Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
1:16 Model Airways Fokker Dr.I blog.
dolly15
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Posted: Sunday, December 29, 2013 - 10:45 AM UTC
Removed by original poster on 12/29/13 - 22:46:55 (GMT).
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Sunday, December 29, 2013 - 10:48 AM UTC
dolly15
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Posted: Sunday, December 29, 2013 - 10:55 AM UTC
dolly15
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Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 - 08:52 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 12:07 AM UTC
This diorama will depict the Fokker as an accident victim due to upper wing failure.I have notice on most Fokker aircraft of steel tube fuselage construction usually survives even the most severe accidents,especially aft of the cockpit.A model of the picture above could be adapted to allow parts of the upper wing to survive ,which would fit in nicely with the storyline of an accident inquiry investigation at the Fokker test facility .
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 12:13 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 - 12:26 AM UTC
I have decided I would like to experiment a bit with leaving some of the fabric on around the fuselage steel box construction aft of the cockpit area.I will therefore deviate a lot from the Model Airways method of construction right from the start.There will be no internal wiring of the fuselage as it would never be seen under the fabric.I will modify the fuselage to accept the fabric so that I can glue it to wood rather than metal.I am planning to use a pre-glued iron on fabric that will cover a very thin plywood base.
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 02:14 AM UTC
Wing failures
". . .Heinrich Gontermann's crashed Dr.I (serial 115/17)
On 29 October 1917, Leutnant der Reserve Heinrich Gontermann, Staffelführer of Jasta 15, was performing aerobatics when his triplane broke up. Gontermann was fatally injured in the ensuing crash landing. Leutnant der Reserve Günther Pastor of Jasta 11 was killed two days later when his triplane broke up in level flight.[20] Inspection of the wrecked aircraft showed that the wings had been poorly constructed. Examination of other high-time triplanes confirmed these findings. On 2 November, Idflieg grounded all remaining triplanes pending an inquiry. Idflieg convened a Sturzkommission (crash commission) which concluded that poor construction and lack of waterproofing had allowed moisture to damage the wing structure.[21] This caused the wing ribs to disintegrate and the ailerons to break away in flight.
In response to the crash investigation, Fokker improved quality control on the production line, particularly varnishing of the wing spars and ribs, to combat moisture. Fokker also strengthened the rib structures and the attachment of the auxiliary spars to the ribs. Existing triplanes were repaired and modified at Fokker's expense. After testing a modified wing at Adlershof, Idflieg authorized the triplane's return to service on 28 November 1917. Production resumed in early December. By January 1918, Jastas 6 and 11 were fully equipped with the triplane. Only 14 squadrons used the Dr.I as their primary equipment. Most of these units were part of Jagdgeschwadern I, II, or III. Frontline inventory peaked in late April 1918, with 171 aircraft in service on the Western Front.[11]
Despite corrective measures, the Dr.I continued to suffer from wing failures. On 3 February 1918, Leutnant Hans Joachim Wolff of Jasta 11 successfully landed after suffering a failure of the upper wing leading edge and ribs. On 18 March 1918, Lothar von Richthofen, Staffelführer of Jasta 11, suffered a failure of the upper wing leading edge during combat with Sopwith Camels of No. 73 Squadron and Bristol F.2Bs of No. 62 Squadron. Richthofen was seriously injured in the ensuing crash landing.
Postwar research revealed that poor workmanship was not the only cause of the triplane's structural failures. In 1929, National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) investigations found that the upper wing carried a higher lift coefficient than the lower wing — at high speeds it could be 2.55 times as much.
The triplane's chronic structural problems destroyed any prospect of large-scale orders. Production eventually ended in May 1918, by which time only 320 had been manufactured. The Dr.I was withdrawn from frontline service as the Fokker D.VII entered widespread service in June and July. Jasta 19 was the last squadron to be fully equipped with the Dr.I.
Surviving triplanes were distributed to training and home defense units. Several training aircraft were engined with the 75 kW (100 hp) Goebel Goe.II. At the time of the Armistice, many remaining triplanes were assigned to fighter training schools at Nivelles, Belgium, and Valenciennes, France. Allied pilots tested several of these triplanes and found their handling qualities to be impressive."
". . .Heinrich Gontermann's crashed Dr.I (serial 115/17)
On 29 October 1917, Leutnant der Reserve Heinrich Gontermann, Staffelführer of Jasta 15, was performing aerobatics when his triplane broke up. Gontermann was fatally injured in the ensuing crash landing. Leutnant der Reserve Günther Pastor of Jasta 11 was killed two days later when his triplane broke up in level flight.[20] Inspection of the wrecked aircraft showed that the wings had been poorly constructed. Examination of other high-time triplanes confirmed these findings. On 2 November, Idflieg grounded all remaining triplanes pending an inquiry. Idflieg convened a Sturzkommission (crash commission) which concluded that poor construction and lack of waterproofing had allowed moisture to damage the wing structure.[21] This caused the wing ribs to disintegrate and the ailerons to break away in flight.
In response to the crash investigation, Fokker improved quality control on the production line, particularly varnishing of the wing spars and ribs, to combat moisture. Fokker also strengthened the rib structures and the attachment of the auxiliary spars to the ribs. Existing triplanes were repaired and modified at Fokker's expense. After testing a modified wing at Adlershof, Idflieg authorized the triplane's return to service on 28 November 1917. Production resumed in early December. By January 1918, Jastas 6 and 11 were fully equipped with the triplane. Only 14 squadrons used the Dr.I as their primary equipment. Most of these units were part of Jagdgeschwadern I, II, or III. Frontline inventory peaked in late April 1918, with 171 aircraft in service on the Western Front.[11]
Despite corrective measures, the Dr.I continued to suffer from wing failures. On 3 February 1918, Leutnant Hans Joachim Wolff of Jasta 11 successfully landed after suffering a failure of the upper wing leading edge and ribs. On 18 March 1918, Lothar von Richthofen, Staffelführer of Jasta 11, suffered a failure of the upper wing leading edge during combat with Sopwith Camels of No. 73 Squadron and Bristol F.2Bs of No. 62 Squadron. Richthofen was seriously injured in the ensuing crash landing.
Postwar research revealed that poor workmanship was not the only cause of the triplane's structural failures. In 1929, National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) investigations found that the upper wing carried a higher lift coefficient than the lower wing — at high speeds it could be 2.55 times as much.
The triplane's chronic structural problems destroyed any prospect of large-scale orders. Production eventually ended in May 1918, by which time only 320 had been manufactured. The Dr.I was withdrawn from frontline service as the Fokker D.VII entered widespread service in June and July. Jasta 19 was the last squadron to be fully equipped with the Dr.I.
Surviving triplanes were distributed to training and home defense units. Several training aircraft were engined with the 75 kW (100 hp) Goebel Goe.II. At the time of the Armistice, many remaining triplanes were assigned to fighter training schools at Nivelles, Belgium, and Valenciennes, France. Allied pilots tested several of these triplanes and found their handling qualities to be impressive."
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
Joined: May 20, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 02:23 AM UTC
The storyline is starting to come together.It will center around a crashed Fokker Dr.1 being hauled to the Fokker test facility on a flatbed ,to try to resolve the upper wing/aileron failures experience in the field.As usual I will be widely deviating from the kit example and it's instruction booklet.Anyone interested in building this kit "out of the box"the instructions are in the box and there is no sense in my repeating it here.
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 02:42 AM UTC
My diorama will not be about the crash depicted in the pic above.I don't like to recreate pics in 3D as it is too artistically confining.I like to have the maximum of artistic license when doing dioramas.My stories are based not upon fact but are intentionally fictional , however, they do represent events that "could have happened "during the era.
A good example is the wind tunnel that will be part of this diorama.I have researched Fokker's use of wind tunnels and I can't prove either way ,that he did or did not use one, however my guess would be that he did at some point when he was developing his ideas on wing structure design.
Wind tunnels were important to aviation starting with the Wright brothers bicycle experiments and I want to include it for educational purposes.
A good example is the wind tunnel that will be part of this diorama.I have researched Fokker's use of wind tunnels and I can't prove either way ,that he did or did not use one, however my guess would be that he did at some point when he was developing his ideas on wing structure design.
Wind tunnels were important to aviation starting with the Wright brothers bicycle experiments and I want to include it for educational purposes.
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 05:32 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 08:12 AM UTC
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 10:35 AM UTC
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 11:26 PM UTC
On October, 31 1917 the all the Fokker Dr.I's were grounded and the Kturz Kommission (crash commission) began on November, 2 1917. The findings were made on November, 4 1917 in which they concluded that the aerodynamics of the counterbalance ailerons were too big and poor workmanship led to the accidents. As a result a number of aeroplanes suggested by Richthofen due to their flight time had their fabric removed from the wings. Moisture damage was found, causing the glue to separate and or weaken its joints. Machine, Fok. Dr.I 141/17 was then subjected to new load testing on November, 5 1917. Then on November, 6 the Kturz Kommission stated in a memorandum had made 12 points of modifications needed before the existing machines could be cleared for combat operations. However Jasta 14 was the only group that continues to fly the Dr.I's. By November, 28 1917 the re-certification was given for all the existing machines.
Fokker Dr.1.com.
Fokker Dr.1.com.
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 11:29 PM UTC
Thank you Stephen ! now I have an exact date and the aircraft tested.I will now try to research whether it was a crash victim or not.
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 12:28 AM UTC
I have decided to paint the crashed aircraft all black as per the Jacob's scheme and the wing being tested red & white like the Baron's wing.By doing this I hope to balance the two stories for visual impact.(small colorful object=large dark object). For those looking for historical facts this thread is not for you.I never let the truth stand in the way of a good story or a balance composition.My motto is"if it could have happened in the era,go for it".I am striving to make a piece of art here ,not a historical representation.
I am now working on the fabric covered plywood experiment for the fuselage, so far so good....
I am now working on the fabric covered plywood experiment for the fuselage, so far so good....
Removed by original poster on 01/04/14 - 14:18:07 (GMT).
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 02:14 AM UTC
"When you march into France, let the last man on the right brush the Channel with his sleeve."
- General Alfred von Schlieffen, referring to the Schlieffen Plan just prior to his death in 1913
The Fokker Dr.I Dreidecker (triplane) was a World War I fighter aircraft built by the company of Anthony Fokker, and designed by Reinhold Platz. It became most famous as the plane of the Red Baron, Manfred von Richthofen.
In April 1917 the Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS) introduced the Sopwith Triplane. Their debut was sensational and they swiftly proved to be superior to the Albatros and Halberstadt scouts then in use by the German Air Service. Soon the German pilots were clamoring for a triplane of their own. The majority of the German aircraft manufacturers, including Pfalz, AEG, DFW, Schatte-Lanz, and Euler, responded with new triplane designs. Most displayed little promise, though limited production of the Pfalz Dr. I was undertaken.
Fokker responded with the V.3, a small rotary-powered triplane with a tubular steel frame fuselage and thick cantilever wings. Fokker found several deficiencies in the V.3, particularly regarding control forces. Instead of submitting the V.3 for a type test, Fokker produced a revised prototype designated V.4. The most notable changes were horn-balanced ailerons and elevators, as well as wings of increased span. The V.4 also featured interplane struts, which were not necessary from a structural standpoint, but which had the effect of minimizing wing flexing. The V.4 proved highly manueverable and much superior to the triplane prototypes submitted by other manufacturers. The rudder and elevator controls were powerful and light. Rapid turns were facilitated by the triplane's directional instability. The ailerons were also light, but not very effective.
After a type test, an immediate production order ensued. The V.4 prototype was intentionally destroyed in static structural tests. The two pre-production examples, designated F.I, were delivered in the middle of August 1917. These were the only machines to receive the F.I designation. Delivery of production machines, designated Dr.I, commenced in October of that year.
Historical Account: "Der Rote Baron" - Manfred Albrecht Freiherr von Richthofen (May 2, 1892 - April 21, 1918) was a German pilot who is still regarded today as the "ace of aces". He was a military leader and flying ace and the most successful fighter pilot of World War I, racking up 80 aerial kills.
Richthofen is also known as "der rote Kampfflieger" ("Red Battle-Flyer") in German; "petit rouge" ("Little Red") or "le Diable Rouge" ("Red Devil") in French, and; the "Red Knight" or the "Red Baron" in the English-speaking world. The German translation of Red Baron is "der Rote Baron", and Richthofen is known by this name in Germany as well (although he was rarely referred to as "Baron" in Germany during his lifetime).
Interesting to find out how he got all of his different titles.
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 07:22 AM UTC
God of the North Wind depicts Fokker triplane 450/17, one of several flown by Ltn. Josef Jacobs, Staffelführer of Jasta 7. Jacobs was perhaps the biggest proponent of the Fokker triplane, and he flew it operationally longer than any other pilot, including Manfred von Richthofen. Although he is known to have flown at least two, and perhaps three black triplanes while serving with Jasta 7, 450/17 is his best known due to the description given in his wartime diary.
Although it is uncertain how frequently Jacobs flew 450/17,in his wartime diary he definitively attached that aircraft to one event - a balloon claim for May 14,1918. His combat report for that day reads as follows:
“Fok. Dr I 450/17: black triplane with a devil's head on both sides of the fuselage behind the pilot's seat. At 0410 hours I started with my Staffel for a patrol to the front - because there was little aerial activity, and I noticed some English balloons through the clouds, I decided for a balloon attack. With my whole Staffel I raced down through the clouds, immediately opening fire at the first which ignited at once, burning fiercely.”
Russell Smith Studios
Because he had flown 2 or 3 other black triplanes (for which I can find no further info )I think that I am safe in assuming that one of the others could have crashed and was hauled to the Fokker test facility.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 10:45 AM UTC
Its your diorama John but let me offer a few tidbits. I translated and published the Jacobs diary. He flew 2 triplanes Dr. I 450/17 & Dr.I 470/17. Using the loose barograph chart sections in his diary, I plotted the use of both machines. I am the one that discovered the serial to his Fokker D.VII. 450/17 was repainted in about June 1918 with the white crosses then the gonw was reapplied by Sept. The gonw was applied to his Fokker D.VII during that time. concurrently he used Dr.I 470/17 with all crosses in the balken or straight format. on the black fields it was represented by four white 90 degree angles for each cross. Similar to WWII German crosses. His Dr.I aircraft never left the front as he bartered for captured rotary motors, propellers and oil with bottles or crates of wine.
C&C Intl.
25 #2 1994 “Jasta 7 under Kobes Pt.I”
25 #3 1994 “Jasta 7 under Kobes Pt.II”
27 #2 1996 “Kobes in FFA 11"
29 #2 1998 “Sketches and Descriptions-Kobes”
Over the Front
7 #4 1992 “Kobes in Jasta 22"
9 #4 1994 “Kobes in Fosta W.”
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 10:50 AM UTC
Here is 470/17 in about Oct 3, 1918. 450/17 was destroyed on this date.
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 11:27 PM UTC
Thank you very much Stephen,your expertise is always welcome.Cheers! John.
dolly15
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 11:43 PM UTC
Fokker's V.4 prototype of 1917 (identified by some as the V.3) had unusual cantilevered wings without bracing, the uppermost wing being attached only by cabane struts to the fuselage. The wings vibrated excessively in flight and the next prototype, the V.5, featured a single interplane strut on each side, similar to the Sopwith but with no wires. This became the prototype of the famous Fokker Dr.I triplane of 1917, which would become immortalised as the aircraft most closely identified in popular culture with Manfred von Richthofen, the "Red Baron". Although it had a good rate of climb and was highly manoeuvrable it was not particularly fast. Following the break-up of two examples in the air the type was withdrawn from service for strengthening, and by the time it was re-introduced it was no longer at the forefront of performance.
The first sentence above pretty much describes Fokker's contribution to the triplane design.
The first sentence above pretty much describes Fokker's contribution to the triplane design.
dolly15
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Posted: Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 12:58 AM UTC