World War II
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1/32 Trumpeter F4F-3 Grumman Wildcat Build
KelticKnot
Joined: May 11, 2015
KitMaker: 768 posts
AeroScale: 656 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 02:02 PM UTC
Yep, I can only repeat what everyone's already said. The wheel wells came out great and look like they were molded that way in the first place. Should look fantastic with a little paint !
Joel_W
Associate Editor
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 09:07 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Yep, I can only repeat what everyone's already said. The wheel wells came out great and look like they were molded that way in the first place. Should look fantastic with a little paint !
Paul,
Thank you my friend for that. It means quite a lot to me.
Not great but certainly good enough. I've applied my version of Grumman Gray and it does look rather good.
Joel
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 09:09 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Simply outstanding work Joel! Your wheel wells are perfection or as we say down here as close as a pig's rear end is to pork.
Chris,
It' much appreciated, thanks so much.
Great expression, as I'm a big Pork lover.
Joel
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2017 - 11:05 PM UTC
Taking a break from working on the fuselage. Ok to be truthful, I'm avoiding trying to re-scribe all the panel lines and rivets I sanded off for a while at least. So I decided to work on the wings.
Grumman's decided to use what I call a split landing flap, where only the lower half of the wing is actually used as a flap. while the upper half is still part of the wing. Trumpeter with their movable surfaces has done the hard part in duplicating this feature in their wing sections. Here's what the kit upper wing section looks like.
At 1st glance it looks pretty nice, but a closer inspection shows several errors.
The ribs are too short in length as they stop where Trumpeter created a flat gluing surface. Rather the ribs should run to the trailing edge where there is a reinforcing strip that isn't on the kit wing either.
My 1st thought was to buy the Eduard PE flap set and use it. Besides the cost, I prefer to try and modify, detail, or correct kit parts when ever possible, so that's the route I decided to take.
Using .010 x .040 Evergreen strips, I made the trailing edge. Not having the correct size strips to cover those "open boxes" I cut the proper sizes from .020 sheet, then sanded them down some.
Next I had to decide if I wanted to remove the to small ribs or somehow use them. So I tried to cut a series of ribs. Some came out ok, some didn't as each rib is a little longer then the previous one. I then came up with the idea of using .011 x .033 Evergreen strips glued on top and butting up against the trailing edge lip. This also gave the illusion of the top plate on each rib that is missing.
the over all top wing viewed from the bottom looking up, while not being totally accurate, now has a proper look to it.
Net up is the actual flap itself.
Joel
Grumman's decided to use what I call a split landing flap, where only the lower half of the wing is actually used as a flap. while the upper half is still part of the wing. Trumpeter with their movable surfaces has done the hard part in duplicating this feature in their wing sections. Here's what the kit upper wing section looks like.
At 1st glance it looks pretty nice, but a closer inspection shows several errors.
The ribs are too short in length as they stop where Trumpeter created a flat gluing surface. Rather the ribs should run to the trailing edge where there is a reinforcing strip that isn't on the kit wing either.
My 1st thought was to buy the Eduard PE flap set and use it. Besides the cost, I prefer to try and modify, detail, or correct kit parts when ever possible, so that's the route I decided to take.
Using .010 x .040 Evergreen strips, I made the trailing edge. Not having the correct size strips to cover those "open boxes" I cut the proper sizes from .020 sheet, then sanded them down some.
Next I had to decide if I wanted to remove the to small ribs or somehow use them. So I tried to cut a series of ribs. Some came out ok, some didn't as each rib is a little longer then the previous one. I then came up with the idea of using .011 x .033 Evergreen strips glued on top and butting up against the trailing edge lip. This also gave the illusion of the top plate on each rib that is missing.
the over all top wing viewed from the bottom looking up, while not being totally accurate, now has a proper look to it.
Net up is the actual flap itself.
Joel
BlackWidow
Joined: August 09, 2009
KitMaker: 1,732 posts
AeroScale: 1,336 posts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2017 - 01:06 AM UTC
Joel, she's slowly becoming a wild cat and that engine is just fantastic. Too bad, with the cowling around, you won't see much of that great work.
Torsten
Torsten
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2017 - 01:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Joel, she's slowly becoming a wild cat and that engine is just fantastic. Too bad, with the cowling around, you won't see much of that great work.
Torsten
Torsten,
Thank you my friend for stopping by, it's much appreciated.
The cowling will certainly block a good deal of the engine detail, but enough will be seen head on to make the effort worth while.
Joel
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
AeroScale: 1,938 posts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2017 - 07:04 AM UTC
Joel,
You always find some very interesting areas to modify and interesting methods. for me to learn for sure. It already looks much better.
Gaz
You always find some very interesting areas to modify and interesting methods. for me to learn for sure. It already looks much better.
Gaz
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Monday, January 23, 2017 - 10:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Joel,
You always find some very interesting areas to modify and interesting methods. for me to learn for sure. It already looks much better.
Gaz
Gary,
One of the fun aspects of our hobby for me is to try and upgrade or correct errors that I find which will clearly be visible to the viewer looking at my display models. So the outside gets preferential treatment over the cockpit, wells, etc. But I try to keep the upgrades to that, and not major surgery, as most of the time I end up making it worse. I'm not a big fan of PE or resin cockpits, as I rather try using bits and pieces to reach my goals.
Come to think of it, you're the same way, and that's one of the many reasons why I always enjoy following your builds.
Joel
berndm
Joined: March 26, 2014
KitMaker: 844 posts
AeroScale: 630 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 01:05 PM UTC
Good work, Joel and it looks way better !
Corecting and detailing a kit with self made parts shows your great skill.
Replacing kit parts with expensive aftermarket stuff isn t everything in modelling.
Corecting and detailing a kit with self made parts shows your great skill.
Replacing kit parts with expensive aftermarket stuff isn t everything in modelling.
KelticKnot
Joined: May 11, 2015
KitMaker: 768 posts
AeroScale: 656 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 04:30 PM UTC
The flaps are looking good so far Joel, I cant wait to see what you do with the lower section.
I think I'm rapidly coming to that same viewpoint. There are certain things that are very difficult to make yourself but why not try to do as much as you can and in the process learn and improve new skills?
Quoted Text
My 1st thought was to buy the Eduard PE flap set and use it. Besides the cost, I prefer to try and modify, detail, or correct kit parts when ever possible, so that's the route I decided to take.
I think I'm rapidly coming to that same viewpoint. There are certain things that are very difficult to make yourself but why not try to do as much as you can and in the process learn and improve new skills?
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 10:30 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Good work, Joel and it looks way better !
Corecting and detailing a kit with self made parts shows your great skill.
Replacing kit parts with expensive aftermarket stuff isn t everything in modelling.
Brend,
Thanks so much for those most kind words. I don't really know about "great skill" but I do rather enjoy seeing how I can correct those issues myself. I'm not a big fan of buying other people's work and shoe horning it into a kit, but as a last resort, I do go that way.
There are exceptions like Bang seats, seatbelts and harnesses, upgraded wheels and tires, and Decals.
Joel
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 10:43 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The flaps are looking good so far Joel, I cant wait to see what you do with the lower section.Quoted TextMy 1st thought was to buy the Eduard PE flap set and use it. Besides the cost, I prefer to try and modify, detail, or correct kit parts when ever possible, so that's the route I decided to take.
I think I'm rapidly coming to that same viewpoint. There are certain things that are very difficult to make yourself but why not try to do as much as you can and in the process learn and improve new skills?
Paul,
Exactly
I haven't done anything earth shaking but add bits and pieces, and so far I'm quite pleased with the results. Any one can do what I've done.
To be perfectly candid about it, your detailing skills, and ability to see through these type of issues on your Tamiya reissue of their 1:48 scale Lancaster, which to my surprise was originally released in 1975
. took way more skill. Yet, you made it look easy and doable for us hackers. Now that's modeling on the next level. As for the actual flap itself, I'm almost done with the 1st one, and will be posting a few pictures by the weekend for sure.
Joel
goodn8
Joined: October 12, 2008
KitMaker: 709 posts
AeroScale: 651 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 11:17 PM UTC
Joel: Even when I´m not posting or replying much I always enjoy following your builds! They are well thought with great craftsmanship. And improvising things whenever you can is also my way before buying expensive AM parts when it`s not worth the expenses. Flaps look great as well as your progress!
Thanks for sharing,
Thomas
Thanks for sharing,
Thomas
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 11:32 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Joel: Even when I´m not posting or replying much I always enjoy following your builds! They are well thought with great craftsmanship. And improvising things whenever you can is also my way before buying expensive AM parts when it`s not worth the expenses. Flaps look great as well as your progress!
Thanks for sharing,
Thomas
Thomas,
Thanks so much for your more then kind words. As I've said, coming from fellow Aeroscalers mean a great deal to me.
It's great to hear that so many of you take the same position of trying to make the up grades and detailing before buying AM parts.
Joel
KelticKnot
Joined: May 11, 2015
KitMaker: 768 posts
AeroScale: 656 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - 11:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I haven't done anything earth shaking but add bits and pieces, and so far I'm quite pleased with the results. Any one can do what I've done.
You know, that's kinda how I feel about the Lanc !
If you break it all down to individual steps, there was nothing ground-breaking (except perhaps having the nerve to saw the whole fuselage in two ! )
Anyway, enough de-railing of your Wildcat build! I'm looking forward to your pics
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - 01:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI haven't done anything earth shaking but add bits and pieces, and so far I'm quite pleased with the results. Any one can do what I've done.
You know, that's kinda how I feel about the Lanc !
If you break it all down to individual steps, there was nothing ground-breaking (except perhaps having the nerve to saw the whole fuselage in two ! )
Anyway, enough de-railing of your Wildcat build! I'm looking forward to your pics
Paul,
Please post any and all thoughts on our builds you care to. I'm still shaking thinking about you sawing the Lanc in half.
Joel
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2017 - 12:51 AM UTC
After finishing the construction of the upper wing split flap area, I next turned my attention to the actual split flap itself. Like the top wing, Trumpeter molded the flap with a large trailing edge gluing surface, so that the flap ribs are way to short, as they end right at that gluing surface. You'll also notice 5 rather large ejector pin depressions.
I filled each depression with Bondo Glazing and Spot putty. When dry, I sanded and then sealed them with CCA glue.
Next up I cut and glued a trailing edge lip from Evergreen 1x4 plastic strip, and the leading edge stringer from 1x3 plastic strip.
Then using 1x3 plastic strip, I covered and lenghened the top of each rib, which as before also serves as the top stiffening plate that the kit ribs don't have, and then made the center stringer out of individual pieces of 1/3 plastic strip.
I dry fitted the flap to the wing to see how it actually looks. and I was more then pleased with the results.
Then came priming time. I decided that the viewing area will be dark enough to create shadow depth, so I went with MIG AMMO Gray Acrylic primer. I was intending to paint the flap surfaces Green Zinc Chromate, as seems to have been the standard practice at that time. As I looked through my resources and photos I realized that I didn't have a single picture of the flap extended. More Google searches, and a lot of guesses by modelers. Intereior green and GZC were the prevailing colors. I finally tracked down more of Dana Bell's research, and once again there wasn't a definative answer. Grumman had approval to use Grumman Gray as a primer and a color. They seemed to have followed their own painting procedures as with the Cowl and cowl flaps, and paint the inside surfaces of the Flaps Grumman Gray. But the aircraft produced by GM followed the standard Navy color practices, and painted them Yellow Zinc Chromate, not Green Zinc Chromate.
As I stated in my last post, the closest color to Grumman Gray was FS36440 which is also the same shade of Gray as the Mig Ammo primer. So, that's the way I went.
Once the primer has set up, I dry fitted the flap to the upper wing:
And finally a overall image of the back of the entire wing.
Now on to the other wing.
Joel
I filled each depression with Bondo Glazing and Spot putty. When dry, I sanded and then sealed them with CCA glue.
Next up I cut and glued a trailing edge lip from Evergreen 1x4 plastic strip, and the leading edge stringer from 1x3 plastic strip.
Then using 1x3 plastic strip, I covered and lenghened the top of each rib, which as before also serves as the top stiffening plate that the kit ribs don't have, and then made the center stringer out of individual pieces of 1/3 plastic strip.
I dry fitted the flap to the wing to see how it actually looks. and I was more then pleased with the results.
Then came priming time. I decided that the viewing area will be dark enough to create shadow depth, so I went with MIG AMMO Gray Acrylic primer. I was intending to paint the flap surfaces Green Zinc Chromate, as seems to have been the standard practice at that time. As I looked through my resources and photos I realized that I didn't have a single picture of the flap extended. More Google searches, and a lot of guesses by modelers. Intereior green and GZC were the prevailing colors. I finally tracked down more of Dana Bell's research, and once again there wasn't a definative answer. Grumman had approval to use Grumman Gray as a primer and a color. They seemed to have followed their own painting procedures as with the Cowl and cowl flaps, and paint the inside surfaces of the Flaps Grumman Gray. But the aircraft produced by GM followed the standard Navy color practices, and painted them Yellow Zinc Chromate, not Green Zinc Chromate.
As I stated in my last post, the closest color to Grumman Gray was FS36440 which is also the same shade of Gray as the Mig Ammo primer. So, that's the way I went.
Once the primer has set up, I dry fitted the flap to the upper wing:
And finally a overall image of the back of the entire wing.
Now on to the other wing.
Joel
rdt1953
Joined: February 06, 2015
KitMaker: 1,098 posts
AeroScale: 900 posts
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2017 - 03:24 AM UTC
Joel-
Nice job on the flaps - are there any actuators that can be seen ?
Don't want to derail your blog but I really like your GWH Devastator you posted on that new blog - any chance of more pics of that ? Perhaps in a new thread ?
Keep it up - looks great . Richard
Nice job on the flaps - are there any actuators that can be seen ?
Don't want to derail your blog but I really like your GWH Devastator you posted on that new blog - any chance of more pics of that ? Perhaps in a new thread ?
Keep it up - looks great . Richard
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2017 - 03:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Joel-
Nice job on the flaps - are there any actuators that can be seen ?
Don't want to derail your blog but I really like your GWH Devastator you posted on that new blog - any chance of more pics of that ? Perhaps in a new thread ?
Keep it up - looks great . Richard
Richard,
Thank you Sir for stopping by. Glad that you like the progress I'm making. Slow, and I mean slow but somewhat steady progress for sure.
There 4 actuator rods per flap. The kit has the correct number of blisters for them. They have PE hinges so that you can move the flying surfaces around, which I don't like.
I've tested them on both the flap and the rudder, and both seat to far back for proper alignment. So what I'm going to do is use steel pins to mount them through the blisters and into their respective mounting surfaces.
The Flap is only taped into position so I could take a few pictures, and get a visual of them as well.
The GWH TBD-1 Devastator was built a few years ago, and there is a Build thread here for it located @
TBD-1 Devastastor
I never wrote a feature article on the build. Maybe I can do one now.
Joel
thegirl
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 6,743 posts
AeroScale: 6,151 posts
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2017 - 05:25 AM UTC
Nice job on the flap Joel , huge improvement of what Trumpeter came up with .
Terri
Terri
KelticKnot
Joined: May 11, 2015
KitMaker: 768 posts
AeroScale: 656 posts
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2017 - 06:11 AM UTC
Your improvements have really lifted this area of the model Joel. The inner flap detail on the kit seems pretty half hearted for a model of this scale?
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2017 - 06:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Nice job on the flap Joel , huge improvement of what Trumpeter came up with .
Terri
Terri,
Thanks so much for appreciating my efforts. It's pretty hard not to be able to improve on some of these half hearted efforts by Trumpeter. Honestly, they would have been better off leaving the flaps in the up position. As that's where I believe they were when the aircraft was parked based on the dozens of pictures I have.
Joel
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2017 - 06:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Your improvements have really lifted this area of the model Joel. The inner flap detail on the kit seems pretty half hearted for a model of this scale?
Thanks Paul,
I completely agree. As a matter of fact, that's exactly what I just said to Terri. Trumpeter's early kits leave a lot to be desired in terms of fit and accuracy.
Joel
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
AeroScale: 1,938 posts
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2017 - 11:36 AM UTC
Joel,
That's some impressive looking added detail on the wings. A definite bonus in larger scale.
I'm curious: Why the seal of the area with CA? I've used more CA for filling small faults lately, but never considered it as an area sealant.
Continue my education, please.
Gaz
That's some impressive looking added detail on the wings. A definite bonus in larger scale.
I'm curious: Why the seal of the area with CA? I've used more CA for filling small faults lately, but never considered it as an area sealant.
Continue my education, please.
Gaz
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2017 - 07:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Joel,
That's some impressive looking added detail on the wings. A definite bonus in larger scale.
I'm curious: Why the seal of the area with CA? I've used more CA for filling small faults lately, but never considered it as an area sealant.
Continue my education, please.
Gaz
Gary,
Thanks my friend for stopping by and checking out the Wildcat. Glad you approve of my Wing/mods. As for why I now seal all putty work, well it's for a few reasons.
I use CCA thin, nothing thicker for sealing. After you sand, & polish, I use to assume that I did a perfect job and all was fine. But usually there are a few air bubble pockets, I sanding unevenly, I just plain missed a few spots, or there are still some sanding marks. The sealing process will show and fix those issues.
I apply shall we say a medium coat, then when it's dry to the touch, a 2nd coat, and leave it alone for 30 min. The 2nd coat will fill in any remaining issues. Then I sand with 320/600/4,000, followed by ISO to remove the sanding dust. The surface should feel smooth to the touch, and you can see any imperfections if you missed any.
As you can see from the 1st picture to the last picture where I primed, all the putty has blended in perfectly. Before I started to seal all putty work, I always had small issues to redo after priming. At least now I don't have to deal with poor putty work a 2nd time.
Joel
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