VII ?? vs ??

If I have any errors or omissions, send me a PM or reply here and I'll fix up the list. We'll keep this thread as the central admin & chit-chat list, but Stephen wants each of us to put build threads in Early Aviation. I'm working on getting mine started, I'm just a bit buried right now.

John

Greetings all;

KitBoy (Nico Teunissen)
-- MvR flying Alb D.III vs Aeroclub FE2b

Is dead serious. I just sent him a download on Jasta 11 during Bloody April 1917 and the Eduard 1/48, Alb. D.III kit review.

My build thread is started over in the "Early Aviation" Forum ...


John

Bloody April Campaign Info:

We have 5 people formally signed up under Campaigns. Here is what I understand from reading the thread.

JackFlash (Stephen Lawson):
-- My builds will consist of the combat on 6 April 1917 bewteen Ltn. von Bertrab of Jasta 30 and 2 of the Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutters from 45 Sqdn RFC. Not sure which one to model but thinking about A 1093.
-- 6 April 1917 10.30 vic Obigies; Ltn. von Bertrab shoots down, for victory #3, Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter #A.1093, 45 Sqn. RFC, 2/Lt. J.A. Marshall, KIA & 2/Lt. F.G. Truscott,KIA.
-- 6 April 1917 10.30 vic Becq; Ltn. von Bertrab shoots down, for victory #4, Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter #A.2381, 45 Sqn. RFC, 2/Lt. C. St. G. Campbell, KIA & Capt. D.W. Edwards,KIA.

jRatz (John Ratzenberger)
-- Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter of 43 Sqn, RFC, shoots down Vzfw Festner, Jasta 11 ace flying Alb. D.III, 25 April -- more details are in the build thread.

KitBoy (Nico Teunissen)
-- MvR flying Alb D.III vs Aeroclub FE2b; more details in the build thread.

Lucky13 (Jan Bojarp)
-- Kurt Wolff flying Alb D.III vs Spad VII ???

Percheron ( )
-- Udet Fokker ??? vs ??? Not sure this is April 1917.

Three people have indicated interest, but have not formally signed up - please do so if you are going to participate, or let me know if you do not intend to.

HunterCottage (Brian Kuehn)
-- Italian subject ?

Betheyn (Andy Brazier)
-- Allmenroder in Alb D.III vs BE2c

TreadHead (Gordon Alexander Rain)
-- Spad VII ?? vs ??

If I have any errors or omissions, send me a PM or reply here and I'll fix up the list. We'll keep this thread as the central admin & chit-chat list, but Stephen wants each of us to put build threads in Early Aviation. I'm working on getting mine started, I'm just a bit buried right now.

John the Scribe

Bloody April Campaign Info: I will post the URL to the individual builds here.

We have 5 people formally signed up under Air Campaigns.

JackFlash (Stephen Lawson):
-- My builds will consist of the combat on 6 April 1917 bewteen Ltn. von Bertrab of Jasta 30 and 2 of the Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutters from 45 Sqdn RFC. Not sure which one to model but thinking about A 1093.
-- 6 April 1917 10.30 vic Obigies; Ltn. von Bertrab shoots down, for victory #3, Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter #A.1093, 45 Sqn. RFC, 2/Lt. J.A. Marshall, KIA & 2/Lt. F.G. Truscott,KIA.
-- 6 April 1917 10.30 vic Becq; Ltn. von Bertrab shoots down, for victory #4, Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter #A.2381, 45 Sqn. RFC, 2/Lt. C. St. G. Campbell, KIA & Capt. D.W. Edwards,KIA.

See; JackFlash's build
____________________________________________________________
jRatz (John Ratzenberger)
-- Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter of 43 Sqn, RFC, shoots down Vzfw Festner, Jasta 11 ace flying Alb. D.III, 25 April -- more details are in the build thread.

See; JRatz's build
____________________________________________________________
KitBoy (Nico Teunissen)
-- MvR flying Alb D.III vs Aeroclub FE2b; more details in the build thread.

See; Nico's build
___________________________________________________________
Lucky13 (Jan Bojarp)
-- Kurt Wolff flying Alb D.III vs Spad VII ???

___________________________________________________________

Percheron ( )
-- Udet Fokker ??? vs ??? Not sure this is April 1917.

___________________________________________________________

Three people have indicated interest, but have not formally signed up - please do so if you are going to participate, or let me know if you do not intend to.

HunterCottage (Brian Kuehn)
-- Italian subject ?

Betheyn (Andy Brazier)
-- Allmenroder in Alb D.III vs BE2c

TreadHead (Gordon Alexander Rain)
-- Spad VII ?? vs ??

Good people;

Don't let this be just about my builds. Let me encourage you. The votes are in, the sign in log is still open. Some builds seem stalled. Kick start them. There were 30 people that chose this topic. I humbly encourage you to stay the course. Get er dun!!!

Here it is June at last. The time is almost on us. What with vacations, job requirements and other concerns, I'm afraid there are many missing in action. (Tapping my fuel gauge.) I should be done in the near future as I have about 5 days left on the last build.

ATTENTION!!! We have had a couple of requests to extend the finish date. So it will be moved to July 31st.

I just posted pictures of a Nieuport 17 flown by French Ace, Capitaine Armand Jean Galliot Joseph de Turenne. As his opponent, I submitted an Albatros DIII in the famous Doffodil Camoflauge Scheme. Records show de Turenne shot down an Albatros DV in April 1917. It was more likely a DIII though. I really enjoyed the campaign. The Eduard Nieuport kit is probably the best kit I have ever put together. It went together with absolutely no problems, took paint well, and the decals were a pleasure. The Roden DIII was a bear, but came out nice, due to my unwillingness to let it beat me. I have photos of the Albatros Build-up if anybody is interested. I can post them on this thread.

Blue skys forever.

Please post them here or give us a link to where you posted them.

They are at the Bloody April Campaign Posting site

Greeting folks. The Gallery for the Aeroscale Bloody April 1917 campaign is here.

Gallery for Bloody April 1917

Coming close to the end of the run. Just a few more hours til July 31st. I have a speech prepared for the close out. Ok I'll keep it short.

Will you then start up another campaign for WWI? Maybe something where a D VII could be included

I must declare the Air Campaign for Bloody April 1917 done and over. I want to thank ALL of the participants. Good work and valiant attempts were made. Next time we'll stick to one build each or make it a year long project.

I submit the roll call of participants who successfully accomplished the goal and others who put out valiant efforts.

JackFlash
Kitboy
CapatinA
RAGIII
J.Ratz