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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Who am I ? #14
JackFlash
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Posted: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 03:45 PM UTC
OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 07:36 PM UTC
Leutnant Karl Allmenröder?
Heatnzl
#435
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Posted: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - 08:24 PM UTC
Something suggests he Austro-Hungarian.

Frank Linke-Crawford?
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 03:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Leutnant Karl Allmenröder?




Quoted Text

Something suggests he Austro-Hungarian.

Frank Linke-Crawford?



No and no. He is wearing a German uniform.
OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 08:00 PM UTC
Is it perhaps Josef Jacobs?

Mikael
lcarroll
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Posted: Thursday, September 05, 2013 - 01:26 AM UTC
Lt. Fritz Putter, CO Jasta 68?

Cheers,
Lance
JackFlash
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Posted: Thursday, September 05, 2013 - 02:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Is it perhaps Josef Jacobs? Mikael



No sir.


Quoted Text

Lt. Fritz Putter, CO Jasta 68?
Cheers,
Lance



Sorry no.
lcarroll
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Posted: Thursday, September 05, 2013 - 06:23 AM UTC
Well...................., my distant second choice was Jasta 28's Lt. Ernst Hess. Otherwise this one has me baffled!
Cheers,
Lance
JackFlash
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Posted: Thursday, September 05, 2013 - 08:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well...................., my distant second choice was Jasta 28's Lt. Ernst Hess. Otherwise this one has me baffled!
Cheers,
Lance



It is not E. Hess. But they were both in the same unit just not at the same time. (Not Jasta 28w.)
OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 06:45 AM UTC
Ernst Freiherr von Althaus – both him and Hess where with Jasta 10 during their careers?

Mikael
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 08:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ernst Freiherr von Althaus – both him and Hess where with Jasta 10 during their careers?
Mikael



Right unit wrong man. Not v. Althaus.
OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 08:51 PM UTC
Oblt. Erich Löwenhardt – Germanys third ranking ace?

Mikael
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 02:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Oblt. Erich Löwenhardt – Germanys third ranking ace?

Mikael



Sorry Mikael not Löwenhardt.
lcarroll
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Posted: Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 01:58 AM UTC
O.K. Maybe one more try.......a young Max Nather, 26 Victories with Jasta 62? (and never received his nominated Blue Max)
Cheers,
Lance
DrIAce
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Posted: Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 03:55 AM UTC
If not Naether (did not serve in J.28) then Ltn. August Hanko ?


Ed
JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 04:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

O.K. Maybe one more try.......a young Max Naether, 26 Victories with Jasta 62? (and never received his nominated Blue Max)Cheers, Lance



No sir.


Quoted Text

If not Naether (did not serve in J.28) then Ltn. August Hanko ? Ed



Sorry Ed, not Hanko either.
DrIAce
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Posted: Monday, September 09, 2013 - 12:01 PM UTC
Ok, Jasta 10, Obl. Hans Klein

Ed
JackFlash
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Posted: Monday, September 09, 2013 - 12:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Ok, Jasta 10, Obl. Hans Klein. Ed



Sorry Ed, it is not Klein.
JackFlash
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Posted: Monday, September 09, 2013 - 12:51 PM UTC
Lets add some information. He came from Jasta 14 on 21 Sept. 1917 but was KIA 2 Oct. 1917.
lcarroll
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Posted: Monday, September 09, 2013 - 02:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Lets add some information. He came from Jasta 14 on 21 Sept. 1917 but was KIA 2 Oct. 1917.



Ltn. Max Roemer! Jasta 10 killed in action 02 October 1917 over Westroosebeke.
Cheers,
Lance
JackFlash
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Posted: Monday, September 09, 2013 - 02:41 PM UTC
Yes, it is Max Römer.
CaptnTommy
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Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 01:55 AM UTC
Only the Good die young....

Captn Tommy
lcarroll
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Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 02:21 AM UTC
Very young in this case. I'd like to know more about him; couldn't find much info on him however he did serve in the Army at the Front at the age of 15 according to one reference!
Do you have a history on him, Stephen?
Cheers,
Lance
JackFlash
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Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 06:19 AM UTC
I think there is a bit about him in the Lieutenant der Reserve Werner Voss and the Pilots of Jasta 10 book. Chapter 12. Lance, you have that book don't you?

Here is what I found.

"Ltn. Max Römer (Roemer) (Römer) – Pfalz D.III –
• Born: 29 Feb 1896 near Mönchsberg (Wttbg) - ‘frontflieger.de’; ‘denkmalprojekt.org’. Officer in Infantrie Rgt. 125.
• Units assigned: FAA208, Jasta 10, 14 - ‘The Illustrated Red Baron’ by Kilduff pg 145; ‘The Jasta Pilots’ by Norman Franks, Frank Bailey and Rick Duiven – pg 242.
• Initially assigned to Jasta 14 - ‘The Illustrated Red Baron: The life and times of Manfred Von Richthofen’ by Peter Kilduff – pg 146.
• On 21 Sept 1917, Lt Römer was posted with Kogenluft 61189 Fl.I., then to JG I, and then to Jasta 10 - ‘Jagd in Flanders Himmel’ by Karl Bodenschatz; ‘aerodrome.com’ – Kilian.
• Joined Jasta 10 on: 21 Sep 1917 - The Illustrated Red Baron’ by Peter Kilduff pg 145; ‘The Jasta Pilots’ by Norman Franks, Frank Bailey and Rick Duiven – pg 242; ‘aerodrome.com’ – Rick Duiven and Lloyd Leichentritt; ‘The Illustrated Red Baron: The life and times of Manfred Von Richthofen’ by Peter Kilduff – pg 146.
• He is credited with 0 Victories.
• His personel aircraft had a ‘wash’ applied over the national markings, probably yellow a Jasta 10 color. The lightning bolt was Römer’s individual insignia - ‘The Red Baron Combat Wing: Jagdgeschwader Richthofen in Battle’ by Peter Kilduff.
• Max Römer and Ltn d.R. Rüdenberg were friends - ‘Over the Front Vol.16-2001-Sunner Issue No.2’ by Dov Gavish, PhD and Dieter H.M. Groschel, M.D – pg 123.
• He was with JG I just four weeks before he was killed in Action.
• He was Killed in Action on 02 Oct 1917 over Westroosebeke @ 10:30 according to ‘JASTA WAR CHRONOLOGY’; ‘Casualties of the German Air Service 1914-1920’ by Norman Franks – pg 231; ‘The Jasta War Chronology’ by Norman Franks – pg 105; ‘Air Aces of the 1914 – 1918 War’ by D.A. Russell – Pg 194 -197; ‘The Jasta Pilots’ by Norman Franks, Frank Bailey and Rick Duiven – pg 242; ‘aerodrome.com’ – Rick Duiven and Lloyd Leichentritt; ‘The Illustrated Red Baron: The life and times of Manfred Von Richthofen’ by Peter Kilduff – pg 146.
-- Note: Also in Osprey’s ‘Richthofen’s Circus; Jagdgeschwader Nr I’ claims he went down on 03 Oct 1917, a victim of 55 Sq DH4.
• He was shot down in flames and Killed in Action on 02 Oct 1917 near Kortrijk (Westroosebeke), Belgium as confirmed by Lt. Rudenberg and Lt. Rudenberg further noted that Ltn Römer had been attacked by another German pilot, from another Jasta, who was unfamiliar with the lines of the new Pfalz D.III the Jasta 10 pilot was flying - ‘Richthofen’s Circus; Jagdgeschwader Nr I’ by Greg VanWyngarden – pg 57; ‘Pfalz Scout Aces of World War 1’ by Greg VanWyngarden – pg 23; ‘Frontflieger.de’; ‘The Illustrated Red Baron’ by Peter Kilduff pg 145; ‘The Jasta Pilots’ by Norman Franks, Frank Bailey and Rick Duiven – pg 242, 348; ‘denkmalprojekt.org’. . ."

Though it seems unlikey that Jasta 7 (the unit Jasta 10 met)was unfamiliar with the lines of the Pfalz D.III.

". . . On 02 Oct 1917, Capt. Maybery attacked an enemy scout at 12,000 feet over Moorslede. He fired both guns and zoomed away at the last moment. Bowman saw the enemy scout go down to crash half a mile west of St. Pieter. This Albatros was flown by Ltn. Max Roemer of Jasta 10, and was killed in the subsequent crash - ‘High in the Empty Blue: The History of 56 Squadron, RFC/RAF 1916-1920’ by Alex Revell – pg 177.
• Lt. Max Römer, a former infantry Officer, at the tender age of 21 and had been with the Staffel for only eleven days, was shot down in flams over Westroosebeke by a D.H 4 on 02 Oct 1917. The victors were 2/AM S. Leyland and Lt. M. Jones of No. 55 Squadron - ‘The Red Baron Combat Wing: Jagdgeschwader Richthofen in Battle’ by Peter Kilduff – pg 147; RFC Communique’ No. 108, 11 Oct 1917, p.2.
• His grave is questionably at Kortrijk, Belgium - ‘frontfleiger.de’."
JackFlash
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Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 06:40 AM UTC
Russell Gannon wrote,


Quoted Text

My copy of Kofl 4 simply gives 'Nach luftkampf bei Westroosebeke brennand abgestartz' with a later editor prviding time of 1030.

The time clearly comes from JIHF which in relation to 2 Oct 17 states: 'Ltn Roemer (Jasta 10) 930 vorm geftarter zu einen Jadgflug und von biesen nicht zurudgerfehrt - nachtrag 1030 vorm Westroosebeke, dieseits, brennend abgesturtz.'

Now to say my German is pedestrian would be an understatement but I take this implies that Roemer was last seen during a fight with own fighters c0930 and that his plane crashed in flames near Westroosebeke at 1030?????

Now I also know from the Jacobs diary that at about 0945 Jatas 7 took off and the kette led by redoubtable Paul Billik was attacked vicinity of Ypres by 7 Pfalz; who fired at long range and then flew off east without doing any damage.

Whilst given times a little out, my feeling is the 7 Pfalz have to be Js 10; which in turn suggests the home goal suggestion is a little weak. Pointedly Js 10's staffelfuhrer Hans Klien shot down a 55 Sqn DH4 (A7642) over Staden at 1040 - close in both time & loc to that given as Roemer's demise, which in turn suggests to me that Roemer was more likely victim of the 55 Sqn crew of Jones & Leyland - claim right on the knocker.

Also going back to Kofl 4 - in the guaranteed home goal of Js 11's Lautenshlager on 29 Oct 17 - it is written up that way, which is not the case in regards Roemer.

So as I read it, Js 10 seven strong mistakenly attacked a kette of Js 7 c0930-45 and then went on, possibly somewhat split up, to tackle 55 Sqn DH4's on bombing raid to Marcke.

Just for interest - as for Maybery claim, in my log I have Rudenberg pencilled lightly in. He of course was also shot down this date - unscathed but aircraft written off. Unfortunately have not seen the Rudenberg article as I did not renew my subs with OTF after 2000. How does he tell his own downing on this date??????



Though it seems unlikey that Jasta 7 (the unit Jasta 10 met)was unfamiliar with the lines of the Pfalz D.III.
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