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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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1/32 Trumpeter F4F-3 Grumman Wildcat Build
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 07:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I can certainly understand where you're coming from Joel! I myself have never binned a kit (must be the Scots in me I guess). I have shelved a few for a number of months while I mull over the problem. But I keep worrying at the problem till I solve it. I'll be the first to admit that sometimes the solving of the problem is just sheer brute force but I'm finding as I mature as a modeller finesse is starting to set in. (I must be getting frail LOL) And I have the likes of your goodself and this community to offer another set of eyes to look at the problem and perhaps offer me a solution I might not have thought of myself.

Keep up the sterling work buddy I look forward to your taming of this particular kit!


Chris,
I hear ya buddy. As I've matured as a modeler (God only know I can't get much more mature in chronological age )
I tend to take the same path as you. Last year was the 1st year of zero trashed kits. The year before just one, so I'm trending in the right direction. Of course last year I only built two models: each took more then 5 months, so there is something to be said for long builds, and kits that go together rather well.

Oh course the "Gods" have now decided that it's payback time, and the old Trumpy F4F-3 is certainly a handful.

Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 07:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Joel very nice so far.

Joe


Joe,
Thanks so much for stopping by and checking out my build. Glad you like the progress and effort to date.

Joel
KelticKnot
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Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 - 03:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

the semi shine is actually skin oil as I find that it gives the most realistic shine for leather.


Great tip, the headrest certainly does resemble leather !

As far as binning kits goes I've never done it. Probably the younger modelling me put up with all sorts of kit imperfections and shabby painting. Now I only ever have the one model to work on ( that's right : no stash ! ) so it's a case of finish it and move on.
berndm
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Posted: Wednesday, January 04, 2017 - 06:11 PM UTC
Good job with the cockpit, Joel !
IP looks good and the seat got much needed help.

The used green is a good help,i wasn t sure about the right shade. This will be very useful !

Well done so far.

Bernd
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, January 09, 2017 - 11:04 PM UTC
Finally it's time for another update. I've been doing quite a bit of shall we say body work, but not much to show for my efforts till now.

Once the two fuselage halves were glued together using Tamiya Extra thin, I had the usual pock marks from the glue disolving small areas of the surface as I applied it with the brush like everyone does. Not so sure that this is the best way to go about, and just might try Testors Model Master glue in the black pastic container with the hollow metal pin applicator. Thicker then Extra Thin, but thinner then the old tube glue which I grew up with.

So out came the Bondo, and a light coat was needed along the complete seam top and bottom. A day latter I sanded it down and it looks pretty good.





And a overall pic of the fuselage.



Now my attention turned to the wheel well bulkhead. While one side already had the basic filling and sanding.



The worst of the two sides now needed to be dealth with. I 1st filled that huge gap with Milliput, then sanded when dried and cured the following day. Next came the several layers of Bondo. I still have some final sanding and shaping to do, but it's getting there.



Here's how both sides look as viewed head on.



There is a major issue with the bulkhead not coming close to the top of the fuselage leaving a huge gap. Because of where the gap is, it would be very difficult to sand and polish, I decied to fill the fap with Vallejo White Acrylic Putty in small layers. Here's the gap after two layers have been added. also there is the inside of the top fuselage seam to deal with. I'm just a little leary about removing that locating pin. Just not sure if it will effect the glue joint.



Trumpeter has made all the major flying surfaces separate parts, which is great, but they made them movable to the point of sloppyness. The rudder needs to be installed prior to gluing up the fuselage halves. So I tested out their hinge system.







What I found was that the rudder just flopped around at the slight touch, and that it was set a tad to far back I guess to allow all the allowed movement. So I decided to go with steel pins instead. More on that later.

As I said earlier, the wheel well recesses still need work and a 1st priming. At this point I'm pretty confident that I can get them just about perfect.

Joel


rdt1953
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Posted: Monday, January 09, 2017 - 11:34 PM UTC
Joel -

Glad to see your progress. Regarding cement application , have you tried or thought of trying one of the refillable bottle systems with the syringe type tip such as Flex I Files Touch n Flow ? I have not done so myself but I am tempted to give it a try .

Richard
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 - 12:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Joel -

Glad to see your progress. Regarding cement application , have you tried or thought of trying one of the refillable bottle systems with the syringe type tip such as Flex I Files Touch n Flow ? I have not done so myself but I am tempted to give it a try .

Richard


Richard,
Not really. But now that you mention it, I'll have to give it some thought.

While the Extra thin gets down into the joint and melts the plastic, it's the brushing of glue that doesn't get into the joint that causes these issues.

In the old days we used Micro Weld and applied it with a draftsman stylus (just can't remember the actual name), and let it flow along the seam about a inch at a time. I guess I could do the same with the Extra thin, but I would be concerned with the strength of the bond.

Joel
KelticKnot
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Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 - 02:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

While the Extra thin gets down into the joint and melts the plastic, it's the brushing of glue that doesn't get into the joint that causes these issues.


Yep, the touch'n'flow system would prevent that although it took me a good bit of practice to get used to the water-like viscosity. First time I tried their glass tube applicator the "glue" went everywhere Took a lot of the markings off my cutting mat as well as left a lunar landscape of droplet pock marks on the Blackhawk model I was trying it out on.

Anyhow, great work on the gap filling! Quite the masterclass on different products and their uses to take advantage of different properties.
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 - 03:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

While the Extra thin gets down into the joint and melts the plastic, it's the brushing of glue that doesn't get into the joint that causes these issues.


Yep, the touch'n'flow system would prevent that although it took me a good bit of practice to get used to the water-like viscosity. First time I tried their glass tube applicator the "glue" went everywhere Took a lot of the markings off my cutting mat as well as left a lunar landscape of droplet pock marks on the Blackhawk model I was trying it out on.

Anyhow, great work on the gap filling! Quite the masterclass on different products and their uses to take advantage of different properties.


Paul,
Thanks for stopping by and checking out my latest update. I do like you use different methods and products for different putty work. Back in the good old days it was Squadron Green Stuff period. And while it worked very well, getting into a lot of tight spots was a major issue. Not to mention that bottomless gaps gave no support, and the Green stuff either eventually cracked, or just continued to shrink and sink. Today we have a multitude of different type of products as well as using strips of sheet plastic. No sense in not availing yourself to whatever method works the best for the issue at hand.

I'm still more inclined to go with the Testors get type glue as I have concerns about the touch and run method melting enough plastic for a strong bond, especially in areas of stress.

Joel
GazzaS
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Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 - 07:07 AM UTC
Joel,
I'm always glad to see another update. The filled firewall looks much better. I'm trying to imagine what the chains are for.

Gaz
rdt1953
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Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 - 07:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Joel,
I'm always glad to see another update. The filled firewall looks much better. I'm trying to imagine what the chains are for.

Gaz


I think they may be part of the drive train for landing gear retraction / extension?

Richard
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 - 11:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Joel,
I'm always glad to see another update. The filled firewall looks much better. I'm trying to imagine what the chains are for.

Gaz


Gary,
Thanks my friend for stopping by and checking out the F4F-3 build. The wheels have been a major focus from day one, and I've had some very serious concerns about being able to correct the major shape issues, but it looks like I'm slowly getting there.

As for the gears and chains, as Richard said, they are indeed for raising and lowering the landing gear by strictly a mechanical system. simple, yet quite effective. Everything on the F4Fs were simple. And remember that the -3 didn't even have folding wings which took up way to much space on those small carriers.

Joel
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Posted: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 - 03:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Joel,
I'm always glad to see another update. The filled firewall looks much better. I'm trying to imagine what the chains are for.

Gaz


I think they may be part of the drive train for landing gear retraction / extension?

Richard




Correct.
berndm
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Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 01:24 AM UTC
Despite ill fitting parts you are making good progress, Joel.
It beginns to look like a Wildcat.

Bernd
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2017 - 03:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Despite ill fitting parts you are making good progress, Joel.
It beginns to look like a Wildcat.

Bernd


Bernd,
It's about time it started to look like one. Hopefully, I'm over the worst of the part fit issues, and can concentrate on kicking it up a notch or two the rest of the way to the finish line.

Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2017 - 01:17 AM UTC
I've continued to focus on both the wheel well and the wheel well compartment.  1st order of business to to get all the putty work smooth and ready for primer as the final shaping of the wells has been completed. It went from this
 

 
To this with the addition of a primer coat of Mig Ammo Gray Acrylic Primer.




 
I also primed the outside of the wells just to make sure that there are no issues remaining there



I next addressed the top fuselage seam which is a real eye sore when one looks into the compartment from any opening. I did decide to remove the alignment pin and it's housing. The results look more then satisfactory.
 


 At this point I'm more then satisfied with the body corrections and work.  Next I airbrushed the wheel wells and the well compartment with my mix of Tamiya Acrylics to duplicate Grumman Gray:  2  parts XF19 Sea Gray to 1part XF-2 White, thinned 50/50 with Tamiya Yellow cap lacquer thinner. After it dried, I really couldn't tell the difference in colors between my mix and the Mig Ammo primer.
 
  My brother Pete did have some reservations as to just how close I got the wheel wells so that the tires snugged up to a nice fit. Originally, I had the openings way to large and to far out of round. So I reworked both wells with more strips of sheet plastic, Bondo, and CCA glue, I got it this close, which is the best I can do.


 
Next up was engine mount. I surely wasn't prepared for this stage by any means. The mount is comprised of the front ring which in real life is the attachment point for the engine, but not in the kit, as the engine is attached to the engine mounting plate. I started with the upper landing gear strut assembly which is two pieces. The piece that the lower strut assembly is attached to is a very sloppy fit and I'm pretty convinced that I got it a tad to far back.



Then there are 3 parts that represent the tube framing. What surprised me was that each side piece actually shares one mounting hole with the center piece to represent the wield joint to the fire wall. Once you firmly push all 3 parts in place, they instantly correctly align, and it's an extremely solid joint. Here's the completed engine mount.





Next up I test fitted the front engine plate with the twin intercoolers attached. I'm still trying to find a few pictures of the plumbing that I can add for effect.





Then just for the fun of it, I dry fitted the P&W R-1830 Wasp engine.



And one picture of the fuselage with engine.



Thanks for stopping by and checking out my progress.

Joel
 
magnusf
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2017 - 01:23 AM UTC
My verdict on the wheel wells: pass! Without doubt!



Magnus
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2017 - 01:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

My verdict on the wheel wells: pass! Without doubt!



Magnus


Magnus,
Your positive vote is much appreciated, especially when it comes from such a skilled modeler as yourself.
Joel
rdt1953
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2017 - 02:33 AM UTC
Joel-
First class all the way - really shaping up ! Do you think you will ever be able to build straight out of the box again ?

Richard
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2017 - 04:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Joel-
First class all the way - really shaping up ! Do you think you will ever be able to build straight out of the box again ?

Richard


Richard,
Thanks for stopping by. The thumbs up is really appreciated.

As for still being able to build straight OOB,it's kind of depends on what you call OOB. Adding little touches for realism here and there, is still OOB by my standards. I have a few Tamiya and ZOUKEI-MURA 1/32 scale kits that fit that category. can't see any reason to go into those builds with having to do much of anything else.

Joel
GazzaS
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2017 - 03:53 PM UTC
Joel,
It's pretty hard not to be impressed with your work on the front end of the Wildcat. Everything looks very clean and well done. And every time I look at that engine, I can't help but admire it for a bit.

You might have to stick to this scale by popular demand.

Tres bon!

Gaz
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, January 20, 2017 - 07:51 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Joel,
It's pretty hard not to be impressed with your work on the front end of the Wildcat. Everything looks very clean and well done. And every time I look at that engine, I can't help but admire it for a bit.

You might have to stick to this scale by popular demand.

Tres bon!

Gaz


Gary,
Thanks so much for that most generous assessment. The truth be known there is nothing special about the big Wasp, just careful painting and a few lines. As for the up in scale. I loved the F2A-3 Buffalo build from a few years ago, and now the F4F-3 Wildcat. Neither kit was any more expensive then a 1/48 scale kit. But the size makes for better kit details, and easier detailing with bits and pieces. Of course the larger scale is a true blessing for the visually impaired.

Joel

berndm
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Posted: Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 01:29 PM UTC
Good work, Joel !
Looks like a huge step forward and your engine is a real looker.
Thats a lot of work to make this kit shine but its worth the effort.
1:32 is a good scale for WWII fighter aircrafts.
Your engine looks fantastic !
Joel_W
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Posted: Saturday, January 21, 2017 - 08:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Good work, Joel !
Looks like a huge step forward and your engine is a real looker.
Thats a lot of work to make this kit shine but its worth the effort.
1:32 is a good scale for WWII fighter aircrafts.
Your engine looks fantastic !


Brend,
Thanks so much for those more then kind words. So far the engine has been the highlight of the build for sure.

Every time I looked at those super larger then life close ups, the coarseness of the putty work and even the raw primer before polishing, honestly looked horrible. But once lightly polished and photographed a more realistic ratio it looks ok.

I'm convinced that 1/32 is the perfect scale for me for single engine and small twin engine prop aircraft. Even 1st generation jets would be fine with me. Anything larger and it's still 1/48 scale including subjects not molded in 1/32. I'm even looking at 1/72 for the few bombers I might build down the road.

Joel
c4willy
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Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 01:16 PM UTC
Simply outstanding work Joel! Your wheel wells are perfection or as we say down here as close as a pig's rear end is to pork.
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