I had been wanting to start this particular topic for several years now, but I waited because I new someone was working on a diorama of just this subject. First lets begin with life.

The subject of dioramas has always been a modelers ultimate expression of a build. Kitmaker / Aeroscale member John Reid has shared his mammouth works with us. It takes real dedication to absorb all that he has generously given to us. With dioramas in mind lets see what they can be based on. Here is a real life image of a Sopwith Camel nosed over waiting to be salvaged by her unit.


Next here is the example done from the point of view of that great artist Mr. James Dietz. He called this one "Waiting for the Tender."


By the way I have spoken with Mr. Dietz several years back and have his permission to post these low res images.

Mr. Dietz did an article some years back on his vison for his paintings. We will get to this shortly. He wanted to use the format of a nosed over Camel again in his next attempt of the subject matter and came up with "Here is mud in your eye."

Back on 16 March 2006 I became aware of Modeler Matt Wellhouser's efforts concerning the Hobby Craft 1/32 scale Sopwith Camel. He titled it "On a wing and a prayer." Now two years later it has made its way in to a popular model Magazine (MMI) for their March 2008 issue.

Now we have touched briefly on these topics before Click Here.

It should be noted that it appears some people can't take or accept the thinking that a hobby can become an art. While I do not consider myself an artist there are people that like what I do. I have sold some of my pieces and I do some writing on the subject that gets a bit of notoriety. If we are to believe what a real artist has to say then lets see what well known aviation artist Jim Dietz says, ‘... the process of creating a realistic painting is like describing how a magic trick is done. Once the process is understood the viewer is apt to say,”Oh is that all there is to it?”... “They are to fulfill my own desires.”

Sounds like most modelers to me. While you and I may not see eye to eye in this I would like to encourage free discussion on ths topic. I would however like to encourage that we give each othe basic courtesies.

I started this thread to get a feel for some surface impressions. To begin with - what about model making, building and displaying can be called an art? What about it can't be considered art? Before you go too far let me tell you that I've seen a wooden ship that is worth about $250,000.00 USD sitting in the attic of the Govenor's mansion here in Colorado. To be more specific its old and ragged and to refinish it would only lessen its value.. Yet, I have seen one unbuilt model - mint in the box going for $1,000.00 USD.

As a former and sometimes artist, I can assure you cash value has nothing to do with the actual artistic value of something.

That said, I certainly believe model making can be art. It is certainly craft. An artist generally has to be good at his craft, but not always....

I think that what I have seen on this site is art, the armour boys are great at representing a scene. There is a statue of a guy on a horse in my local city square that most people call art, apart from the size, the nosed over Camel is more artistic. I suspect that I will only ever be a kit basher and don't have that extra touch that lifts a model into the category of "art"

Here is a bit of fun.

So is model building an art form in the strictest sense?

I would suggest that a figure modeller who sculpts a figure from scratch is an artist, someone who scratchbuilds a vehicle/aircraft/ship is an artist.

My one reservation about calling the whole of model building an art form in its strictest sense is that most of us start with a pre formed kit. I have seen some fantastic models built over the years, both on this site and at others, the skills required sometimes leave me speechless, but for me true "art" is producing something entirely by one's own skills.

Stephen, I sense you are fishing for some responses and lively discussion here

Ok, I will bite - Ultimately I agree with Martin - I would say that model kit building, or building anything in mass produced kit form (not just model kits), is not strictly speaking, art.

The kit builder, which is where I squarely place myself, is more of an interpretist. We share the techniques of some fields of artistry, such as painting, but we are naturally constrained to certain guidelines - the kits have instructions, they go together in a certain sequence. Is the person on a car production line an artist because he paints the cars different colours according to a set paint scheme? Unless we start entering the world of scratchbuilding, the only room for creativity is in painting, with which we naturally try to mimic reality. The assembled plastic may represent the "blank canvas" to which we modellers may attempt to use to parallel ourselves with artists, but as a whole, an assembled and painted OOB model kit can never to my mind be considered as art. Not to say I am not impressed by the craftsmanship of many modellers, but that must be considered seperately from "artistry".

The scratchbuilder, on the other hand, is an artist, as he or she makes something from nothing - there is a creativitiy and ingenuity required to turn everyday objects or raw materials, or even a real blank canvas, into an interpretation of a real or surreal object. These items are born purely from creativity.

The dioramas in question tend to blur the lines. But ultimately, unless everything is scratchbuilt, we are using a kit to assist in portraying a reality or a story. The idea itself may be original, but the tools used to tell the story are not. In its simplest form, the story could be roughly told using toys from the supermarket. It is the crafstmanship and the creativity of the idea itself (which is really the artistic part) that truly impresses us.

Ok, those are my thoughts. Stepping off the soapbox now.

Very nice dio by the way

BC

The reasons I like being here is that we are wanting to be better modelers and we don't take ourselves too seriously.

Taking nothing and build it into something. The blank page being turned into the mechanical drawing used to build an aircraft. The painting turned from a blank canvas to a work of beauty. Michaelangelo simply chistled the unwanted bits away from the stone to reveal the beautiful artwork that was already there. We agree that is art.

Admittingly we take pre-made kits that were molded from original masters. As mention scratchbuilders take flat sheets to make completed models or PE . There are those who do wonderous painting on a kit to render it realistic. Clearly there seems to be a strain of creativity in the model builder. The long and short of it is art is what ever you think is art.

". . .Art refers to a diverse range of human activities and artifacts, and may be used to cover all or any of the arts, including music, literature and other forms. It is most often used to refer specifically to the visual arts, including media such as painting, sculpture, and printmaking. However it can also be applied to forms of art that stimulate the other senses, such as music, an auditory art. Aesthetics is the branch of philosophy which considers art.

Traditionally the term art was used to refer to any skill or mastery, a concept which altered during the Romantic period, when art came to be seen as "a special faculty of the human mind to be classified with religion and science". Generally art is a (product of) human activity, made with the intention of stimulating the human senses as well as the human mind; by transmitting emotions and/or ideas. Beyond this description, there is no general agreed-upon definition of art. Art is also able to illustrate abstract thought and its expressions can elicit previously hidden emotions in its audience.

The evaluation of art has become especially problematic since the 20th century. Richard Wollheim distinguishes three approaches: the Realist, whereby aesthetic quality is an absolute value independent of any human view; the Objectivist, whereby it is also an absolute value, but is dependent on general human experience; and the Relativist position, whereby it is not an absolute value, but depends on, and varies with, the human experience of different humans. An object may be characterized by the intentions, or lack thereof, of its creator, regardless of its apparent purpose. A cup, which ostensibly can be used as a container, may be considered art if intended solely as an ornament, while a painting may be deemed craft if mass-produced.

Visual art is defined as the arrangement of colors, forms, or other elements "in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium". The nature of art has been described by Wollheim as "one of the most elusive of the traditional problems of human culture". It has been defined as a vehicle for the expression or communication of emotions and ideas, a means for exploring and appreciating formal elements for their own sake, and as mimesis or representation. Leo Tolstoy identified art as a use of indirect means to communicate from one person to another.[5] Benedetto Croce and R.G. Collingwood advanced the idealist view that art expresses emotions, and that the work of art therefore essentially exists in the mind of the creator. Art as form has its roots in the philosophy of Immanuel Kant, and was developed in the early twentieth century by Roger Fry and Clive Bell. Art as mimesis or representation has deep roots in the philosophy of Aristotle. . ."

While nothing I make can compare with the Mona Lisa, Leonardo da Vinci was among other things a model builder.
Machines of flight

This is after all - Early Aviation.

I dunno Brad, I reckon you yourself blur the lines. The scratch building that you do as a matter of course on your builds certainly tends towards art for me.

Having said that, until I successfuly scratch build a subject my self, I will consider my self to be purely a kit assembler.

I think that we all are on a journey from "kit builder" to "Modeler". Some of us are further along that road than others.

Cheers,

Hugh

I think that whether or not a finished build is a piece of art usually starts with what the vision the builder has. Does the builder just want to make a representative of a type of aircraft, or does the builder want to use the kit to be part of a work to make a statement about some aspect of the human condition? I have been priveleged to see exquisite craftsmanship and also great works of art at some of the shows I have been to. When a build reaches towards the art side, there seems to be some undefinable but readily apparent quality that tells the senses that this is no longer a mere model but a work of art. The work is infused with part of the soul of the creator. Now, I do not understand all of this, but it is as close as I can come to stating how the truth of art in model building has affected me. I am afraid I will only be a kit builder, even though great work inspires me to improve my skills, an artist is truly beyond us mere mortals.
capnjock

Capnjock,
I agree with you whole heartedly.
Let me give you all an example of how I see "Art".

About... 15 years ago now, I went to the National Gallery in Canberra. There was a piece in the conceptual art section that comprised a glass of water on a shelf, a plaque entitled "Tree" and a printed transcript of an interveiw with the glass of water that discussed how and when the glass of water had become a tree.

Now, of the group of people that I was with at that time, I was the only one that apreciated the "Art" in this piece.

Art to me, is any man made article, in any media, that conveys any idea that can be interpreted in a subjective way. I make the definite distinction between subjective and objective interpretation.

To me then, any variation from the plastic components that involves creative expression on the part of the modeller, can be considered art.

Now, the question of whether any particular piece is Good art, is another one entirely.

Cheers,

Hugh

I think that all of the views expressed here are heart felt and very well thought out. The research on the topic is excellent as well.

I believe that art truly is in the eye of the beholder. What we do and show here is primarily craftsmanship and the skills displayed and the level of work created should qualify some as master craftsman, and some I would call artisans. The point at which these works become art, I believe, would be a further refinement of the works themselves and how they are portrayed and used. As mentioned previously so very well by Merlin, expression, subjectivity and objectivity all come into play for these pieces to enter the realm of artwork. But possible it is!

I think the display of the work and the story or feeling achieved by that display can bring the work into the realm of art. They no longer are just mass produced representations of our favorite flying machines, the impact of viewing their incorporation into a display brings further meaning. The basic principles of art work and the success of it, is the ability of the artist to use form, color and composition. The diorama or vignette is an example of this and Merlin even hinted at the abstraction aspect in which the rearrangement of the elements of the kit could be used as an artistic expression as well. This being so because the original purpose of the kit would no longer exist, to make a replica of an object. The reason for the execution of the work would take it beyond its original purpose.

One could argue though, that the ability of using paint and other materials creates an illusion that was not there previously, a transformation of plastic into what looks like an actual aircraft. That scratch building is art because it does not use a pre-made form. However, that form existed none the less in plans and in actuality and that you were still copying someone else's design and to not take it further but to leave it in it's unchanged form would not qualify it as art.

When you look at the great cathedrals of Europe and the many palaces and shrines the world over they are covered with works of art that were executed not by the artists themselves but by artisans hired to execute them. The sheer volume of work needed but which could never be completed by the one or two people who designed them required the services of these craftsman. We should all consider ourselves members of this guild and hold our heads high for it.
Dwayne

For those who appreciate the work that goes into a detailed build you had to have tried to build a kit. Everyone else just thinks we should have something better to do with our time. You have probably felt the icy remarks from friends or family members. ". . .Thats cute. . ."

Don't be put off by these outsider comments. While Da Vinci had a vision of the future, we try to keep in focus a bit of the past. Every model builder seeks to capture if only in miniature the history we find so interesting. It sparks us to seek out and even participate in local volunteer operations that build and protect the history we value.

Let me encourage all of you to find a good reputable non-profit organization and show them your support and involvement. Whether is with a museum, or historical society. Your help may be just what they need. You may also find that they value your workmanship. And your builds could be on display for other interested modelers to view.

The enthusiasm you put into your builds can inspire others that have the same interests.


Remember this thread?

This discussion is as old as time. Gotta love it.
Where do we draw the line to define the artist who 'starts with nothing?' What is 'nothing'?
Scratchbuilders will purchase manufactured sheet and shaped styrene. They will buy aftermarket products. They will put to use items found around the house.
Painters will purchase preframed canvases and manufactured paints.

Is someone who does needlepoint and creates intricately decorated clothing from nothing more than spools of yarn an artist? Or a craftsman/hobbyist?

If we model builders purchase a pre-formed kit we are simply skipping a step in the process. I've had woodworkers ask me why I don't build from scratch--making the subject 'truly my own.' And there is where the difference may lie. A true artist will make something unique, not just a few degrees separated from the next 'artist'. At the same time these woodworkers will create items from blocks of wood, but while using someone else's drawings and plans. Is handmade furniture art?

So where do we draw the line? Does starting with nothing mean making our own plastic? Creating our own paints with pigment from assorted berry juice, powders and metals?

A similar argument has been made about what makes up a sport? Football, basketball, hockey, may be considered true sports in a traditional sense. But what about golf, bowling, billiards and darts? Each takes physical skills and coordination to do well, yet the 'players' need hardly be in what is considered a healthy shape to perform them. So should they be considered 'pastimes' or hobbies?

In a nutshell my humble opinion is that to carve a figure from a block of granite or wood is truly starting from scratch and is therefore an art, everything else is just a hobby.

Is modeling an art form? Yes, it can be, but not strictly. Whatever makes the builder enjoy the work is the main focus. Why else do it? If you like the results that is really all that matters. I may never put psychedelic lozenge on Fokker Dr. I but hey if you want to - ok! Yet the stuff that gets the awards especially in the diorama classes in contests is scale realism.

This means there is some kind of "Wow!" factor. The eye candy that grabs the viewer and says momentarily, "believe in me for just a second."

Hi Keith,
I see your point, up to an extent...

If I pick up my trumpet and play Hummel's Trumpet Concerto, I am starting with something already made by someone nearly 200 years ago.
Am I the artist, or is Hummel?

If I go to see Phillip Glass's Opera, "Akhnaten" in live performance, Is the Opera company the artist, the Director, the Musical Director, or does that honour rest with Phil.

If I play the Hummel, have I created art? If I see the Glass in performance, have I witnessed art?

In the case of the Hummel, I think that I am the artist and the Orchestra and conductor that accompany me are artists. Joseph Nepomuk Hummel, while unarguably an artist in his time (he was a famous concert pianist himself), wrote the concerto on commision, for pay.

My performance may not be very good, in which case, the "art" may not be good art, but it is still art. And really, all I have done is interpret.

In the case of the Glass, definitely yes. All those who had a creative part in the performance that I witnessed, were artists. And the performance was art.

Cheers,

Hugh