In my opinion most figures,even those done by professionals,look painted.What I mean is that they don't look natural and most look like toys.
Most modelers avoid the subject all together,some even going to ridiculous lengths not to include them ,a prime example is a fully rigged ship model with no one on board,not even at the helm.I call it the Mary Celeste syndrome.
Let me first say that I am a lousy face painter.I have tried and they all looked painted to me so out of necessity I have come up with my own solution,I just don't paint the faces.My figures would never even win an honorable mention at any model show but then again I don't paint for shows.Let me explain...
Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
How I (don't ) paint scale figures.
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Friday, December 20, 2013 - 03:47 AM UTC
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Friday, December 20, 2013 - 04:37 AM UTC
All of my dioramas have multiple figures in them ,even the ones not confined to a hangar or a boxed setting.No one has ever complained about the quality and I am sure that it is not because they don't want to hurt my feelings,they just never noticed.Too much painting detail,especially on the face can kill an otherwise splendid model.
I have often heard modelers say they don't do figures because they spoil an otherwise lifelike looking model, which in a lot of cases is true.Even models with the "Mary Celeste Syndrome" that cry out for figures are avoided at all costs.
I use figures mostly to add interest and scale to a piece and of course for storytelling.Sometimes there is just no way around it.In some instances however implied human presence can be just as powerful emotionally and maybe even more so . A couple of examples would be human footprints in the snow or mud, leading to a farmers out house during the early airmail era,or oily footprints across an abandoned hangar floor or even a yellow stain in the snow where a pilot had taken a nervous pee before taking off for battle.....
I have often heard modelers say they don't do figures because they spoil an otherwise lifelike looking model, which in a lot of cases is true.Even models with the "Mary Celeste Syndrome" that cry out for figures are avoided at all costs.
I use figures mostly to add interest and scale to a piece and of course for storytelling.Sometimes there is just no way around it.In some instances however implied human presence can be just as powerful emotionally and maybe even more so . A couple of examples would be human footprints in the snow or mud, leading to a farmers out house during the early airmail era,or oily footprints across an abandoned hangar floor or even a yellow stain in the snow where a pilot had taken a nervous pee before taking off for battle.....
drabslab
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,186 posts
AeroScale: 1,587 posts
Posted: Friday, December 20, 2013 - 07:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I have often heard modelers say they don't do figures because they spoil an otherwise lifelike looking model, which in a lot of cases is true.Even models with the "Mary Celeste Syndrome" that cry out for figures are avoided at all costs.
Guilty as charged.
No matter what you do with figures, they always remaina piece of plastic
Mcleod
Joined: April 07, 2010
KitMaker: 1,028 posts
AeroScale: 939 posts
Posted: Friday, December 20, 2013 - 07:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
In my opinion most figures,even those done by professionals,look painted.What I mean is that they don't look natural and most look like toys.
As I read your posts, I study the appearance of my aging hand. If I could make a figure look absolutely real, I would have to be concerned with too much more than just colors. The wrinkles, scars, pitts and hairs would all have to be included along with the extreme variations in subtle skin tones.
I remain so extremely impressed by your incredible modeling skills. However, I personally do not believe that an absolutely realistic model human figure is possible. Even wax figures in museums miss the mark, in my opinion. And I suppose that if I'm looking at a model figure, I'm subconsciously expecting animation.
Your incredible and relentless quest for perfection commands admiration. Well done, indeed.
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Friday, December 20, 2013 - 02:01 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextIn my opinion most figures,even those done by professionals,look painted.What I mean is that they don't look natural and most look like toys.
As I read your posts, I study the appearance of my aging hand. If I could make a figure look absolutely real, I would have to be concerned with too much more than just colors. The wrinkles, scars, pitts and hairs would all have to be included along with the extreme variations in subtle skin tones.
I remain so extremely impressed by your incredible modeling skills. However, I personally do not believe that an absolutely realistic model human figure is possible. Even wax figures in museums miss the mark, in my opinion. And I suppose that if I'm looking at a model figure, I'm subconsciously expecting animation.
Your incredible and relentless quest for perfection commands admiration. Well done, indeed.
Thank you Ben for your kind words,they mean a lot to this old guy.
Scale distance and the limitations of the human eye are good friends of the modeler.Diorama figures are meant to be viewed from a distance and all those small details just get filtered out and can't be seen anyway.Modelers who compete in painting contests expect that their pieces will be picked up and viewed very closely by the judges.There is a certain style that is expected by the judges but that just does not look completely natural either.Humans are so adept at reading the human face that even the slightest error or hint of emotion can usually be picked up by most of us.However I have seen some 2D work on the internet that comes very close to looking like a photograph.I also know of 3D miniature modelers that do great work in scale but never even attempt to paint their work.
This is probably because the art schools prefer clay,stone and bronzes to painted figures which they consider more of a craft.I am only guessing here because I never took an art lesson in my life.
Painting is special though,from the color blind to the masters we all see it a different way. There really is no right way to paint so in the end you just please yourself.
Personally I paint using artificial lighting with the emphasis on the intensity from above the figure,this tends to cast nice shadows where I want them.Figures with brimmed hats look great.
That is why I prefer enclosed spaces or shadow boxes because it allows for much more control over my work.The last diorama "The Homecoming" was all a new experience for me working in the open but even this piece was made to be displayed in the dim light of evening with some light coming from the windows of the row houses....
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Friday, December 20, 2013 - 04:55 PM UTC
Wow! How did that come up here? (Tongue firmly in cheek). Figures are not hard and it takes practice. Mine are not stellar quality when finished but it can be a great learning experience. Shep Paine's methods got me started.
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Friday, December 20, 2013 - 05:38 PM UTC
For the sake of our forum topic I'll stick with WWI subjects.
My finished versions of the DML busts. Very basic but in 1/12 scale mistakes are easy to see. I have never tried oils but the better figure painters swear by them.
MvR
Udet
MvR
MvR
Goerth
Rickenbacker
My finished versions of the DML busts. Very basic but in 1/12 scale mistakes are easy to see. I have never tried oils but the better figure painters swear by them.
MvR
Udet
MvR
MvR
Goerth
Rickenbacker
OEFFAG_153
Joined: February 19, 2010
KitMaker: 1,473 posts
AeroScale: 1,450 posts
Posted: Friday, December 20, 2013 - 10:24 PM UTC
Very nice pieces Stephen – I really like your treatments of the textures of the uniforms and leathers etc.
Though clearly painted, and an artists impression – I think they would enhance any collection of planes and add interest to the shelf they are placed on.
Figures do add a lot of interest to a diorama or a vignette – and in my experience its what people tend to look at first in a display of models. Its just something in the way we like to see ourselves... And you don´t have to be Rembrandt either. Painting figures is a lot of fun, and very satisfying!
Mikael
Though clearly painted, and an artists impression – I think they would enhance any collection of planes and add interest to the shelf they are placed on.
Figures do add a lot of interest to a diorama or a vignette – and in my experience its what people tend to look at first in a display of models. Its just something in the way we like to see ourselves... And you don´t have to be Rembrandt either. Painting figures is a lot of fun, and very satisfying!
Mikael
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Friday, December 20, 2013 - 11:55 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Wow! How did that come up here? (Tongue firmly in cheek). Figures are not hard and it takes practice. Mine are not stellar quality when finished but it can be a great learning experience. Shep Paine's methods got me started.
Shep's book is where I started too.He told me though, that if he was painting today he would use acrylics.I love his style which is what the judges expect to see when they are judging individual pieces after all he did set the standard in figure painting years ago.But it is not my style today,I am I guess what you would call a minimalist.The least amount of paint the better,let the lighting do it for you,especially when it comes to faces.My stuff depends heavily on the quality of the sculpture itself rather than paint.Thank heavens for me that there are some great miniature artists out there.I have always admired the miniaturists work especially when they are doing recognizable individuals such as the Baron etc..
Making dioramas in my opinion is using anything and everything that is available to you.My motto has always been "buy what you can and build what you must."Why try to reinvent the wheel ?
I am a great admirer of Chuck Doan's work.His landscaping is by far the best that I have ever seen and mostly scratch built however he does use bought models on occasion.I guess it is a matter of how much of other artists work you are comfortable in adapting to your own style.Chuck's detail is so over the top that I would still be working on my first diorama if I even attempted to emulate him.I guess that is why he seems to prefer vignettes but there again he does not use figures in his work either...
TAFFY3
Joined: January 21, 2008
KitMaker: 2,531 posts
AeroScale: 38 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 01:38 AM UTC
I agree that a figure, or figures, add a lot of interest to a subject, and I usually try to include at least one. There are different 'styles' to figure painting, and there is scale effect to consider also. A person standing sixty feet away will look a lot different than one standing just six feet away. As to style, some painters over emphasize shading, particularly when doing flesh tones, which to my eye makes a figure look unrealistic. The most glaring error I've noticed is in painting the whites of the eyes. A lot of times you'll see way too much white showing, giving a figure that "I've just seen a ghost" look. My solution when doing a 1/35 figure is not to paint the whites at all, just the pupils themselves. Also, I use a slightly different 'style' if painting a 'stand alone' figure, or small vignette, where people tend to look much closer than at a larger grouping in a diorama. The difference between viewing the Sistine Chapel and the Mona Lisa. Below are a couple of photos to help show what I mean. The first is a 1/10 scale bust.
The next two are of a 1/35 British Vosper MTB.
If you were to look at the figures really closely, they are much more simply painted than the bust, and you can't see the whites of their eyes. They were all done with Acrylics and Model Master paints. Just my two cents worth.
Al
The next two are of a 1/35 British Vosper MTB.
If you were to look at the figures really closely, they are much more simply painted than the bust, and you can't see the whites of their eyes. They were all done with Acrylics and Model Master paints. Just my two cents worth.
Aldolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 02:25 AM UTC
Very nice ! I especially like the expression on the face of the guy on the bow of the boat , it looks very natural and the painting really comes as close to the mark as possible with a stationary figure, in my opinion.
I don't paint the eyes period.I will shade the eye area sometimes with pastels and let it go at that and you know a funny thing happens.The viewers brain will usually fill in the rest automatically. We as human being are so used to seeing eyes there that we create our own.Try it with one of your own figures .Shine a light from above the face then stand back and let the shadows work their magic....
I don't paint the eyes period.I will shade the eye area sometimes with pastels and let it go at that and you know a funny thing happens.The viewers brain will usually fill in the rest automatically. We as human being are so used to seeing eyes there that we create our own.Try it with one of your own figures .Shine a light from above the face then stand back and let the shadows work their magic....
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 02:52 AM UTC
Even this close up if you stare at the face the eye will slowly come into view.
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 03:17 AM UTC
A little farther back and darker.
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 03:21 AM UTC
The original picture.The problem with this group of pics is that there is too much light on the objects under his arm pit and it distracts attention away from his face.These pics are taken with a hand held light which I am constantly moving around to help create the shadows I want.Short of using photo shop(which I don't know how to use anyway) I usually have to put up with these imperfections.It is basically a trade off.I am of the wabi-sabi school anyway,I find beauty in the imperfect and incomplete.
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 03:56 AM UTC
I guess it is just the time of year for reflection but I was just thinking today about Shep Paine and
all of the other artists that influenced me along the way.Thanks guys,I never got to know most of you but.....
Merry Christmas everybody.
all of the other artists that influenced me along the way.Thanks guys,I never got to know most of you but.....
Merry Christmas everybody.
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 22, 2013 - 01:19 AM UTC
Originally this figure did not have a hat,so I added one.I find that it makes the figure a lot more interesting.
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 22, 2013 - 01:33 AM UTC
The original pic.
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 22, 2013 - 02:37 AM UTC
More lighting !
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 22, 2013 - 12:55 PM UTC
Cropped pic.
Try to pay attention to different textures.Here
the fur on that back of the flying jacket is too shiny.This occurred probably by handling the figure too much prior to installation.It is the little things that the camera picks up every time.
Looks like WW1...
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 22, 2013 - 01:14 PM UTC
Think again!The full pic.
Here I had to be careful not to make the car look too much like a toy.I didn't want to weather it as it is a collectable model.
The car is 1/18th scale and the figures are 1/16th.I had to use a little forced perspective to make it look OK.Low angle shots are great for this.
CaptnTommy
Joined: October 26, 2009
KitMaker: 424 posts
AeroScale: 389 posts
Posted: Monday, December 23, 2013 - 08:33 AM UTC
The one thing I have seen in dolly15's figures having seen the nieuport diarama in Canada and seeing the photos here Is the light source. Dolly15 does not need the painting of the miniature figure because he provides the light. His figures stand in their own sun and shadows. Really nice job, sir.
Likewise when I do a miniature, I have to paint the shadow because I do not know where the light in a show table will come from. I look at faces as if I am puting stage makup on it. on maodel Pilots it is movie makeup.
Merry Christmas
Captn Tommy
Likewise when I do a miniature, I have to paint the shadow because I do not know where the light in a show table will come from. I look at faces as if I am puting stage makup on it. on maodel Pilots it is movie makeup.
Merry Christmas
Captn Tommy
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 12:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The one thing I have seen in dolly15's figures having seen the nieuport diarama in Canada and seeing the photos here Is the light source. Dolly15 does not need the painting of the miniature figure because he provides the light. His figures stand in their own sun and shadows. Really nice job, sir.
Likewise when I do a miniature, I have to paint the shadow because I do not know where the light in a show table will come from. I look at faces as if I am puting stage makup on it. on maodel Pilots it is movie makeup.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Glad you like the Nieuport shadowbox diorama.Actually they installed only part of the lighting,the walls of the hangar were meant to be lit too so that there would be light shining through the cracks in the boards too.I will put up a couple of pics showing what it was intended to look like.I did this mostly for photographic purposes.I build my stuff not only as models but as photo subjects too.I really enjoy both aspects of the hobby.
Merry Christmas, John,
FigureMad
Joined: May 09, 2006
KitMaker: 118 posts
AeroScale: 89 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 12:39 AM UTC
just thought I would pop up a couple I recently painted to be released next year by ModelCellar
120mm(1/16) figures, the groundwork is scratch built from plasticard with a few other bits added from plastic, metal and putty
120mm(1/16) figures, the groundwork is scratch built from plasticard with a few other bits added from plastic, metal and putty
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 01:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThe one thing I have seen in dolly15's figures having seen the nieuport diarama in Canada and seeing the photos here Is the light source. Dolly15 does not need the painting of the miniature figure because he provides the light. His figures stand in their own sun and shadows. Really nice job, sir.
Likewise when I do a miniature, I have to paint the shadow because I do not know where the light in a show table will come from. I look at faces as if I am puting stage makup on it. on maodel Pilots it is movie makeup.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Glad you like the Nieuport shadowbox diorama.Actually they installed only part of the lighting,the walls of the hangar were meant to be lit too so that there would be light shining through the cracks in the boards too.I will put up a couple of pics showing what it was intended to look like.I did this mostly for photographic purposes.I build my stuff not only as models but as photo subjects too.I really enjoy both aspects of the hobby.
Merry Christmas, John,
Here is a good example of what I mean.The overhead light is off and the figures have a washed out appearance with minimum paint.I just use a light flesh color and use a little pastels for shading,that is why I prefer shadow boxes
because I can set the stage lighting the way I want to.
The lighting outside the boards opens up the whole scene and gives the illusion of a much larger space.
Maybe some day I will go to the museum and light it properly.
dolly15
Joined: May 20, 2004
KitMaker: 8,227 posts
AeroScale: 3,915 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 02:01 AM UTC
These are great figures,I use a lot of the model cellar stuff but I modify them for my purposes,change uniforms,body position, and substitute different heads etc...Note that these figures are primarily lit from above too.
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 AeroScale and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.