World War II: Great Britain
Aircraft of Great Britain in WWII.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
Eduard Spitfire IX and Miracle Masks
Robbd01
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 - 12:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Mal!
Yes, of course a gloss coat now is the way to go. Good idea! Good tip about other masking options, as well. I'll have a look.

Painted markings might have become a must. Apart from the crispness of the underlying details, the thing I appreciate the most is the lack of carrier film. Painting the markings also give superior results where there otherwise would have been several decals on top of each other.

I read your post during lunch today and was intrigued, to say the least, about the surprise. Luckily, as I came home, the masks were in the mailbox. Hurray! Great surprise. Thank you so much! Now I have to order more masks, just to pay you back... maybe that was your plan?!

/Fredrik



I totally agree. Mal is quite the shrewd modeling businessman. At least he doesn't try to mask it... Oh gawd did just say that

Hey Mal, you have the other camo markings options that come with Eduards Royal Class spits ? If you do I might want put in my 2 picks on the ones I would like to do.

Cheers
Holdfast
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 - 07:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Luckily, as I came home, the masks were in the mailbox. Hurray! Great surprise. Thank you so much! Now I have to order more masks, just to pay you back... maybe that was your plan?!


Yes of course that is the plan Fredrik Well in actual fact this thread will pay me back, its a great advert for the use of masks, so world domination is a little closer


Quoted Text

Hey Mal, you have the other camo markings options that come with Eduards Royal Class spits ? If you do I might want put in my 2 picks on the ones I would like to do.

Cheers


Hi Robbie,
I don't at the moment, I did the two options as a promotion for the Eduard Spit, and I do have others that I have done. However as I produce paint masks to order you simply have to ask for the schemes that you want Contact me at [email protected] and I will send you an order form. Mention that you are a member of the KitMaker network for the 15% discount
FredrikA
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Posted: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 - 10:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Well in actual fact this thread will pay me back, its a great advert for the use of masks, so world domination is a little closer



Mal - I'm working my fingers to the bone promoting your masks here in Uppsala as well. So maybe not world domination yet, but soon local domination in central Sweden.

/F
Robbd01
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Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 12:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Hi Robbie,
I don't at the moment, I did the two options as a promotion for the Eduard Spit, and I do have others that I have done. However as I produce paint masks to order you simply have to ask for the schemes that you want Contact me at [email protected] and I will send you an order form. Mention that you are a member of the KitMaker network for the 15% discount



Ok Mal, but I will hold off ordering until I get closer to building them since you make masks to order. I was just wondering if you already made a set and you could make another set for me. I have your contact info on file and will contact you when I am ready. I am currently enjoying the beer glass that came with the Royal Class kit. Explains the cheers I do.

Cheers
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 04:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Fred, Just a great tutorial on how to use masks. I'm really impressed to say the least. I do have one question. In several of the pictures there are lines to center the mask. Are those on the mask, or do you have to actually draw them on the surface? And if so, won't that leave marks on the painted surface when they're removed?

Joel



Thank you, Joel! I just remembered that I have to take a tour to another part of the forum. I suppose your new build is in some kind of Cold War area.

The lines are added by me, following Mal's instructions. You want them for two things - aid you when placing the masks and when replacing elements of the masks, like the different rings in a roundel. They are made with a permanent marker. I want to say a pen for overhead film, but no one uses that anymore and I saw that they were labelled CD markers in the store now. Use one with a fine tip.

As you draw these lines before you add your masks to the model, there is no risk of creating marks on the surface of the model. And of course you draw the lines on the surface and the marker doesn't go through.

Ask again if you need more info.

/Fred



Fred,
Yes, the F4B 11 is in the cold war forum. I usually check all the build forums a several times per week. Although I have to admit having no fondness what so ever for today's jet aircraft. Nothing much about them nor their paint schemes interest me in the least. Now those WW1 wire wonders really entice me, but I've never found the nerve to tackle one with all that rigging.

If you're using a marker, with permanent which doesn't come off. Wouldn't it be rather hard to cover it with white, yellow, light green, or even red? I've had issues trying to cover pencil, and thus shy away from using it on painted surfaces.
Joel
Jessie_C
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Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 05:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If you're using a marker, with permanent which doesn't come off. Wouldn't it be rather hard to cover it with white, yellow, light green, or even red? I've had issues trying to cover pencil, and thus shy away from using it on painted surfaces.



It would definitely cause problems if you use the marker on the model so it's lucky that you're supposed to use it on the masks before you put them on the model
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 06:58 AM UTC
[quote
It would definitely cause problems if you use the marker on the model so it's lucky that you're supposed to use it on the masks before you put them on the model [/quote]

Jess, thanks. You can see that I have next to no experience with masks.

Joel
FredrikA
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Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 07:04 AM UTC
Joel: I'll take a few pictures of the application process and post them... in a day or two.

/Fred
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 09:44 AM UTC

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Joel: I'll take a few pictures of the application process and post them... in a day or two.

/Fred



Fred, thank you
Joel
Holdfast
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Posted: Thursday, February 06, 2014 - 08:07 PM UTC

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Mal - I'm working my fingers to the bone promoting your masks here in Uppsala as well. So maybe not world domination yet, but soon local domination in central Sweden.



Well Fredrik, to help push the world domination forward I will do what I have done for the French modelling community. I have sold a few sets to modellers who have seen Jean-Lucs build in the French Tamiya mag (available in the UK version as well) and I have given them a 15% discount (normal price £11.50 so £9.75. This is just for the 2 versions that I did for the promotion, any others for a Spitfire in 1/48 scale, without any nose art are £9.50 (all + P&P)

Quoted Text

Ok Mal, but I will hold off ordering until I get closer to building them since you make masks to order. I was just wondering if you already made a set and you could make another set for me. I have your contact info on file and will contact you when I am ready. I am currently enjoying the beer glass that came with the Royal Class kit. Explains the cheers I do.

Cheers


No problem Robbie, just drop me a line when you are ready. I have quite a few examples of masks for Spitfires in my files, but the price is the same whether I create them for you or I already have them (that is how I keep the price down) All I need are some good references as getting the style of the codes and serials correct is the key to an accurate set of Masks


Quoted Text

If you're using a marker, with permanent which doesn't come off. Wouldn't it be rather hard to cover it with white, yellow, light green, or even red? I've had issues trying to cover pencil, and thus shy away from using it on painted surfaces.
Joel


Hi Joel, this is interesting and a heads up for me The marks are optional but, certainly for multi part roundels I have found them very useful as they make re-application of the elements just a bit easier. The marks will have paint over them but they are visible (or should be) enough so that they can be used as a reference point. Align one mark, lay the mask down towards one of the adjacent marks, if it hits the mark dead on then the element will fit perfectly. The adjustment only has to be made to hit the second mark, the mask element is only touching over a quarter of its whole, so lifting and re-positioning is trouble free; it will actually only need a a very slight amount of movement to align the marks and the process is very easy Stars & Bars are even easier, I have altered my instructions to suggest that the marks are not really required, even on the type with the red bar
FredrikA
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Posted: Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 01:51 AM UTC
So, for those of you who have read earlier posts, it's been a couple of days and due to some confusion about markers and masks here are a few pictures and some text about that.

When placing the masks there are two things to think about. The first is that you want the masks placed where you want them. For this reason I try to find some sort of a physical feature on the model that can be used as a reference for placing the mask. This physical feature is usually a panel line. In this example I'm placing the serial number and you can see on Eduard's profile that the serial is supposed to sit on such a line.


The next step is to add a guiding line on the surface of the mask. I have been doing this using a permanent marker and a ruler. So, just for clarification, the marker or the marks made with it will never touch the actual model.


And here the marker line is aligned with the panel line. After this particular mask I have changed my method though. I am now using a very thin pencil instead, basically a regular 0.5mm pencil that I have sharpened a little bit extra. The reason for this change is that I want these placement lines to be more precise and as they don't have to be visible after painting the first colour(s), it doesn't matter if the pencil line is very light compared to the permanent marker.


The second thing to think about, is that some masks have to be repositioned. Such as the roundel masks seen below and this is what Mal describes in his post above. That means that these lines have to be visible even after one or two layers of paint and therefore I still use the permanent marker here.


I hope that clarified things with the masking process. It really isn't that difficult and Mal provides very good step by step instructions for each kind of mask supplied.

So apart from this I have been making my way forward with the models. The Clostermann Spitfire has been given a set of no walk lines. This time no masks were used, but it is a fairly straight forward procedure and the results are very pleasing. There really isn't any reason to use decals for these lines and the anti-slip area at the wing root.






The other Spit - the one with the nose art, which you can see a couple of pictures further up in this post - has been given all of its roundels and fin flashes. The procedure was very much the same as the one I've already shown, so no pictures on that. However, there are some more interesting masks on this one given that it has a Polish checkerboard and the nose art on the nose. And although I find Mal's roundel masks excellent, they are pretty straight forward. The masks for the checkerboard and the nose art are much more complicated and this is where Mal's genius shows through.

The checkerboard has been painted all white, some very small masks have been added and red has been applied. Remove all mask elements and you get a very nice looking checkerboard.


If the checkerboard was a slightly more complicated mask due to its size, or lack of it. Then the nose art is slightly more complicated because of its many different colours. I think that the nose art is made up by five different masks. So compared to the roundel masks that have three or four pieces but really are just one mask, this mask is made up by several consecutive masks placed in the same space. The genius bit with this mask is that it has a box, also made of masking material, that provides exact locationing for the different elements. You can see the positioning box just inside the yellow masking tape. So first you add this box and the first mask in one go, spray a bit of yellow. Remove the mask, add the new one and spray some red.


Remove the second mask and dance a little happy dance. Results are still fantastic! Next up is some naked skin...


Mvh
/Fred
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 02:28 AM UTC
Fred, thanks for that lesson on using masks. Looks pretty straight forward once you learn the procedure for multi colored masks. I guess that the next issue is not guessing but making sure that you're using the right colors.

Glad that you clarified the markers and pencil lines. I really did think that they continued onto to the surface of the model.
Joel
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Posted: Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 03:14 AM UTC
Very impressive. Without a doubt, masks are the way to go for markings.

Beautiful model, by the way!
Mcleod
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Posted: Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 03:46 AM UTC
Great modelling; and a very educational thread. Well done!
FredrikA
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Posted: Friday, February 14, 2014 - 05:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Fred, thanks for that lesson on using masks. Looks pretty straight forward once you learn the procedure for multi colored masks. I guess that the next issue is not guessing but making sure that you're using the right colors.

Glad that you clarified the markers and pencil lines. I really did think that they continued onto to the surface of the model.
Joel



My pleasure, Joel! I do lessons for a living, but they are usually about the less nice men of history... Using the masks is straightforward. Get a set and give it a try. I'm sure you'll enjoy them. About colours; accuracy is tricky and it's all up to the builder. The good thing is of course that there are paint manufacturers that make the proper paints, but you are really in control - if you want a sun bleached look you create it, and who's to say that you're wrong!? I'm not really that into the historically correct, neither in building nor in painting. It helps me complete my models. I'm a little bit unhappy with the greys on my Spits and I will try and find a better one... for my next build. Then of course there is the fact that the colours will change under gloss coats and post shading and washes. But good luck in your quest for the right colours and if you come up with anything good, please enlighten us all. (I had to rephrase from tell to enlighten, so that I could use that smiley. )

Thank you Richard and Ben for some Canadian praise and support! Much appreciated!

It's a lousy winter in my part of Sweden this year, but I'm off for some skiing in a few days so no modelling for a while. Before then and in between my children being ill and bedded down, I managed to finish the nose art. Is fantastic what some naked skin can do lift your spirits!

I really didn't have a flesh colour so I borrowed one from my sons' collection of War Hammer Citadel colours. I don't remember the name of it, but they tend to have slightly more intriguing names than my colours do. RLM66 is very informative, but not that fun. It went on fine and the masks kept doing their job.


Nose art finished! A bit flat and featureless though. Mal suggests that you use a fine brush to add some shades and eyes and stuff.


That was difficult! In the end I used an extremely sharp pencil to add some contours to the girl. With the help of the camera lens what you see is really too revealing. You'll have to take my word for it, when I say that it looks fine in reality. It's just that blob on her chest that annoys me, but it is exaggerated by the light and not that obvious in reality.



Take care
/Fredrik
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Posted: Sunday, February 16, 2014 - 07:09 PM UTC
Nicely done with the "Pat" nose art Fredrik. I only know that it works by doing the graphics for the instructions as there is no way that I have the time to actually paint the nose art to test it. This one is really a bit too small and with shading it is very difficult to finish off and, to be honest, I really expected that the kit decal would be used. It will be easier in 1/32 scale I do produce masks for the wing walk lines and the wing leading edge yellow flashes, and I also do the dashed lines for the warning marks over the wheel wells and for the trestle markings under the wings, but I haven't tried cutting them in 1/48 scale.
Very nicely done overall Fredrik, I'm looking forward to seeing the final result
FredrikA
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Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 - 09:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Nicely done with the "Pat" nose art Fredrik. I only know that it works by doing the graphics for the instructions as there is no way that I have the time to actually paint the nose art to test it.



What are you saying Mal?! No quality control!!! Good thing, there are others who can try it out for you then. And there really is no problem with the quality! Here is a pic with the Pat the Painted and Pat the Decal next to each other... They are different, but it's a matter of taste when one decides which one is the best. I like my painted one.


[edit] sorry for the lousy focus


Quoted Text

Very nicely done overall Fredrik, I'm looking forward to seeing the final result



So am I, Mal. So am I. I'm back from skiing and with just a slightly bruised right hand (If you fall, you really shouldn't land on one hand and your face ), I hope to be able to put som gloss on today. Then some decals and all the small fiddly things that will bring all together.

On the fact that you make masks for the wing walk lines and other things. Here is a couple of pictures of your masks for the German kind being used. Thank you for those!

/Fredrik



Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, February 21, 2014 - 03:07 AM UTC
Oh Wow!! Those wing lines are simply incredible.
Joel
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Posted: Friday, February 21, 2014 - 08:18 PM UTC

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What are you saying Mal?! No quality control!!! Good thing, there are others who can try it out for you then. And there really is no problem with the quality!



There is quality control, but I just don't have the time to actually paint this type of thing! I just know that it will work when I produce the graphics for the instructions, because I use the drawings of the actual masks When I did some research on the "Pat" nose art I decided that Eduards rendition wasn't quite correct, mainly that the bomb is too narrow, but some sources have the lady riding a Champagne bottle!

Painted on "no walk" markings are a much better alternative to a decal
Antoni
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Posted: Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 01:59 AM UTC
The original 'PAT'. It was originally thought that she was riding a champagne bottle until quite recently photographs turned up that showed it was in fact a bomb.

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Posted: Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 05:08 AM UTC
She got a bad deal. I'd much rather ride a champagne bottle than a bomb
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Posted: Saturday, February 22, 2014 - 07:18 PM UTC
That's a photo that I haven't seen and it looks like Eduard got it more accurate, I will look at changing my masks
FredrikA
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Posted: Thursday, February 27, 2014 - 09:11 AM UTC
I agree with Terri. Riding a champagne bottle seems like a better deal, than riding that bomb!

Thanks for that pic of Pat the Original, Antoni. It sure looks like Eduard's decal would have been closer to the original. Be that as it may, Mal's masks worked and it produced a very good painted nose art. I'll se if I will try to give my Pat a red bow or not.

About the painted dashes on my Fw 190 - all the painted markings are truly fantastic compared to the decal alternative. However, with decals like those for German no walk lines that have a relatively large amount of carrier film the visible difference seems to be more obvious.

Workwise I'm done with all the small decals on one and waiting for another set of stencils for the second. They left Hannants yesterday. Might do some post-shading tomorrow. I've usually done that prior to decals on earlier builds, but I guess it makes sense to save it until all the decals are on. I also saw in Matrixone's Me 163 thread, that he over sprayed the stencils lightly to blend them in. Clever idea!

Maybe a picture next time.
/Fredrik

FredrikA
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Posted: Friday, February 28, 2014 - 02:20 AM UTC
A question -
Wouldn't a late Spitfire IX have torque links attached to its landing gear legs? According to Eduard's instructions the answer is no, but my sources leans more towards yes.

Or could I simply choose one option since there is no definite answer? Unless Antoni happens to have a picture of "Pat's" legs...

/F
Antoni
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Posted: Friday, February 28, 2014 - 04:18 AM UTC
No problem. NB. No black and white stripes under the wings.