Anthony,
Thanks for stopping by and having a look. The kit is a fast build, especially compared to the P-61 that just went on forever.
Joel

Been really frustrated with the entire painting process on this build. It has nothing to do with the model, it has to do with the paints.

I always use Tamiya Acrylics, and have very slowly been sneaking in more and more Model Master enamels, as nothing paints like enamels, but the long drying time is still an issue for me. Anyway, as I posted, I didn't want to mix all the colors for the RAF Desert camo scheme, so I decided to try both Vallejo model air for the Azure Blue, and the new Italeri acrylics for the Middle Stone & Dark Earth.

I washed the entire model down with Iso Alcohol, and primed as needed with Tamiya Gray primer. I then airbrushed on the Vallejo Azure Blue thinned about 1:1 with water and a few drops of their retarder. I attempted to apply the paint starting at 20 psi but the needle and cone just kept on clogging. Finally got the paint down, but had to use 25 psi, which is absolutely unacceptable, as it causes a ton of over spray.

I let it dry for a few days, then using Tamiya tape I masked off the bottom, (the tape was 1st applied to my arm to reduce the stickiness).

In the interim I did a few practice sessions with the Italeri paints. I thinned it 1:1 with Tamiya X20-A which created "glue" in the glue. Once that mess was cleaned up, I went back to using room temp tap water. I used a mixture of 3 parts water to 2 parts paint plus a drop of retarder. I tested this mixture at 16 psi, and I could draw a fine line with it. No real over spray!! So I used this mixture to paint the base Middle stone color on the entire top surface, and let it dry for several hours.

Every time I touched the paint, it seemed to just scratch right off. Touch my finger nail to it, and the paint just comes right off. Tamiya acrylics once dry just stick to the surface. I did a few google searchers, and sure enough, it's another known issue. The upside is that the paint is self leveling and you can just over paint till the scratches are covered without any tell tail signs. Still a P.I.T.A.

I let the re-touch paint dry another full day. Still the paint easily is scratched off.

I'm doing the camo scheme as a soft edge, so I don't have to mask, but it's impossible with handling not to scratch the surface. thought about applying a few coats of Pledge to help seal the paint, but I'm not sure I want to add that step.

Joel

Spent a few more hours struggling with the Italeri paints. These new acrylics just aren't my cup of tea. I've gotten to the point with the Spit that I've just put it down, or rather back in it's build box for the time being.

I used the 3 parts water to 2 parts paint plus 1 part retarder. Set the compressor to 16 psi and then started the free hand camo scheme. The paint started to flow nicely, then it ran like the water just separated from the paint. Never seen that before. As I handled the model, little scratches kept on appearing. Finally it just became more then I'm willing to deal with. Will take a break from the Spit build for now. When I pick it up again, it's going to be painted with Model Master enamels.

Joel

Noooo.....
I understand your feelings of disappointment and frustration and hope that you can get new colours quickly so that you finish it.

Also no, but on a different thing... I also have the Italeri paints but haven't used them yet. Your story about them isn't very encouraging, but thanks for the report.

/F

Hi Joel. I've been really enjoying this thread, read through it a few times but not commented until now. I'm really sorry to hear about your paint problems mate, things have been going so well to this point. Like you, I mainly use Tamiya acrylics for airbrushing, with a few select colours from Gunze acrylic, and never have any problems with the airbrush or paint adhesion. I have been tempted a couple of times to try other brands, but then stop and think, if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it!

I really hope that a few days rest will cure the paint properly so you can crack on, I can't wait to see the next progress report.

Cheers, D

I feel your pain Joel , been there myself when trying out new paint brands . This isn't the first time I have heard this issue with Italeri by modellers on other forums .

I haven't tried their range of paints yet then again none of the LHS carry it . For the longest time I used nothing but Testors Model Master enamels . When their acrylic range of paints came out I tried those with ill effects . Even tried Pollyscale with the same results . Always gumming up never spray right , not sticking to the surface etc..etc..

Then I started using Tamiya paints with their thinner . They sprayed beautifully but I had the problem with them chipping and scratching . I switched to lacquer thinner and no more issues with the paint chipping or scratching anymore . The paint also sprays better as well . It melts the paint particles for a better bond to the prime or bear plastic .


I have tried Vallejo air and don't care for really but I do use their standard line for brush painting . Here I use water to thin and clean up and will also use them for washes made with water and a drop of dish soap .



Water is fine for thinning but when it comes to the airbrush it doesn't atomize the mix for spraying , hence the glogging on the tip . The better the atomization the better and smoother the finish will be . I stopped using rattle cans for my sealing coat and now use Testors bottle dull coat now and I use a hell of a lot less !




Terri

Terri,
Thanks for the advice and support.

I've been a Tamiya acrylic guy for the last 3-4 years since I came back to the hobby. Before that it was Testor Model Master enamels. Never had any issues with the enamels, and I painted like a true rookie. Started off with cans of compressed air, then got a small utility compressor that just ran all the time with no psi control. Painted that way for years, and like I said, never had any issues. Guess back then we just didn't know any better.

The Tamiya acrylics are completely different then the Vallejo, Italeri, & Model Master lines. They're Alcohol bases, not water based. I normally use X20-A to thin, but do use the yellow cap lacquer thinner when I want a really smooth finish. It's the smell and complaining from my wife that actually dictates what I paint with. Yes, I know I should use my paint booth all the time, but I don't. It's a PIA to setup and take down for small jobs.

1st I struggled to get Italeri/Vallejo paints to even shoot at 25 psi. Finally figured that out and can shoot at 16 psi for nice control. Then I ran into the scratch right off issue. Having to seal every coat is another PIA I don't want to have to do. Masking was a nightmare to say the least. Then yesterday I ran into the water separation issue that just drove me over the edge.

For the time I spent playing around with these new paints, I could have found Tamiya mixes for the 3 colors, and the Spit would have been painted by now. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

Periodically, when a build just goes south on me, and it becomes a struggle and exercise in frustration, back in its build box it goes. Sometimes I eventually finish it, but some times it stays there as a lost child. Makes no sense as it's not the models fault, but I just lost interest in the build. Right or wrong that's me.

Honestly, I'm not even sure I want to pick up the F4 right now either, as I haven't taken a break from one build to the next in years.

One thing is for sure, I'm going back to Tamiya acrylics and Model Master enamels only. BTW, the Spit's interior is MM enamel. No issues painting it.

Joel

Hi Joel,

The Spit's looking good so far. I feel your pain when it comes to changing paints. I made the switch from enamels to acrylics about 5 years ago and found them a steep learning curve. When it comes to brands it's gotta be Gunze Aqueous (Mr. Hobby) all the way. If you can get them, just get them and you'll see. Spray great, I mix with a ratio of 2 parts de-ionized (distilled water) and 1 part IPA alcohol, which then makes up 50% of the paint/thinner mix. Gunze also have the whole range of RAF colours you need. With Vallejo paints I only use the model Air range, which I thin 4:1 with a thinner. The biggest plus of Vallejo is the ease of use and the health factor. The biggest issues would be the clogging you've experienced and the way some of the colours are way off, e.g. the Vallejo suggested RAF colours are miles from the originals. Never tried Italeri, but I heard once upon a time they were made by Vallejo, but I can't be sure. Will be giving them a miss after what you've described.
Looking forward to seeing her finished

Michael,
Thanks for the encouragement. Like I said, the Spit is on hold. Going back to what I'm most comfortable with; enamels. I can shoot Tamiya Acrylics just fine. It's these new water based acrylics I just can't come to terms with. Found plenty of posts online with guys having the paint scratching issues, and the lightest of tapes lifting the paint. Only cure is sealing every layer of paint. Now that's a PIA, and also builds up too much in the panel lines, so that when you get to the pin wash stage, there's another issue to be dealt with.

Eventually I'll finish it, but for now I just want to move on.
Joel

Hi Joel

A man after my own heart - I find enamels far easier to work with than acrylics. It's probably "politically incorrect" these days to say such a thing.

Be that as it may - I just "know where I am" with enamels, whereas acrylics (for all their advantages) are something of an adventure every time for me...

Having said that, I've just ordered a bundle of fresh Gunze Sangyo acrylics (which I did have great results with before they all but disappeared in UK many years ago) for an upcoming project for a manufacturer. No pressure there then...

All the best

Rowan

Rowan,
All acrylics ever did was speed up the painting process. Sure didn't improve the quality of the paint finish.

Lets see how long it takes me actually pick up the Spit again. In the mean time there is the F4B to be finished, and a long list of WW11 aircraft starting with the F2A-3 Buffalo.
Joel