World War II: Germany
Aircraft of Germany in WWII.
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JG-54 Grunherz camouflage?
alpha_tango
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Posted: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 11:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I just caught up with Luftwaffe im Focus No. 9 - the colour pictures of Muetherich's JG 54 Friedrich are fantastic - quite clearly show the two greys of the 'netting' effect on the fuselage.... I'm also surprised at how scruffy the paint is generally and how uneven and rough and ready the fit of the fuselage and cowl panels ...



Yes, i like those pictures too ... I am alreadyl waiting for the new edition --- just ordered U-Boote im Focus too bridge the time until LiF 11 is issued...

cheers

Steffen

Lucky13
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Posted: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 11:31 PM UTC
Just bought this on ebay for £104.99.....
IWATA SMART JET PRO AUTO COMPRESSOR.

Now I only need the airbrush to go..... :-) I'll do my very best to catch up with you fellas!
FalkeEins
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Posted: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 11:40 PM UTC
..speaking as a one-time Badger user who went back to brushes, the equipment is only half the battle unfortunately ..

isn't that a top of the range model ...normally retails for much more than that..
Lucky13
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Posted: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 11:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

..speaking as a one-time Badger user who went back to brushes, the equipment is only half the battle unfortunately ..

isn't that a top of the range model ...normally retails for much more than that..


I think that the retailer price is £249 for those. Speaking some true words there mate.... unfortunately :-) :-)
SGTJKJ
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Posted: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 11:51 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi northern neighbors

BTW do you both resume the old viking tradition to "explore" new territory? or did the flags of your contries change ... BTW2 I am a "Trekroner" (spelling?) too I am from Mecklenburg

best wishes

Steffen



Yeah, I am exploring new territory in the East - Viking style

Regarding the decals in the ICM kit. Could anybody advise how the "new" set of decals are? If they are rubbish I might as well order a techmod set for my 109 F-2 with the kit as well.
SGTJKJ
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Posted: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 11:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

..speaking as a one-time Badger user who went back to brushes, the equipment is only half the battle unfortunately ..

isn't that a top of the range model ...normally retails for much more than that..



Well, I just started on airbrushing some months ago. It is going really well - so far. So good I had to invest another 250 £ for an extra compressor, so I have one both in Denmark and in Latvia. You never know when the urge to paint hits you :-) :-)

BTW I use a custom made compressor from Germany that comes very highly recommended from a score of guys in Denmark that have tried a LOT of different compressors.
FalkeEins
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Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 12:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Yes, i like those pictures too ...



..getting back to this 'net' effect finish, I'm surprised to read that Urbanke considers the Maeanderanstrich on this particular a/c as being sprayed in 70/71 ..!
Lucky13
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Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 12:01 AM UTC
Luckily enough we norsemen are somewhat more civilized nowadays, don't you agree Jesper? Using a airbrush is a first for me. So much to do, so much to learn..... :-)
alpha_tango
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Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 12:19 AM UTC
Well I started ~15 years ago with the cheapest badger (for 19 D-Mark) and "Perri-Air"

It worked ok for larger areas and I had fun ... then I got a real air brush (Badger 250) and later a compressor (which I still use) . then I found the aztek airbrushes and I liked them a lot (because of easy cleaning and change) .. well the problem is the varying precision .. just bought me a new Gabbert Triplex, which I really like

So from my experience I would not recommend to start high end but keep it simple ...

cheers

Steffen
Lucky13
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Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 12:47 AM UTC
Well, I'm for this one Steffen, a Iwata Eclipse HP-CS. Somewhere in the middle of the range I think.
alpha_tango
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Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 01:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

..getting back to this 'net' effect finish, I'm surprised to read that Urbanke considers the Maeanderanstrich on this particular a/c as being sprayed in 70/71 ..!



Sorry Neil, I first missed this post

Look at the pix on pg.23 and 24 you can clearly see (IMO) the wing is 02/71 while the fuselage top is 70/71. the meander is executed in the same colours as the fuselage top .. so I agree with the conclusion of the LiF-Team

What colours do you see?

cheers

Steffen
FalkeEins
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Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 04:55 PM UTC



not wishing to infringe the copyright of the magazine , a small square from a fabulous colour shot of a JG 54 Emil in Luftwaffe in Focus 9

possibly 02 on the wing - but it is worn - and one of these 'threads' might be a green ...or more probably a 74/75 grey .....Prien says grey... Urbanke says green ...actually the distance shot looks 'greener' than this close-up ...
alpha_tango
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Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 05:19 PM UTC
Not im my opinion, Neil.

I have looked very closely at the pic too and the closer you get the more it could be any colour.

the lighter colour in your scan looks violet, but look at the whole picture. Red is a little overexposed (which is typical for German colour photos of that time) so I believe the olive shifted a little towards violett .... the other colour is faaaar too dark to be 74

also look at the timeframe .. unfortunately I cannot remember the date when 74/75/76 was introduced, but I think it was after Mai 1941 when the photos were taken and the crate wears this camo a little longer as you can e.g. see from the faded Balkan campaign band which was applied over the "Mäander" camo...

What do you think?

best wishes

Steffen

Lucky13
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Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 05:48 PM UTC
The question of the introduction of an RLM approved camouflage scheme incorporating the new colours 74 Gray-Green, 75 Gray-Violet and 76 Light Blue (respectively : Graugrun , Grauviolett and Lichtblau ) remains enigmatic. The first Bf 109 F-2s photos show a low contrast camouflage consistent with 74 and 75 colours with a heavy overspray of one or both colours taken down the fuselagesides.By August 15, 1941 Messerschmitt had set forth the new scheme with colours 74/75/76 with fuselage mottle of 02/70/74.



The first photos of the Fw 190 which entered service with JG26 in June 1941 , show the same camouflage pattern but with far less mottling on the fuselage.



The reissue of L.Dv.521/1 and 2 in November 1941 incorporated the new scheme. Upper surface camouflage was 74/75/76 with lower surface 65. The 74/75 combination was confined to the upper part with 76 for fuselage sides grading into 65 coloured lower surfaces.Also all spinners were to be painted in 70 with 1/3 in White 21. But that four colour. scheme was never applied. Messerschmitt had already adopted the 74/75/76 scheme by August 1941 and RLM document HM-Anweisung Nr.7/42 dated May 18, 1942 refers to a simplified colour. scheme for Fw 190 , the colours listed as 74/75/76.

The RLM order of August 15, 1944 withdrew from general use the colours 65 ,70, 71 and 74. and introduced the three new colours as 81 , 82 and 83. Unfortunately the RLM failed to identify the nature of the new colours either in descriptive terms or by colour card standards.Dornier company defined both 81 and 82 as Dark Green. Messerschmitt defined these two colours as Brown-Violet for 81 and Light Green for 82.Examination of genuine samples varied. For colour 81 ranging from Dark Green to Brown-Violet and for colour 82 from Dark Green to Light Green.Color 83 is an enigma.Not a single document can specify its true colour. Generally colour 81 is identified as Brown-Violet , colour 82 as Dark Green and 83 as Light Green.



alpha_tango
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Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 06:05 PM UTC
Thanks Jan!

This supports my thesis that the colour in question cannot be grauviolett (RLM 75), especially as the side camo is field applied ....

Neil it is up to you .. convince me, I am wrong ...

best wishes

Steffen

Lucky13
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Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 06:09 PM UTC
Anytime Steffen, anytime..... Research IS half the fun, isn't it?
:-)
Removed by original poster on 01/05/07 - 02:56:46 (GMT).
Removed by original poster on 01/05/07 - 02:32:47 (GMT).
Lucky13
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Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 07:06 PM UTC
My fault Steffen.....just a wee bit carried away there. :-) :-)
FalkeEins
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Posted: Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 12:16 AM UTC

..Steffen..no convincing necessary ...I'll bow to your interpretation .....on the other hand; ..consider deleting your last post Jan ....full of errors I'm afraid...
alpha_tango
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Posted: Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 12:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text


..Steffen..no convincing necessary ...I'll bow to your interpretation .....on the other hand; ..consider deleting your last post Jan ....full of errors I'm afraid...



Hi Neil

I am always open for a nice discussion ... especially when sharing knowledge and interpretation ... as long there is movement :-) :-) :-)

I would also welcome a delete of the RV band part and i will start by removing my post which surely has a bunch of mistakes too

best wishes

Steffen
Lucky13
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Posted: Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 12:58 AM UTC
No need to gentlemen, already done. Hey, I'm still learning...... :-) :-) :-) :-) Should I at some point be wrong about something, feel absolutely free to slap the back of my head tell me that I'm wrong...... :-) :-) :-) :-)
Lucky13
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Posted: Friday, January 05, 2007 - 02:14 PM UTC
Fellas,

You can buy the ICM Messercshmitt Bf 109F-4 at Hannant's now for £13.99....
alpha_tango
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Posted: Friday, January 05, 2007 - 03:02 PM UTC
Hi Jan

As i already wrote, I would extend this group build to the ICM Bf 109 F-4 too, as the kit should be identical (except for the decals).

BTW I found the Bf 109 F-2 kit yesterday at a shop (which is normally not the cheapest) for 17 Euro

cheers

Steffen
Lucky13
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Posted: Friday, January 05, 2007 - 04:27 PM UTC
Just found interesting decal sheet sheet in my stash, Aeromaster SP48-02 Luftwaffe JG54 Green Hearts. The problem is though that I can't find the 5 page color instructions to it. Does anyone have the email address to Aeromaster so that I can send them an email to ask if they have any copies left? I can't find an email address on their website.
I've also noticed that they have printed the wrong color on the II./54, white instead for yellow. Look for replacements somewhere else maybe?

Cheers fellas!