AeroScale :: Siebel Si204 1/48 MPM

World War II: Germany
Aircraft of Germany in WWII.

Hosted by Rowan Baylis

Siebel Si204 1/48 MPM

TedMamere

Moselle, France
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Posted: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 12:35 AM UTC

Hi all!

Here are some pictures of my current build of MPM's old Siebel Si204 vacuformed kit. I will enter it in the Twin Spinner Campaign.

I didn't found tons of references on the web so I purchased a copy of M. Griehl's book. It will be very usefull as the instructions are rather vague in some places. I also managed to find replacement decals from Tally Ho! (ref. 48025). I will do a captured Siebel in RAF Air Ministry markings...

So far I've cut the vacuform parts using a strong knife. You can also notice the detail parts made from plastic and the two piece vacuform front section. The PE fret is mainly composed of parts for the cockpit...

More to follow soon...

Jean-Luc

guitarlute101

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Posted: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 01:28 AM UTC

Excellent choice Jean-Luc. I've always had an interest in aircraft with a lot of glazing to see inside. I'll be watching your thread with great interest. I know it's going to be great. Post a lot of pictures, please.

Mark

TedMamere

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Posted: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 08:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I've always had an interest in aircraft with a lot of glazing to see inside.

Hi Mark!

I also like the look of aircraft with a lot of glazing. But I fear it will also represent a real challenge in this case. I have some ideas about the way I will tackle this part of the build but I hope the fit of the parts will not be too bad...

Jean-Luc

Merlin

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Posted: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:16 AM UTC

Nice one Jean-Luc!

Good grief! It's shocking, but it's got to be 15 years or more since I built this kit, so your project will be a real trip down memory lane!

I don't remember any particular problems beyond correcting the canopy glazing - the kit had curved panels, but the old Czech reference I had stated flat panes. I'm afraid I don't have any pics of the model - I sold it long before I ever thought of covering such builds for "posterity".

All the best

Rowan

TedMamere

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Posted: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 06:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Good grief! It's shocking, but it's got to be 15 years or more since I built this kit, so your project will be a real trip down memory lane! I don't remember any particular problems beyond correcting the canopy glazing - the kit had curved panels, but the old Czech reference I had stated flat panes. I'm afraid I don't have any pics of the model - I sold it long before I ever thought of covering such builds for "posterity".

Hi Rowan!

And I thought I was the first one to build that kit

I wonder how many Siebels have been completed, probably not very much. And since MPM will release an injected version soon, I'm afraid these vacuform kits will sit on shelves for eternity!

Too bad you don't have any pictures of your model. Do you remember how you did for the engines and the landing gear bays? Nothing is provided in the kit... only empty space! I suppose scratchbuilding is the only option?

Anyway, this is my first vacuform kit and I've already learned something: it's impossible to build a vacuform kit out of the box!

Jean-Luc

TedMamere

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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 04:28 AM UTC

Hi all!

Some more progress to report:
On all the parts I have eliminated the thickness of the plastic sheet with my Dremel tool. There is almost 1mm to get rid of!

I've also assembled the engine nacelles. I replaced the injected exhaust parts of the kit with small pieces of plasticard. A lot of filler was needed to blend everything together. Of course I will have to rescribe some panel lines.

Now I have to ask a favour to the Aeroscale members. The tip of the spinners are not very nice in the kit (see picture below, left parts). I've noticed that a similar, but nicer spinner tip was included in Eduard's Bf 108 kit (right part). I found one in my spare box but I need a second one. Is there someone out there who has the same piece laying around and who don't mind sending it to France? It would be very kind...

More to follow tomorrow...

Jean-Luc

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Posted: Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 10:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Do you remember how you did for the engines and the landing gear bays? Nothing is provided in the kit... only empty space! I suppose scratchbuilding is the only option?

Hi Jean-Luc

I just made blanks with some basic engine faces to avoid an empty look, but your mention of them reminds me that I did quite a lot of work correcting the cross-section of the nacelles - MPM's were wrong, being almost oval at the front, whereas the originals were more "triangular".

I did a bit of work representing the structure of the main gear legs (which was totally hidden unless you turned the model over! LOL!) and faced the inside of the doors (which was worthwhile).

Being a glutton for work in those days, I scratchbuilt interior behind the cockpit with tables, radios etc. and an oxygen-bottle rack - some was visible through the cockpit bulkhead and I opened up one of the fuselage doors.

It's great to see the old kit back in the limelight. I really liked MPM's vacuform series. Apart from the Siebel, I built the Avia B.135 and 534 (the latter was a double-kit) and the Tupovlev SB-2. I've still got a couple of Fw 58s in the stash (one which I made a start on and that was really promising... I should dig it out again one day!), plus a Do 217K.

All the best

Rowan

TedMamere

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Posted: Friday, June 27, 2008 - 08:40 PM UTC

Hi all!

Quoted Text

I don't remember any particular problems beyond correcting the canopy glazing - the kit had curved panels, but the old Czech reference I had stated flat panes.

I know what you mean now Rowan. I've checked the pictures in Griehl's book and I noticed some panel are indeed flat but some are curved. I won't modify the kit's parts though and live with it. Below you can see the model's glazing which I've already masked and the original aircraft glazing. A fellow french modeler pointed me to a nice walkaround of an Aero C-3 which is the czech version of the Siebel 204. Very helpful!

The fit of the transparent parts is very good. I've added locators all around the cockpit opening which will serve as guide when I will glue the parts together. I've also added locators inside for the cockpit assembly...

The side windows have been hollowed using various tools. I first drilles small holes, then used my Dremel and finally finished with files...

Next, I'll show you pictures of the finished cockpit interior.

I ask again, does someone have a spare Eduard Bf 108 spinner tip?

Jean-Luc

Emeritus

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Posted: Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 12:23 AM UTC

And there was I thinking that my Blenheim was a tricky build.

Or at least that looks like one, being a vacuform kit and all.
You're one brave lad, grinding away the sheet thickness from the vac-form parts with a dremel. I think I would gouge the edges right away with a motor tool. Did you mark the edges beforehand to know how much to grind?

How's the surface detail on the vac-form parts? Looks pretty nice judging from those pics you posted, save for those few small raised pebbles. They look easy to fix, though.

Whoa, that cockpit glazing fit well! I hope I could say the same for the Blenheim's clear parts, and they're injection-moulded to boot.
That single injection-moulded sprue looks good from that pic, I have hard time seeing any flash. Any mould misalignment there?

Unfortunately I can't help with the spinner tip. I've heard that the Bf-108 kit is a nice one but I still haven't got myselft one.
That part doesn't look very complicated (no undercuts or such), I think it wouldn't be very hard to make a copy in case you fail to find another.

Hey, we're talking about Eduard's Bf-108... That MPM kit must be 1:48 scale then.

alpha_tango

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Posted: Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 12:45 AM UTC

Hi Jean-Luc

Nice choice... hope you are right on the soon MPM 1/48 injection mold model!!

Nice progress so far!

Quoted Text

I will do a captured Siebel in RAF Air Ministry markings...

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

cheers

Steffen

chukw1

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Posted: Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 04:52 AM UTC

I wish I could help you with that spinner fan- it looks like it was swiped from the top of a barn or something. Wonderful work throughout- the ledger for the canopies is so vital! I've got to add one on my Helldiver- thanks for the reminder! I didn't use on on my He11 and suffered greatly for my error.

TedMamere

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Posted: Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 10:42 PM UTC

Hi all!

Quoted Text

Did you mark the edges beforehand to know how much to grind?

Unfortunately no Eetu...

I must confess I didn't knew it was for that purpose. I always thought it was only to delimitate the parts on the plastic sheet. I've learned something the hard way here.

Quoted Text

How's the surface detail on the vac-form parts? Looks pretty nice judging from those pics you posted, save for those few small raised pebbles. They look easy to fix, though.

Yes, I was also surprised by the surface quality of the kit. Though I don't know what these small dots are good for? But as you've said, they will be easy to eliminate.

Quoted Text

That single injection-moulded sprue looks good from that pic, I have hard time seeing any flash. Any mould misalignment there?

No misalignment but the parts are pretty rough. Early short run quality for sure...

Quoted Text

Hey, we're talking about Eduard's Bf-108... That MPM kit must be 1:48 scale then.

Yes, it's written in the thread's title... ;-)

Quoted Text

Nice choice... hope you are right on the soon MPM 1/48 injection mold model!!

I've read this in Wing Masters not long ago. Hopefully it wasn't an April fool...

Quoted Text

Quoted Text

I will do a captured Siebel in RAF Air Ministry markings...

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I understand your disappointment Steffen. If MPM do release an injection molded Siebel, I'll build it as a French NC 701 Martinet!

Quoted Text

the ledger for the canopies is so vital!

You are quite right Chuck. It seemed an evidence for me to do them.

Here is a picture of the (almost) finished cockpit...

The interior is quite dark (RLM66) but the overall detail is nice thanks to the PE parts and the acetate instrument panels. Some pieces were difficult to get in place, especially the rudder pedals. I had to trim some plastic parts for a proper fit. The levers are PE parts with a blob of white glue. Some consols are missing because they must be positionned on the front glazing.
I replaced the sides of the seats with thin plasticard and added cushions for the pilot's... hum... bottoms. Other additions are the seatbelts from Eduard and the box on the rear bulkhead. Everything else comes from the kit.

I will do the landing gear bays and the wings next...

Jean-Luc

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Posted: Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 12:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Quoted Text

Did you mark the edges beforehand to know how much to grind?

Unfortunately no Eetu... I must confess I didn't knew it was for that purpose. I always thought it
was only to delimitate the parts on the plastic sheet. I've learned something the hard way here.

I haven't built any vac-forms yet, but I've heard some builders like to trace around the parts with a marker pen while they're still on the sheet, then sand them evenly against a flat surface until the markings are gone, indicating that the sheet's thickness is removed.

Quoted Text

Quoted Text

How's the surface detail on the vac-form parts? Looks pretty nice judging from those pics you posted, save for those few small raised pebbles. They look easy to fix, though.

Yes, I was also surprised by the surface quality of the kit. Though I don't know what these small dots are good for? But as you've said, they will be easy to eliminate.

I'd bet that they aren't good for anything, just moulding flaws to be removed. Without having any experience with vac-forms, I'd say they look like they're resulting from pits in the mould. I don't know for sure, though.
Peculiar, they seem to be present mainly on panel line corners and intersections...

Quoted Text

Quoted Text

That single injection-moulded sprue looks good from that pic, I have hard time seeing any flash. Any mould misalignment there?

No misalignment but the parts are pretty rough. Early short run quality for sure...

Consider yourself lucky. I got some major misaligment on my Blenheim's main landing gear parts and I think I'll have to scratch-build new ones.
Btw, do you know if MPM has a habit of sending out replacement parts?

Quoted Text

Quoted Text

Hey, we're talking about Eduard's Bf-108... That MPM kit must be 1:48 scale then.

Yes, it's written in the thread's title... ;-)

Oh, now how could I miss that...

Quoted Text

Here is a picture of the (almost) finished cockpit...

[picture]

The interior is quite dark (RLM66) but the overall detail is nice thanks to the PE parts and the acetate instrument panels. Some pieces were difficult to get in place, especially the rudder pedals. I had to trim some plastic parts for a proper fit. The levers are PE parts with a blob of white glue. Some consols are missing because they must be positionned on the front glazing.
I replaced the sides of the seats with thin plasticard and added cushions for the pilot's... hum... bottoms. Other additions are the seatbelts from Eduard and the box on the rear bulkhead. Everything else comes from the kit.

That cockpit looks very nice. There's only one addition I can think of. The pre-painted seatbelts' color is quite monotonic, a subtle wash would make them look a lot livelier.
I tried it with my current Bf-109 build and it works wonders on them.

alpha_tango

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Posted: Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 01:37 AM UTC

Hi Jean-Luc

Quoted Text

I've read this in Wing Masters not long ago. Hopefully it wasn't an April fool...

Fingers crossed

Quoted Text

I understand your disappointment Steffen. If MPM do release an injection molded Siebel, I'll build it as a French NC 701 Martinet!

We understand each other

.. of course I was just a little disappointed you did not choose some nice "Blindflugschule" markings (with the two yellow fuselage bands and maybe a "Blinde Kuh" emblem)

As a small excurse: "Blinde Kuh" is a children game in Germany. One is blind folded and has to catch another one which then is the "blind cow" --- I guess the flying pupil felt lake that when the windows were covered with curtains

as always: Outstanding work, Captain!!

cheers

Steffen

guitarlute101

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Posted: Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 01:58 AM UTC

Great work, Jean-Luc. Keep posting those pics!!

Mark

TedMamere

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Posted: Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 08:58 PM UTC

Hi Eetu!

Quoted Text

Btw, do you know if MPM has a habit of sending out replacement parts?

I really don't know. I've never used their customer service so far. But since these are limited run parts it's probably more difficult than a mainstream manufacturer. But you should try...

Quoted Text

That cockpit looks very nice. There's only one addition I can think of. The pre-painted seatbelts' color is quite monotonic, a subtle wash would make them look a lot livelier.

Yes, I'll do that. I don't know if you have noticed, but the seatbelts are from two different packages of the same reference and yet the colour is different. Maybe the wash will tone down that as well.

I'll post some more pics later...

Jean-Luc

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Posted: Monday, June 30, 2008 - 12:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Quoted Text

Btw, do you know if MPM has a habit of sending out replacement parts?

I really don't know. I've never used their customer service so far. But since these are limited run parts it's probably more difficult than a mainstream manufacturer. But you should try...

I sent them an email, although I'm not sure if it's gone to the right place. Their website's English version has two email address, one of them bounced my message right back (address not in use), the other one seemed to work. The original czech site lists nine emails to different people in the company and none of them seemed to be related to customer service or such (from what I figured out using an online translator)

Quoted Text

Yes, I'll do that. I don't know if you have noticed, but the seatbelts are from two different packages of the same reference and yet the colour is different. Maybe the wash will tone down that as well.

I think that'll do the trick. I only now noticed the color difference between the seatbelts (thought it was caused by lighting).
I got Russian seatbelts from two different PE sets and they show an even greater difference in color. The first one has an almost orange color, while the second is more beige.

TedMamere

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Posted: Monday, June 30, 2008 - 07:53 AM UTC

Hi all!

Here are pictures of the landing gear bays. I have added some details with evergreen strips and pieces made with a punch and die set. Nothing special but enough to make this area look less empty...

Here is the final result with a coat of RLM02...

That's all for today...

Jean-Luc

TedMamere

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Posted: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 07:31 PM UTC

Hi all!

I worked a little on the wing roots. I have added some reinforcements made of plasticard to strenghten the wing to fuselage junction. I also had to fill gaps at the wing roots (leading edges) because I was too optimistic while sanding the vacuform parts. Note also the addition of plasticard pieces to the side of the engine nacelle mount.

Jean-Luc

guitarlute101

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Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 03:33 PM UTC

Looking Great, Jean-Luc!!

Mark

TedMamere

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Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 10:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Looking Great, Jean-Luc!!

Thanks Mark!

Just a quick note to tell you that there will be no updates in the next couple of weeks...

The reason for this is that I will be away with the family for some vacations...

Happy modelling to all...

Jean-Luc

TedMamere

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Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 - 08:44 AM UTC

Hi all!

I'm back from vacations...

I found some time to work on the Siebel during the two weeks we spent in the south of France, but not as much as I hoped. The weather was too good...

Anyway, I managed to do the clear windows on the fuselage sides. They are made of 1mm thick plastic (same thickness as the white vacu plastic of the kiit) which I have sanded to shape. I didn't used glu to secure them but only transparent tape...