http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=SKY48040&PIC_NO=1
or
http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=SKY48039
Nige, I've had a bash at doing my own website in the past (keeping it updated is the hardest part) so if you need any assistance just ask
World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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Aeroscale P-47 Thunderbolt SIG
Tomcat31
#042
Joined: November 18, 2006
KitMaker: 2,828 posts
AeroScale: 1,720 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 11:34 AM UTC
I too have the Sky Models decal sheet mentioned which includes 'Miss Fire' (in 1/48) as I intended to do that a/c at some point along with some of the others on that sheet. I have to say that it's really good value for money (if you find one) for the the amount of decals you get but you will need Stars and Bars and stencil from your stock kit though
http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=SKY48040&PIC_NO=1
or
http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=SKY48039
Nige, I've had a bash at doing my own website in the past (keeping it updated is the hardest part) so if you need any assistance just ask
http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=SKY48040&PIC_NO=1
or
http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=SKY48039
Nige, I've had a bash at doing my own website in the past (keeping it updated is the hardest part) so if you need any assistance just ask
rdriscoll
Joined: November 24, 2007
KitMaker: 180 posts
AeroScale: 50 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 11:39 AM UTC
Last one. Gabby's famous P-47D-25:
DVD Fight for the Sky 8th Air Force Aces Mayday!Mayday!Mayday!
4 shots. What I am trying to highlight is:
1. Lack of Black in the Invasion stripes. Note the black border on the white fuselage stripes.
2. Detail on what the exact camouflage pattern is on the Upper wings
DVD Fight for the Sky 8th Air Force Aces Mayday!Mayday!Mayday!
4 shots. What I am trying to highlight is:
1. Lack of Black in the Invasion stripes. Note the black border on the white fuselage stripes.
2. Detail on what the exact camouflage pattern is on the Upper wings
lampie
#029
Joined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 6,249 posts
AeroScale: 3,270 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 11:51 AM UTC
Hi Rex.
Great stills, I will have to get hold of a copy of that DVD for the collection, do you have a link for it?
Interestingly, as well as the different style kill markings, (and less of them) is the missing "Rozzie Geth II" name on the starboard side.
The missing nose art could easily be explained as the panels were removable and it is known that some with particularly elaborate artwork were transferred to other aircraft by the pilot., Russ Kylers "Lorene" for example.
I would say that its pretty certainly a different P47 to "Miss Fire"
42-26337 was originally coded LM-C but was later recoded LM-G and subsequently lost on 18th Sept 1944.
42-28806, Lt Townsend Parsons aircraft was also coded LM-C according to Little Friends.
Hope this goes some way to solving your mystery.
Nige
Edit.
Rex, look closely at the first two photos, viewed from the starboard side.
Theres an extra row of kill markings on the second photo.
Looks as though there was a bit of creative editing by the PR Dept going on.
2 different planes.
Nige
Great stills, I will have to get hold of a copy of that DVD for the collection, do you have a link for it?
Interestingly, as well as the different style kill markings, (and less of them) is the missing "Rozzie Geth II" name on the starboard side.
The missing nose art could easily be explained as the panels were removable and it is known that some with particularly elaborate artwork were transferred to other aircraft by the pilot., Russ Kylers "Lorene" for example.
I would say that its pretty certainly a different P47 to "Miss Fire"
42-26337 was originally coded LM-C but was later recoded LM-G and subsequently lost on 18th Sept 1944.
42-28806, Lt Townsend Parsons aircraft was also coded LM-C according to Little Friends.
Hope this goes some way to solving your mystery.
Nige
Edit.
Rex, look closely at the first two photos, viewed from the starboard side.
Theres an extra row of kill markings on the second photo.
Looks as though there was a bit of creative editing by the PR Dept going on.
2 different planes.
Nige
lampie
#029
Joined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 6,249 posts
AeroScale: 3,270 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 12:19 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I too have the Sky Models decal sheet mentioned which includes 'Miss Fire' (in 1/48) as I intended to do that a/c at some point along with some of the others on that sheet. I have to say that it's really good value for money (if you find one) for the the amount of decals you get but you will need Stars and Bars and stencil from your stock kit though
http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=SKY48040&PIC_NO=1
or
http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=SKY48039
Nige, I've had a bash at doing my own website in the past (keeping it updated is the hardest part) so if you need any assistance just ask
Hi Allen.
Please correct me if my tired eyes are playing me up, but I dont see the "Miss Fire" artwork on the decal sheet link, just Rozzie Geth II. Is it featured on the sheet?
I may well be asking you for advice on how to set up a website in the future, as I havent really got a clue where to start.
I think with almost 7000 views and over 250 posts the SIG is starting to outgrow a single thread.
Nige
lampie
#029
Joined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 6,249 posts
AeroScale: 3,270 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 12:32 PM UTC
Neil.
Just done some more digging and it does seem as though Fred Christensens was one of the few aircraft to display kill markings on both sides of the fusalage.
Nige
Just done some more digging and it does seem as though Fred Christensens was one of the few aircraft to display kill markings on both sides of the fusalage.
Nige
rdriscoll
Joined: November 24, 2007
KitMaker: 180 posts
AeroScale: 50 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 12:32 PM UTC
Nigel,
Good call! I did not think of that. Here is the link to the DVDs:
http://wademeyersart.tripod.com/id70.html
Military Aviation DVDs Part II
The first one listed is where I go the stills from.
One of the references that is oft overlooked are the aircraft factory films. I remember seeing a P-51D being assembled with zinc chromate wheel wells Not the NM (with front spar zinc chromate) that we expect.
Good call! I did not think of that. Here is the link to the DVDs:
http://wademeyersart.tripod.com/id70.html
Military Aviation DVDs Part II
The first one listed is where I go the stills from.
One of the references that is oft overlooked are the aircraft factory films. I remember seeing a P-51D being assembled with zinc chromate wheel wells Not the NM (with front spar zinc chromate) that we expect.
lampie
#029
Joined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 6,249 posts
AeroScale: 3,270 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 12:54 PM UTC
Rex.
Im afraid Im going have to correct you on a couple of Robert Johnson points.
The stills from the DVD captioned as "Double Lucky" actually show 42-76234 "All Hell"
The P-47 that Johnson was famously shot up in on the June 1943 mission was "Half Pint" 41-6235, not "All Hell"
Johnson flew 4 T'bolts during his tour.
41-6235 "Half Pint"
42-8461 "Lucky"
42-76234 "All Hell"
42-5512 "Penrod And Sam"
Victories scored in each were 1-21-3-2 respectively.
This is supported by a page from Robert Johnsons Log book with the serial numbers and names of each P-47 he flew handwritten by the man himself.
Contrary to popular belief, "Half Pint" was not scrapped after its epic flight on 26th June 1943, but was repaired and transferred to the 36thFG, from when it was lost in combat during August 1944.
Nige
Im afraid Im going have to correct you on a couple of Robert Johnson points.
The stills from the DVD captioned as "Double Lucky" actually show 42-76234 "All Hell"
The P-47 that Johnson was famously shot up in on the June 1943 mission was "Half Pint" 41-6235, not "All Hell"
Johnson flew 4 T'bolts during his tour.
41-6235 "Half Pint"
42-8461 "Lucky"
42-76234 "All Hell"
42-5512 "Penrod And Sam"
Victories scored in each were 1-21-3-2 respectively.
This is supported by a page from Robert Johnsons Log book with the serial numbers and names of each P-47 he flew handwritten by the man himself.
Contrary to popular belief, "Half Pint" was not scrapped after its epic flight on 26th June 1943, but was repaired and transferred to the 36thFG, from when it was lost in combat during August 1944.
Nige
rdriscoll
Joined: November 24, 2007
KitMaker: 180 posts
AeroScale: 50 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 01:07 PM UTC
Nigel,
You are correct sir. I had what we say in the states a brain cramp or brain fa*t. I know better. In computer terms it would be called a keyboard driver error.
Still a cool picture to see after the ace left town.
You are correct sir. I had what we say in the states a brain cramp or brain fa*t. I know better. In computer terms it would be called a keyboard driver error.
Still a cool picture to see after the ace left town.
rdriscoll
Joined: November 24, 2007
KitMaker: 180 posts
AeroScale: 50 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 02:46 PM UTC
Fred's LM-C July 1944.
Photo and caption from Osprey Aviation Elite No. 2. 56th Fighter Group (Freeman)
Caption refers to the starboard side kill markings.
Photo and caption from Osprey Aviation Elite No. 2. 56th Fighter Group (Freeman)
Caption refers to the starboard side kill markings.
rdriscoll
Joined: November 24, 2007
KitMaker: 180 posts
AeroScale: 50 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 02:50 PM UTC
Gabby's P-47D-25. Note the absence of invasion stripes above star and bar.
Source: "Gabby: A Fighter Pilot's Life" by Gabreski and Molesworth, 1991. Orion Books.
Source: "Gabby: A Fighter Pilot's Life" by Gabreski and Molesworth, 1991. Orion Books.
f1matt
Joined: August 13, 2006
KitMaker: 1,021 posts
AeroScale: 184 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 07:04 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Fred's LM-C July 1944.
Photo and caption from Osprey Aviation Elite No. 2. 56th Fighter Group (Freeman)
Caption refers to the starboard side kill markings.
This image shows a different style of kill marking. I'm guessing this is again a different plane and not really 42-26628?
Or have I just gone bonkers reading so much in so little time?Don't worry about it Neil. I'm just glad I can help out. I'll pop 'em in the mail either today or tomorrow. I've had a few Brits help me out recently so I'm glad I can return at least part of the favor.
And the Sky sheet does include a decal for "Miss Fire". Although the yellow back ground for racy nose art will need to be painted on prior to applying the decal.
Cheers!
-Matt
f1matt
Joined: August 13, 2006
KitMaker: 1,021 posts
AeroScale: 184 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 08:23 PM UTC
The mega P-47 sheet by Sky has markings for 12 different birds. And thanks for correcting me Nige. Miss Fire did have 21.5 kills. Oddly enough the decal sheet gives you 23.
Here is said decal sheet. I have cut it up a bit It is still 100% complete. I have all the various pieces in the original bag.
A close up on the decals for LM-C. Well most of 'em.
Here's the nose art. Including Miss Fire.
And here are all of the Bolts on the sheet. A scanner would have made this easier.
I'm tempted to build this P-47 C for the Aces High Campaign. If there's time...
Remember folks. This is part II. Which means there is a part one as well out there.
I got a lot for 13 bucks. Now I only need about a dozen more kits to actually use the decals.
-Matt
Here is said decal sheet. I have cut it up a bit It is still 100% complete. I have all the various pieces in the original bag.
A close up on the decals for LM-C. Well most of 'em.
Here's the nose art. Including Miss Fire.
And here are all of the Bolts on the sheet. A scanner would have made this easier.
I'm tempted to build this P-47 C for the Aces High Campaign. If there's time...
Remember folks. This is part II. Which means there is a part one as well out there.
I got a lot for 13 bucks. Now I only need about a dozen more kits to actually use the decals.
-Matt
FalkeEins
Joined: March 07, 2005
KitMaker: 868 posts
AeroScale: 690 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 10:48 PM UTC
..wow!! ..gonna take days to read through that lot and sort out what's what...big thanks to Rex, Nige & Matt for help with 'Miss Fire' !!!
Tomcat31
#042
Joined: November 18, 2006
KitMaker: 2,828 posts
AeroScale: 1,720 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 11:52 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Sorry didn't think, the art work for the nose is on a seperate small decal sheet with three othersHi Allen.
Please correct me if my tired eyes are playing me up, but I dont see the "Miss Fire" artwork on the decal sheet link, just Rozzie Geth II. Is it featured on the sheet?
I may well be asking you for advice on how to set up a website in the future, as I havent really got a clue where to start.
I think with almost 7000 views and over 250 posts the SIG is starting to outgrow a single thread.
Nige
Nige, you may notice the mouse and 'Miss Mischief' decals (below) that Sam has used on her Bolts.Nige, you may notice that Sam used the Mouse and 'Miss Mischief' decals on the T-Bolts she has built.
rdriscoll
Joined: November 24, 2007
KitMaker: 180 posts
AeroScale: 50 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 04:31 AM UTC
Here is Sky Models P48-039 P-47 Part 1
lampie
#029
Joined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 6,249 posts
AeroScale: 3,270 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 04:44 AM UTC
The Sky decals are certainly excellent value for money!
I have Set 1.
Its the only one Ive found that features the nose art for the 5th ERS.Hasegawa did a "rescue" P-47 but it didnt include the nose art !,,oh well.
There are some really nice subjects included but I think the image quality isnt the best IMHO, especially the nude from Jerry Johnsons "In The Mood" which is very poor.
Nige
BTW,,Ive actually managed to do some work on my latest P-47 model today!,,,YEAH!!!
I have Set 1.
Its the only one Ive found that features the nose art for the 5th ERS.Hasegawa did a "rescue" P-47 but it didnt include the nose art !,,oh well.
There are some really nice subjects included but I think the image quality isnt the best IMHO, especially the nude from Jerry Johnsons "In The Mood" which is very poor.
Nige
BTW,,Ive actually managed to do some work on my latest P-47 model today!,,,YEAH!!!
rdriscoll
Joined: November 24, 2007
KitMaker: 180 posts
AeroScale: 50 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 05:02 AM UTC
Does have any any photos of Michael Gladych P-47s while at 56th FG? I have a lot of photos but no really full length views. Mighty Eighth (Freeman) a small photo without much detail. I have not seen a good photo of Pengie series of a/c.
lampie
#029
Joined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 6,249 posts
AeroScale: 3,270 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 05:03 AM UTC
Im sure all the American readers will be aware, but perhaps not so many of international members, that the weekend was Memorial Day Weekend.
On Monday 26th a service was held at the American Cemetary near Cambridge in the UK.
This was the wreath laid by the Halesworth Museum in honour of the 56th FG.
Lest We Forget.
On Monday 26th a service was held at the American Cemetary near Cambridge in the UK.
This was the wreath laid by the Halesworth Museum in honour of the 56th FG.
Lest We Forget.
lampie
#029
Joined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 6,249 posts
AeroScale: 3,270 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 05:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Does have any any photos of Michael Gladych P-47s while at 56th FG? I have a lot of photos but no really full length views. Mighty Eighth (Freeman) a small photo without much detail. I have not seen a good photo of Pengie series of a/c.
Ive got some Im sure, but as far as Im aware there are no photos of his "black" P-47M.
I really hope someone will prove me wrong and post one because Id love to see it!
Which particular "Pengie" are you looking for images of Rex?
Nige
rdriscoll
Joined: November 24, 2007
KitMaker: 180 posts
AeroScale: 50 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 05:37 AM UTC
I would like to see any photos. I actually found a photo of the P-47M:
Note that the Squadron code H is segmented stencil as opposed to the solid letter that is
on Aeromaster Decals 48-649. This reference is Aces and Wingmen II Volume 2.
Note that the Squadron code H is segmented stencil as opposed to the solid letter that is
on Aeromaster Decals 48-649. This reference is Aces and Wingmen II Volume 2.
lampie
#029
Joined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 6,249 posts
AeroScale: 3,270 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 06:18 AM UTC
Heres what I have to hand,
In reverse order,,
44-19718 Pengie IV
The next photo pertains to be Pengie III but the serial number in the caption doesnt match up so Im not so sure. Apart from the droptank on the wing pylon theres not much detail to be gleaned from the photo due to circumstances.
Definately saving the best until last.
Here is 42-75224 Pengie II
Of special interest in this photo are the oversized underwing markings and the "Malcolm Hood" canopy.
Nige
In reverse order,,
44-19718 Pengie IV
The next photo pertains to be Pengie III but the serial number in the caption doesnt match up so Im not so sure. Apart from the droptank on the wing pylon theres not much detail to be gleaned from the photo due to circumstances.
Definately saving the best until last.
Here is 42-75224 Pengie II
Of special interest in this photo are the oversized underwing markings and the "Malcolm Hood" canopy.
Nige
rdriscoll
Joined: November 24, 2007
KitMaker: 180 posts
AeroScale: 50 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 09:17 AM UTC
Nige,
Thanks for the pictures. I recognize the first 2. Pic 1 is in Mighty Eighth. I have a photo of Gladych's P-47 after it crashed (ran out of fuel). It is just unrecognizable debris.
I wonder what the decal manufacturers used for their reference.
Thanks for the pictures. I recognize the first 2. Pic 1 is in Mighty Eighth. I have a photo of Gladych's P-47 after it crashed (ran out of fuel). It is just unrecognizable debris.
I wonder what the decal manufacturers used for their reference.
lampie
#029
Joined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 6,249 posts
AeroScale: 3,270 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 10:16 AM UTC
Pengie II certainly made a big hole in the ground didnt it?
I wonder about the decal manufacturers research sometimes myself.
I recently built a P-47C in Bunny Comstocks markings for the Halesworth Museum.
I researched it thoroughly before and during the build, and found out a couple of days ago that the artwork actually had a blue and not red background!
Nige
I wonder about the decal manufacturers research sometimes myself.
I recently built a P-47C in Bunny Comstocks markings for the Halesworth Museum.
I researched it thoroughly before and during the build, and found out a couple of days ago that the artwork actually had a blue and not red background!
Nige
lampie
#029
Joined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 6,249 posts
AeroScale: 3,270 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 03:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Nigel,
If you could get us the exact upper side colors for the 61st and 63rd FS P-47Ms I could die a happy man.
The best way I could think of finding out about this was to ask somebody who was there.
This is an extract from an email I recieved from Russ Kyler of the 61st FS 56FG.Pilot of P-47M HV-J, "Lorene"
The capitals are Russ's, not mine.
The ORIGINAL 61st FS P-47Ms were painted "FLAT BLACK". In some photos (due to light refraction)
they have a kind of "purplish" look to them. Roger Freeman lists them as being "Flat Black" as does the book
titled "BEWARE THE THUNDERBOLT" by David R. McLaren. (Both are correct).
That'll do for me!!
Nige
rdriscoll
Joined: November 24, 2007
KitMaker: 180 posts
AeroScale: 50 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 01:16 PM UTC
Nigel,
Did you find out what color Lorene's outfit is"? One of the decal sets I own shows blue, the other is brown.
-Rex
Did you find out what color Lorene's outfit is"? One of the decal sets I own shows blue, the other is brown.
-Rex
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