_GOTOBOTTOM
Air Campaigns
Want to start or join a group build? This is where to start.
Hosted by Frederick Boucher, Michael Satin
Now Enlisting: Zemke's Wolfpack - 56th FG
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
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Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
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Posted: Friday, October 09, 2015 - 03:39 AM UTC
Hi Torsten. It will be great to have your double build on board for this journey!
The reason for the Build Log requirement for each builder stems from earlier in the thread with a comment from Mal:

Quoted Text

! I would be up for this but the reason that I haven't put my name down is that I never finish a model that I enter in a campaign; the other reason is that, in my opinion there are far too many campaigns. Now don't get me wrong they would be great but the blogs are contained within the campaign threads which means that if you don't keep up then you will miss something, this in turn makes viewers less likely to comment because finding all the blog posts within the thread is a nightmare! If the blogs were started in there own right then a) they would be easy to follow and b) there would be many more post on Aeroscale.

I have also been thinking for a while now about a larger scale "Operation" here on the WWII forums along the lines of the Knights Of The Skies group builds on the Early Aviation forums.
There are some clear benefits to the users and the site with individual build logs making it much easier to follow particular build progress and make relevant comments, and increased number of build log threads encouraging more traffic and comment on the site. There is also the opportunity to post images and information from research into individual pilots and aircraft and keep them more relevant and focussed on your own build.

Cheers, D
c4willy
#305
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Christchurch, New Zealand
Joined: February 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,673 posts
AeroScale: 1,517 posts
Posted: Friday, October 09, 2015 - 08:36 AM UTC
I have no trouble running the campaign and build log. .... the campaign thread gets a couple of pics and a direction to check out the log for a full blow by blow of the build. I find that the input from a diverse group of modelers to be very encouraging and often the tips provided send me in directions I would generally never head. I deeply appreciate the advice and comradeship provided by the group of modelers who frequent my builds.
BlackWidow
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European Union
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,732 posts
AeroScale: 1,336 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 04:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text

.... The reason for the Build Log requirement for each builder stems from earlier in the thread with a comment from Mal ....

Cheers, D


Hm, I see, but please let me explain my point of view.
Let's say we have 20 participants in this campaign and everyone of us opens an own build blog in the WW2 forum for his model. Honestly, I would loose the overview with all that. On the other hand, if we post our WIP photos only in the campaign thread we could follow easier, because we see who builds what, e.g. "this is Gary's P-47, this is Damian's P-47, this is Chris' P-47" and so on.
Please don't get me wrong and I don't want to offend anyone here, but rule 2 makes no sense to me in combination with rule 3. It's not that I would not open a build blog, it's just that I don't understand the reason behind it. I hope my english is good enough to make you understand what I mean.
Oh, and btw, we should not use the word "must" in our hobby. There are so many things I must do in my job because I get money for it. But for my scale model kits I don't get 1 Cent. It's just for the fun of it. So there's nothing I "must" do with them. Otherwise we should have another rule, that everyone "must" finish his build within the campaign time ....

Happy modelling!
Torsten
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
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Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
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Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 07:38 AM UTC
Hi Torsten.

We are getting into that "you can't please all of the folks all of the time" territory.

From Mal:

Quoted Text

Now don't get me wrong they would be great but the blogs are contained within the campaign threads which means that if you don't keep up then you will miss something, this in turn makes viewers less likely to comment because finding all the blog posts within the thread is a nightmare!


From Torsten:

Quoted Text

On the other hand, if we post our WIP photos only in the campaign thread we could follow easier, because we see who builds what, e.g. "this is Gary's P-47, this is Damian's P-47, this is Chris' P-47" and so on.


Two directly opposing but equally valid opinions.

My desire for this Campaign is to encourage more involved builds and subject research input from each participant which I believe will lead to a single Campaign thread becoming very cluttered. If we separate each build into its own build log, I take on the responsibility of posting regular updates and links to the various build threads, and the participants can post as often as they like in the main thread as well. Rule 2 is a hangover from my previous campaigns, but I thought it would be useful to have perhaps a starting pic (kit box and sprues) and a halfway pic from each participant in the main thread. I envisage that the individual build logs will be much more comprehensive than just a couple of build progress images.

With regard to the use of the word "MUST" I am certainly not dictating to you how to build your models or how to enjoy your hobby, I am merely listing what is required in order to qualify for a ribbon at the end of the campaign period. I apologise if that caused any misunderstanding.

Keep the comments coming folks, I really want to make this as enjoyable and accessible as possible to everybody.

Cheers, D
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: September 30, 2002
KitMaker: 8,581 posts
AeroScale: 4,913 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 11:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hm, I see, but please let me explain my point of view.
Let's say we have 20 participants in this campaign and everyone of us opens an own build blog in the WW2 forum for his model. Honestly, I would loose the overview with all that. On the other hand, if we post our WIP photos only in the campaign thread we could follow easier, because we see who builds what, e.g. "this is Gary's P-47, this is Damian's P-47, this is Chris' P-47" and so on.
Please don't get me wrong and I don't want to offend anyone here, but rule 2 makes no sense to me in combination with rule 3. It's not that I would not open a build blog, it's just that I don't understand the reason behind it. I hope my english is good enough to make you understand what I mean.
Oh, and btw, we should not use the word "must" in our hobby. There are so many things I must do in my job because I get money for it. But for my scale model kits I don't get 1 Cent. It's just for the fun of it. So there's nothing I "must" do with them. Otherwise we should have another rule, that everyone "must" finish his build within the campaign time ....


My point is that unless you keep up with the thread then many of the build blogs within it are difficult to catch up with, I then don't bother. It always seems that a few of those that signed up have a nice dialog over their models but very few, if any, outside the campaign actually join in. Many arriving at Aeroscale are probably put off by the number of campaigns, see this sceen shot:



A full page, and more of nothing but campaigns, I was put off by this! The point about posting a seperate blog is to help the site as there will be very much more content and it makes it easy to follow each one. If the blogs are titled with a given title+the owners aircraft then how is that confusing? The campaigns are a method, or should be, to bring more interest and more content to the site but in their present for (self contained) they do little of both.

A campaign usually says that you must post a finished picture in the gallery to gain the ribbon, its a simple function of gaining the "reward". Personally I'm easy about how campaigns are run, if I don't like the rules I don't play. I have found that I tend not to post on threads these days and I am sure that it is something to do with apathy brought on by the overwhelming amount of campaigns.
bomber14
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 02, 2015
KitMaker: 330 posts
AeroScale: 286 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 06:20 PM UTC
hello gentlemen, I am new here so maybe my opinion does not carry much weight but it seems to me that if everyone created their own build blog that that would in itself make things more cluttered and difficult to follow. plus you would not get input from other modelers as easily. I just completed my first campaign (me262) and it was fine. I was able to keep up with everyone's progress because it was all there under one roof so to speak. by making individual blogs will be sending viewers all over the place trying to tie all the builds together and see who is doing what. I believe in the saying " if it ain't broke don't fix it". I would have to say then that I would agree with torstens point of view, labeling something a "must" is the same as a requirement as in a requirement to an individual campaign build blog. I am considering joining this campaign but have no interest in starting an individual blog for it or seeing it done in general. if that's the case I would not join up.
joe.
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: September 30, 2002
KitMaker: 8,581 posts
AeroScale: 4,913 posts
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2015 - 12:08 PM UTC
It looks like that I am in the minority, as there are more than enough members for the campaign then I'm happy to step down then you can have the requirement for separate blogs removed.

The main reason for separate blogs is for the benefit of the site as there would be many more posts about aircraft. With the functions available within the site you only need to "follow" the ones from the campaign or, if you don't want to do that, then simply posting on the blog when it first appears will highlight it for you if you use the "what's new" function. That all makes it very easy to follow any particular build.
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
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Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 8,156 posts
AeroScale: 3,756 posts
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2015 - 06:48 PM UTC
Mal, I don't believe that you are in the minority. Don't pull the pin just yet mate, I'm determined to get this one moving.

Joe, Thanks for your interest and input. You shouldn't look at this as you would a normal 6 month campaign. The aim of this is to encourage a much more detailed and comprehensive build log including research and inclusion of information and images if possible of the pilot and/or aircraft alongside your build. The twelve month duration will also encourage builds including more after-market items, scratch building, larger scales and dioramas that would normally not be seen in a shorter campaign. This has been done several times in recent years on the Early Aviation forums (Knights of the Sky and Canvas Falcons come to mind) and regularly on the Shipwrights forums, although on the Shipwrights forums the individual blog is generally at the builders discretion.

I acknowledge that this format will not appeal to everybody, but I really hope that you would follow the various builds and contribute input where you can.

Cheers, D

Edit: I never thought we would open such a can of worms doing this!
c4willy
#305
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Christchurch, New Zealand
Joined: February 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,673 posts
AeroScale: 1,517 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 11:52 AM UTC
I thought you would've learned by now D that you get two opposing viewpoints and we modellers will debate it till the cows come home!

I can see things from both points of view, I would like to suggest that we STRONGLY urge our compatriots to start build logs but I agree with Torsten to a certain extent, if it becomes onerous then it mitigates our enjoyment of our hobby. I don't find build logs onerous and as you can see I've started a number of them. I "enjoy" sharing what I've done the issues I've found and the "pats on the back" from fellow modellers provide me with validation from my peers. I don't get that from the wife and kids I get ... yeah it's a plane ... so???

@Mal: I understand where you're coming from Mal, and I sympathise. I have all the campaigns I'm a part of and a couple of build logs open in tabs on my browser permanently and any additions generally become obvious. I also subscribe to all the campaigns I'm in and the build logs I watch, this then sends me an email every time somebody posts something. I get these over the course of the day on my phone and my home PC. I can then browse them at leisure over my breaks if I feel like doing so.

But I also see this:- The more content we have on the site the more "traffic" we pull in from the search engines and we maximize the potential for finding new members. Which helps build our "fan" base. It also helps with the revenue (if any) we generate from advertising on our site. Running this site is not free and every little bit helps. And we have a small but dedicated staff who makes sure this all works for us. It's organised in a thoughtful and what appears to be logical way that I found very easy to navigate my way around in.

As far as not seeing others work, yes we often see the kit as it appears in the box and then the finished model with little in between. BUT! Isn't there always a but? I think it boils down to time .... how much time you have to invest in your hobby ie building the kit and how much time you have remaining to invest in showing and or describing the process you went through. I have plenty of time to "invest" as I have little else outside of work that consumes my free time (some might just call that sad .... I call it damn fantastic! LOL)

In the end I think it should be a conscience vote, we are here after all to share our "enjoyment" of our hobby with like minded individuals ..... well hopefully LOL!

In the end we can all agree to disagree but the camaraderie remains!

Errrrr gets down off soapbox .... sorry I got kinda carried away there.
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: December 23, 2005
KitMaker: 6,249 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 12:21 PM UTC
Individual Campaign Managers set the rules/guidelines for the campaigns and also give up lot of their (often extremely limited) free time to run the campaigns.

Please respect the guidelines for each campaign.

If they appeal to you, enter the group build.

If they aren't to your individual likings, don't enter.

Simple 🍻

spaarndammer
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: January 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,945 posts
AeroScale: 388 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 01:22 PM UTC
@Nigel: I like the first 56th Fighter group book very much. So I wondered when part 2 is scheduled?



Jelger
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: December 23, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 01:56 PM UTC
Looks like it's going to be 3 volumes in total.
Tentatively started work on volume 2.
No idea of time frame I'm afraid.

The Zemkes Wolfpack Photographic Odyssey is selling extremely well too.

Life commitments are heavy at the moment to say the least so any time doing research and working on books is extremely limited for the next few months.

It'll give you all time to build those Razorbacks though 😊😊😊
MichaelSatin
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
AEROSCALE
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 3,909 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 06:18 PM UTC
This campaign has been APPROVED! It will run from 1 January through 31 December, 2016 hosted by the extremely capable Damian. To see the rules and sign up, go here.

I've got a 1/32 Trumpeter razorback that I plan to do as Fred Christensen's bird and this just might be the excuse I need!

Michael
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
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Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 8,156 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 07:29 PM UTC
Thanks Michael. I'm glad to see a large scale kit in the mix already!

Ok folks, we are into the next stage of this adventure! Sign up and start posting images and info, proposed builds, comments and suggestions, you know the drill. I'm off to read through Nigel's book (again) to try to decide which pilot and airframe I want to run with. I think I have a few AM decal sets kicking around as well, this isn't going to be an easy choice!

Cheers, D
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
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New York, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:13 AM UTC
Damian,
Last year I ran the Grumman Campaign, and one of my proposed rules was that each person post some sort of build blog/log in the proper forum. I stated my reasons for such as it's never really been done since I joined Aeroscale. 1st and foremost it encourages members to actually do a build blog as most never have. As Mal alluded to it's nearly impossible to follow a build in a popular campaign under the existing post procedures, as you can't start your own thread within the campaign thread. As an example, ARC (my other modeling site) has Group Builds. Each GB thread which I guess is like a mini forum allows you to open your own build thread, so it's easy to follow any members build, and makes it easier for non-GB members to view a build that their interested in without having to create a build blog in a main forum.

PMs went back and forth with the contest moderator, as I stood my ground to make a blog mandatory. Seems that the moderator used his veto powers and changed the wording from mandatory to optional but encouraged. I think that there was 2 or 3 build blogs, one being my 1/48 scale A6-E. Hence, the reasoning for the blogs were lost to both the campaign members and the general membership.

In other campaigns, even as a member, I found it nearly impossible to keep up with current builds, as well as late starters not following prior builds, and when many of the builds were completed that was the last that you heard from that member.

A build blog doesn't have to be every modeling step documented. But a few pictures of the build, ready for primer, painting, decaling, and weathering. Then your completed picture presentation, and a min of two pictures in the campaign gallery.

Personally, my blog was very detailed, but my posts in the campaign thread were more like teasers with the link to my blog. And most of the posts were from non-campaign members who I wouldn't have been able to share my build with if I didn't do one of my usual blogs.

Joel
n_tuma749
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Nebraska, United States
Joined: October 05, 2014
KitMaker: 45 posts
AeroScale: 31 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:22 AM UTC
I'm in with Tamiya's 1/48 P-47 Razorback done up as "Bud" Mahurin's "Spirit of Atlantic City, N.J.". I like this kit because it provides a lot of options which (almost) let you build the aircraft as it looked at any period in time.

Out of the box, you can build "Spirit" as it looked between January 4, 1944 and March 6, 1944, with 16 kill markings (Mahurin scored his 17th and 18th kills on March 8th), the later cowl flaps, paddle blade propeller, and wing pylons.

You'll need to cut the kill marking decal in order to provide the appropriate number of kills for Mahurin based on the time. I don't know exactly how the kill markings were applied, but I have a hypothesis; the white text with Mahurin and crew's name arguably came first, so the very left two kill marks on the top row were applied second, then the first kill mark on the second row (next to the crew chief's name) to make three. The new marks after that then alternated rows top-bottom-top-bottom down the side of the fuselage.

This is how it looked in late November 1943. Loon Models makes a good no-cut conversion to fix the kit's cowl flaps to make them represent the earlier style. The "toothpick" propeller is supplied in the kit. Mahurin's plane apparently had the wheel covers removed quite early.



Unmodified cowl flaps, "toothpick" propeller, and no wing pylons.
11 kill markings also, which dates it to between 26 and 29 November 1943.

In late December 1943/early January 1944, the 56th FG began to receive the new paddle bladed Curtiss Electric propeller, and all its Jugs were so equipped by January 4. (56th FG web site)

This is how she looked sometime in January 1944, with the new prop fitted, as well as wing pylons and later cowl flaps.



In early February 1944 (February 5th to be exact) the 56th reverted back to their old Long Island colors and painted the cowlings red for the 61st FS, yellow for the 62nd FS, and blue for the 63rd FS. The white identification stripes on the tail were deleted about this time. The first mission with colored cowlings was flown on Feb. 6, 1944.

In late March, all three squadrons' cowlings became red, and the squadron color (red, yellow, or blue) was painted on the rudder. The 63rd FS didn't get their blue rudders until summer 1944, however.

When Mahurin was shot down over France on March 27, 1944, "Spirit of Atlantic City, N.J." would have had a blue cowling with no white tail stripes, wing pylons, later cowl flaps, and the paddle blade propeller, along with 19 kill markings.
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:33 AM UTC
Damian,
I just signed on after reading the rules where a build blog of some type will be required.

As for what exact aircraft I'll be building, I have no idea other then it's either or both of Tamiya's 1/48 scale P-47s. I have Air brushed the basic cockpit parts Interior Green months ago of the Razorback, but that's as far as the kit has progressed, so I'm assuming that it's ok.

Now comes the fun of searching for AM decals. Once I settle on a decal sheet(s), I'll know whose aircraft I'll be modeling.

Joel
camogirl
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: October 20, 2005
KitMaker: 1,045 posts
AeroScale: 622 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:35 AM UTC
I'll give this one a go but ....... I will need to go and buy a kit (I think Tomcat may kill me if I rob another one of his from his stash )
Tomcat31
#042
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England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: November 18, 2006
KitMaker: 2,828 posts
AeroScale: 1,720 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 12:55 AM UTC
I'm in and will probably do one of the decal option from Nige's book when get it next month at Telford.

In the interests of keeping the peace I've donated one of my Tamiya Razorbacks and decals sheet for a 56th bird to Sam.
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 8,156 posts
AeroScale: 3,756 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 04:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A build blog doesn't have to be every modeling step documented. But a few pictures of the build, ready for primer, painting, decaling, and weathering. Then your completed picture presentation, and a min of two pictures in the campaign gallery.

Personally, my blog was very detailed, but my posts in the campaign thread were more like teasers with the link to my blog. And most of the posts were from non-campaign members who I wouldn't have been able to share my build with if I didn't do one of my usual blogs.

Joel


Joel, thanks for your input. Those two paragraphs are very important. Folks shouldn't feel intimidated by the thought of running their own build log as there is no requirement for it to include every single step in the process. You can make it as simple or detailed as you wish. The main intent is to provide clear access to each individual build and encourage more comment from other participants and the general community. With regard to your kit, progress already made on interior sub assemblies and paint is perfectly acceptable. As I have stated earlier, I would much rather see these kits on the display shelf than hiding in a box half-baked.

I also really hope to see more research and information sharing like the post from Nicholas, great images and very clear detail on a specific time frame for this aircraft. Thanks so much for getting us started down that path Nicholas. Perhaps we can even come up with some new information for Nigel for his future volumes

Sam and Allen, always great to have the dynamic duo joining in on of my Campaigns. Great to see that domestic harmony is maintained through sharing of the stash, but you will need to start building a roster for allocating bench time!

That is 7 enlisted, a good start to proceedings.

Cheers, D
camogirl
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England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: October 20, 2005
KitMaker: 1,045 posts
AeroScale: 622 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 10:23 AM UTC
No need for a roster we each have our own bench but think a roster for the airbrush, compressor and airbrush bay may be needed
c4willy
#305
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Christchurch, New Zealand
Joined: February 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,673 posts
AeroScale: 1,517 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 10:50 AM UTC
I think I'll go big (or go home) for this one too, probably Trumpy's P-47 but I don't have it in the stash so now it's off to find one .... uh and suitable decals .... and info about exactly who's aircraft I'll build .... from which squadron.... hmmmmm boy am I going to be busy!
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 8,156 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 01:42 PM UTC
Cool another possible thirty-tooth scale build. Have fun on your quest to select a subject 😊
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: December 23, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 - 07:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I think I'll go big (or go home) for this one too, probably Trumpy's P-47 but I don't have it in the stash so now it's off to find one .... uh and suitable decals .... and info about exactly who's aircraft I'll build .... from which squadron.... hmmmmm boy am I going to be busy!


Don't forget that mine and Peters book contains decals for 1:32, as well as 1:48 and 1:72 scale Razorbacks.
Go to www.56thfightergroup.co.uk and click on the cover of the book you wish to purchase.
Peter and I will be at SMW Telford and we'll have copies of both our books on the 56th for sale 😊☀️
AussieReg
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
#007
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: June 09, 2009
KitMaker: 8,156 posts
AeroScale: 3,756 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 15, 2015 - 07:16 PM UTC
Options, options, options.

I took a look through my decal stash and pulled out the 56th FG sets, apologies for the poor quality pics:
SuperScale 48-547


SuperScale 48-997


SuperScale 48-1091


AeroMaster 48-649 and 48-788


And of course the set from Nige's book


Now I really want to do a Razorback, 'cos they just look tougher, and I'm thinking we can't possibly call this Operation complete without Zemke's "MOY TAVARISH" (MY COMRADE). Now comes the dilemma. Both the AeroMaster set and the sheet from Nige's book have markings for his P-47C 16330. I can manage the cowl conversion from my P-47D kit, but I'm not inclined to go the full belly-bulge-to-flat-keel transformation. I might just leave the D belly on it, attach a paper drop tank, and hope Nige doesn't notice and start yelling at me !!!

Then again, I might just do something completely different. I'm getting another glass of red.

Cheers, D
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