[[/quote]
Modern? But they quit making real aircaft in 1918 didn't they?[/quote]
:-)
Thanks, now I´m of that hook.
Lars
Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
The early bird gets the...
Repainted
Joined: April 04, 2006
KitMaker: 1,058 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 11, 2006 - 07:06 PM UTC
Phantom2
Joined: April 18, 2006
KitMaker: 708 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 12:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
[
Modern? But they quit making real aircaft in 1918 didn't they?[/quote]
:-)
Thanks, now I´m of that hook.
Lars[/quote]
No, No, No, You´re not!
I have a little Dragon as a bait for You! (Not "modern" but after 1918 though!)
Just wait.....
Cheers!
Stefan E
Repainted
Joined: April 04, 2006
KitMaker: 1,058 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 - 12:16 AM UTC
Well 
This will be a tuff one. I`m gonna need all the help I can get now,,-Mama
:-) :-) :-)
Promise to send in pics of that one
Lars
This will be a tuff one. I`m gonna need all the help I can get now,,-Mama
:-) :-) :-)
Promise to send in pics of that one
Lars
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 02:07 AM UTC
Greetings all;
Though I have posted these else where I thought you might benefit from this link being posted here. Its a great space for WWI aviation images. Run by Mr. Ron Filan. The images are free to use. Some are good quality others are less than stellar but they are free.
http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive1.htm
Though I have posted these else where I thought you might benefit from this link being posted here. Its a great space for WWI aviation images. Run by Mr. Ron Filan. The images are free to use. Some are good quality others are less than stellar but they are free.
http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive1.htm
betheyn
Senior Editor
#019
Joined: October 14, 2004
KitMaker: 4,560 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 02:27 AM UTC
I'm entering the fray with Eduards 1/48 Hanriot HD.1 (Weekend Edition) kit.
It won't take me a weekend, more like 2 weeks at least :-) .
Andy
It won't take me a weekend, more like 2 weeks at least :-) .
Andy
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 05:25 AM UTC
In the next few days look for some critieria on the contest thread that we will use to judge the entries.
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 25, 2006 - 09:17 AM UTC
In a PM from an Aeroscale member ...
Greeetings
These are the most recently published materials on the subject of the actual aircraft. Anything by Greg VanWyngarden is good.
Jagdgeschwader Nr.II by Greg VanWyngarden, Osprey Pub. Avaition Elite Units 19, 2005.
Pfalz Aircraft of WWI by Jack Herris and Greg VanWyngarden, Flying Machines Press, 2001
Pfalz D.III by R. Rimell, Datafile WWI a/c Part 1, Windsock, Albatros Pub. Ltd. Pp.20-31, 1990.
Pfalz Scout Aces of WWI by Greg VanWyngarden, Osprey Aircraft of the Aces #71, 2006.
On the model kit itself there are several kit reviews at either Hyperscale, internet modeler and Modeling madness. They are free. Mostly done by modelers who know about models in general.
My review is on my website but it costs 10.00 USD to access the down load , 15.00 for the CD with loads of pictures. This involves the basic kit and some aftermarket photoetch and images of original machines and my models.
See: http://www.wwi-n-plastic.com
Send me your e-mail here and I'll send you some text, gratis...no cost.
Also try : TheAerorome.com/forum
The search-engine there is a bit trying at first til you get the hang of it...Agggrrrrrrrevating.
Model On!
Quoted Text
Hi Stephen: Well, I'm about to get underway on my first Eduard WWI plane which may be the one I enter in the competition. If time allows, I'll move on to the next one and see which is a better candidate for the contest.
Right now I'm starting on the Pfalz DIII.a weekend edition. It comes with the decals for Ltn. von Buttlar's plane. I was wondering if you new of a good reference source with pictures (either on the internet, or a book I could purchase). I haven't found too much doing a cursory search under his name.
I don't know that I want to heavily modify the cockpit, but any external errors that could be updated would be within the realm of possibilities for me. As always, I appreciate any direction you may be able to offer. Cheers!
Greeetings
These are the most recently published materials on the subject of the actual aircraft. Anything by Greg VanWyngarden is good.
Jagdgeschwader Nr.II by Greg VanWyngarden, Osprey Pub. Avaition Elite Units 19, 2005.
Pfalz Aircraft of WWI by Jack Herris and Greg VanWyngarden, Flying Machines Press, 2001
Pfalz D.III by R. Rimell, Datafile WWI a/c Part 1, Windsock, Albatros Pub. Ltd. Pp.20-31, 1990.
Pfalz Scout Aces of WWI by Greg VanWyngarden, Osprey Aircraft of the Aces #71, 2006.
On the model kit itself there are several kit reviews at either Hyperscale, internet modeler and Modeling madness. They are free. Mostly done by modelers who know about models in general.
My review is on my website but it costs 10.00 USD to access the down load , 15.00 for the CD with loads of pictures. This involves the basic kit and some aftermarket photoetch and images of original machines and my models.
See: http://www.wwi-n-plastic.com
Send me your e-mail here and I'll send you some text, gratis...no cost.
Also try : TheAerorome.com/forum
The search-engine there is a bit trying at first til you get the hang of it...Agggrrrrrrrevating.
Model On!
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 11:02 PM UTC
Quoted Text
"...1. I will use this thread to answer questions about references.
2. The Con thread will be for you to post your questions about the rules and post your results..."
Greetings all; I am moving a post from the contest thread to this reference thread.
Quoted Text
phantom2 asked ...Hi Stephen! I´m building on the Eduard Albatros D.V Profipack, kit no. 8110. I have decided to do Oblt. Bruno Loerzer´s kite from Jasta 26, Autumn 1918 as I like the black and white striped fuselage. I have a question for you; In the kit you get two propellers (one narrow and one broader), kit parts A15/A9 and two spinners B1/B38 as options.
Nowhere in the instructions are you told which prop/spinner to use for any of the four schemes!
I have not much info about these early aircrafts, so can you please tell me what parts to use for the version I´m building? Cheers!
Greetings phantom2; Scheme D.2299/17 of Jasta 26 mid-late 1917. ( Mis-marked in the instructions as '1918'. ) Another version is also offered with lozenge camouflage suggested for the wings and extended black colouring.
Eduard pulled another minor faux paux by molding the retainer stud for both propellers on the wrong face of the prop boss. The front face should have a convex surface. The rear face is slightly concave. Using Eduard's mounting as is the paddle profile is backwards. Just cut the mounting stud off and add one to the other side. I would go with a brass rod running through the engine core through the prop.
First there is the "Axial" (PP A 9) & next is the Heine (PP A 15) types.
I personally like scratchbuilding my kit propellers from light and dark woods. I have also learned to paint the laminations with convincing effect. Most Albatros fighters were equipped with the light and dark laminated propellers. Carefully check the aircraft profile your modeling to choose the right propeller. Don't limit your choices to the Eduard instructions. The D.V and D.Va both used at least four different propellers from four different companies. Only two types of propellers have been offered with in the kit. The propeller's parent company determined the paddle profile (it was their trademark) while the engine application determined its pitch and length. So different paddle profiles could be seen on either the D.V or the D.Va. But with different pitches because of the different horse power of the installed motor.
Phantom2
Joined: April 18, 2006
KitMaker: 708 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2006 - 01:13 PM UTC
Hi Stephen!
Oops, sorry I posted in the wrong tread!
Thanks for your answer, and the note about the prop!
I´ll have to dig up some more/better references on this kite!
Cheers!
Stefan E
Oops, sorry I posted in the wrong tread!
Thanks for your answer, and the note about the prop!
I´ll have to dig up some more/better references on this kite!
Cheers!
Stefan E
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2006 - 03:01 PM UTC
I know where I can get an image of the aircraft concerned but... it is just a close up of the cockpit area. I check to see if I can find one of the majority of the aircraft.
Lucky13
Joined: June 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,707 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2006 - 03:42 PM UTC
This one?
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2006 - 05:16 PM UTC
Quoted Text
This one?
Thanks Jan...not Loerzer's but it is an Alb.D.V of Jasta 26.
Same aircraft as above. Belongs to Dannhuber?
Albatros D.V from Jasta 26. This is the two toned camouflage version. The prop looks loks a Wollf type.
Loerzer's Crashed Albatros D.III
Lucky13
Joined: June 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,707 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 15, 2006 - 06:39 PM UTC
You know better than me Master Stephen. These are the photos that came up when I Googled for Oblt Bruno Loetzer.... :-) The Albatros and the man in the top photo is Oblt Bruno Loerzer and his Albatros from Jagdgeschwader 26 when he commanded that unit....
The Albatros was his bird but Xavier Dunnhauber flew it too, as far as I understand.
Well, lets keep digging and see what we find......:-) :-)
Here, have another laddie, you NEED to have proper fuel when researching.....
The Albatros was his bird but Xavier Dunnhauber flew it too, as far as I understand.
Well, lets keep digging and see what we find......:-)
:-) Here, have another
laddie, you NEED to have proper fuel when researching..... JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 16, 2006 - 01:21 AM UTC
Often times when a pilot was photographed by an aircraft it did not mean that it was his.
jRatz
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
AeroScale: 151 posts
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2006 - 06:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Often times when a pilot was photographed by an aircraft it did not mean that it was his.
And, not limited to WW1, oft-times aircraft were prettied up for an ace-photo-op and did not reflect what the ace actually flew until the pretty-up. Also pilots flew what was ready, just because one is an ace doesn't mean his a/c doesn't need maintenance, so an ace could fly some non-descript aircraft and maybe some "joe pilot" might fly the "ace-aircraft" one day ...
Why I don't worry about "ace-aircraft" & all that ....
John
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 16, 2006 - 08:43 AM UTC
Greetings JRatz;
How very true. Some units were known to have flown two types of aircraft during the same period of operations. One newer type to familiarize on and the older machines to stay operational. Rotary engine aircraft flew and handled differently than inline engine aircraft. Often during photo sessions a single machine was pulled for everyone to take turns standing infront of.
How very true. Some units were known to have flown two types of aircraft during the same period of operations. One newer type to familiarize on and the older machines to stay operational. Rotary engine aircraft flew and handled differently than inline engine aircraft. Often during photo sessions a single machine was pulled for everyone to take turns standing infront of.
Lucky13
Joined: June 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,707 posts
AeroScale: 1,119 posts
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2006 - 12:05 PM UTC
True O' Enlighted One...... It can be that you associate a certain pilot and plane, like in this case Bruno Loerzer and this Albatros, then when it comes to it, it's three different pilots sharing the same machine. Can it be blamed on those who write the books that we read etc? Maybe it's for me to take my blinkers off? I don't about yous......but I'm NEVER wrong, only less right than the other person..... :-) :-) :-) :-) The next is on me lads.....
is on me lads.....JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 16, 2006 - 10:26 PM UTC
Just start publishing things...egads lucky13...If I had a pint for everytime I was wrong bout sumthin, I have a microbrewery in the basement.
For instance just recently an article of mine was published in C&C Intl. Some how the original comments concerning a U.I and U.III (Gnome license built rotaries) was changed to Ur.I (No such animal) and and a Ur.III (11 cylinder licence built LeRhône.) The article has been out of my hands for about 8 years and it may sound trivial but myths get perpetuated by just such faux pauxs. Edits happen because someone else thinks my original comments might be wrong. Rather than check with me Viola, its changed. You can't get on the current publishers because they may not have been the ones to initiate the change. You just write a errata or addenda comment and go on. I have to take it that I screwed up and try harder next time.
I could probably start a thread on getting your works published with typical medium magazines. Lots of things you would not expect. Bottom line never take any of it personally. Baggage gets heavy and just weighs you down. The best revenge is to live well. Geezzz I talk too much.
For instance just recently an article of mine was published in C&C Intl. Some how the original comments concerning a U.I and U.III (Gnome license built rotaries) was changed to Ur.I (No such animal) and and a Ur.III (11 cylinder licence built LeRhône.) The article has been out of my hands for about 8 years and it may sound trivial but myths get perpetuated by just such faux pauxs. Edits happen because someone else thinks my original comments might be wrong. Rather than check with me Viola, its changed. You can't get on the current publishers because they may not have been the ones to initiate the change. You just write a errata or addenda comment and go on. I have to take it that I screwed up and try harder next time.
I could probably start a thread on getting your works published with typical medium magazines. Lots of things you would not expect. Bottom line never take any of it personally. Baggage gets heavy and just weighs you down. The best revenge is to live well. Geezzz I talk too much.
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2006 - 10:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
True O' Enlighted One...... It can be that you associate a certain pilot and plane, like in this case Bruno Loerzer and this Albatros, then when it comes to it, it's three different pilots sharing the same machine. Can it be blamed on those who write the books that we read etc? Maybe it's for me to take my blinkers off? I don't about yous......but I'm NEVER wrong, only less right than the other person..... :-) :-) :-) :-) The next
One problem that I have is that it doesn't seem likely that a Geschwader Commander would "have to share a machine with anyone." He could pick anyone he wanted. MvR for instance. As Commander of JG.I Rittmeister Manfred von Richthofen did as part of his daily routine take a machine from the ready-line as the need arose. This could be a conference at headquarters or another Jasta affiliated with his fighter wing. If he walked up to a machine on the ready-line and it didn't start, it was the Waffenmeister and the crew of that machine that got their backsides roasted. A complaint from a pilot was thoroughly investigated. If he could not fly his assigned machine somebody was going to stand on the carpet for it.
MvR was known to have taken / signed out a Halberstadt fighter during May 1917 and flown it back home to Schweidnitz landing in a local park that still exists today. The local reserve unit would have had to post a guard on it while he was in town. Just where he signed it out from is not known. He had just previously visited Berlin in an Alb. C.III type as the passenger.
Lucky13
Joined: June 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,707 posts
AeroScale: 1,119 posts
Posted: Monday, October 16, 2006 - 11:22 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Bottom line never take any of it personally. Baggage gets heavy and just weighs you down. The best revenge is to live well. Geezzz I talk too much.
If I'm less right then I'm less right :-) I never take personally, it's not worth it. I suck it up and there's a less chance that I'm less right another time. :-) I'm in this for fun and to learn history that our fathers, grandfathers and great grandfathers created. And can you think of another way that's more fun than to learn and create at the same time? You're more than welcome to give pointers in the right direction anytime Stephen and if I'm wrooooo.....wrrrrroo....wwnnnn.....wwrrrggg.....LESS RIGHT about something please do tell me. I won't take it personally......I might cut your tires on your car or pour sugar in your gastank but I won't take it personally.....that goes for everybody else too.... :-)
I beleive that you're paying the next
son..... JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Monday, October 30, 2006 - 09:38 AM UTC
Greetings all here is a PM from Kitboy to me.
Absolutely yes Nico. The more the merrier !!! You may have to help us find the build Dutch is not one of my best laguages.
Quoted Text
Hello Stephen,
I did some thinking and decided to join the contest. I will do so with Eduard's F2B Bristol Fighter 1/48 (Dutch version) on which I started to work a few weeks ago.
At first I did not mean to enter this contest since I do not consider myself to be one of the top builders, but as we see in Holland "hoe meer zielen hoe meer vreugd". (More souls, more joy). Another reason I had my doubts was I wasn't sure I could finish it before the 30th of november, but it looks like I will make this. The kit is halfway finished now. I believe you do have the thread of the online build on
http://www.modelbrouwers.nl
Should I enlist on the topic?
Greetings, Nico Teunissen
Absolutely yes Nico. The more the merrier !!! You may have to help us find the build Dutch is not one of my best laguages.
Kitboy
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 258 posts
AeroScale: 256 posts
Posted: Monday, October 30, 2006 - 12:57 PM UTC
Here it is:
http://forum.modelbrouwers.nl/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6686
It's an online build on this Dutch website on which a BCC is taking part. Subject is "anything Dutch or Belgian".
So far I only know to pictures of the Dutch F2B. Both of them show no guns for the observer, so my kit won't have them. On the picture on the first page of my thread the front edge of the nose is in it's total diffently coloured (not just the bras edge).... Anyone an idea what colout it could be? What I heard so far, is that the very front of the nose was not made of bras.
Greetings, Nico
P.s. anyone got a clue who invented the name "meatballs" for the Dutch orange roundels? Sounds a bit unrespectfull;-)
http://forum.modelbrouwers.nl/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6686
It's an online build on this Dutch website on which a BCC is taking part. Subject is "anything Dutch or Belgian".
So far I only know to pictures of the Dutch F2B. Both of them show no guns for the observer, so my kit won't have them. On the picture on the first page of my thread the front edge of the nose is in it's total diffently coloured (not just the bras edge).... Anyone an idea what colout it could be? What I heard so far, is that the very front of the nose was not made of bras.
Greetings, Nico
P.s. anyone got a clue who invented the name "meatballs" for the Dutch orange roundels? Sounds a bit unrespectfull;-)
almonkey
Joined: March 23, 2003
KitMaker: 2,124 posts
AeroScale: 788 posts
Posted: Friday, November 03, 2006 - 12:47 PM UTC
hi all! as you know i'm just sitting in on this build, but after aread through of this thread i still have a couple of questions-
Firstly, and most important-is there a thread with build pics up?
Secondly- in the pic of Loerzer's Crashed Albatros D.III, is the light coloured wing tip a repair? and if so was this simply a "re-skinning" of the fabric?
Firstly, and most important-is there a thread with build pics up?
Secondly- in the pic of Loerzer's Crashed Albatros D.III, is the light coloured wing tip a repair? and if so was this simply a "re-skinning" of the fabric?
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Friday, November 03, 2006 - 02:49 PM UTC
Quoted Text
"Here it is...
http://forum.modelbrouwers.nl/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6686
Greetings, Nico...
P.S. anyone got a clue who invented the name "meatballs" for the Dutch orange roundels? Sounds a bit unrespectfull;-)"
Greetings Nico;
"meatballs" is a term used to describe any spherical shape that is a solid colour. You may be aware the cockades or roundels have been symbols of national or regional pricipalities or states for centuries. Their history take us back to a time before even Napolean Bonaparte. These are multicoloured sphreical shapes. In WWI these were adopted for the allied aviation contigency to be readily descernable from the enemy's machines. I won't go into the earliest forms of identification (but I easily could.)
The Dutch national colours are of course the house colour for the last regining monarch. The Japanese "meatball" and the Dutch "meatball" all fall into the same catagory. It was simply an easily descriptive term. No disrespect was intended in its origins.
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Friday, November 03, 2006 - 03:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
hi all! as you know i'm just sitting in on this build, but after aread through of this thread i still have a couple of questions-
Firstly, and most important-is there a thread with build pics up?
Secondly- in the pic of Loerzer's Crashed Albatros D.III, is the light coloured wing tip a repair? and if so was this simply a "re-skinning" of the fabric?
Greetings Phil; Always glad for your input.
1. As mentioned in the rules area, whenever people are ready they can begin posting their images and text. I request we do it under the contest rules post to keep them all together. They can post these at anytime up to the closing date.
2. The pictures of Loerzer's crashed Albatros D.III show that the outer wing panel was replaced. It has been nailed, sewn, doped and varnshed inplace. The area should have been painted and the cross restored but evidently either on a test hop or returning from patrol the landing snagged the wheels or prop and the bird wound up on her nose.
The problem origins of the top wing repair may lay in a problem with the upper wing tips. They had a good deal of over hang and early Albatros D. III ( and some later D.V & Va for some reason.) Did not have an outboard stabilizer cable. This ran from the lower end of the interplane Vee - strut base to the underside of the top wing.
Whatever internal bracings and webing that came later solved most of the problem. But without them the top wing tip tended to flutter especially at lower speeds. Remember the these wings did not have the over hang balances and were termed "unbalanced." It did not happen all of the time maybe it was the use of green woods in some wing skeletals and framing.
You may remember the diorama I did of the desert scheme? During a test hop in Albatros D.Va 5360/17 of Jasta 55F Palestine in 1918, the Ltn. Häfner experienced a low altitude flex of his top wing and was barely able to get back to base. photgraphic evidence says that the outboard rigging cable was not present on this machine. Remember the Alb. D.III and the D.Va had the same rigging for the aileron cables. Alb. D. Va 5360/17 was damaged in the exact same area as Loerzer's earlier Alb. D.III. That top wing tip was shredded.
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