1. Bullets
2. Shedding
To quote LvR. "My triplane became a biplane" Or to quote his crewchief, the left handed Gefrieter "Meine Driedecker ist verbroken"
Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Eduard's Fokker Dr.I
CaptainA
Indiana, United States
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 01:07 PM UTC
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 04:15 PM UTC
On 13 march at about 1030 AM local time Jasta 11 met up with elements of RFC 73 and the combat results follow. JG I was stationed at Avesnes-le-Sec by Cambrai in the 2nd Armee area of operations.
From that noteable historian Greg VanWyngarden (who believes that the top wing upper surface of Fok. Dr.I 454/17 was thinly overpainted yellow.)
". . .In a combat report from Capt. A.H. Orlebar of No. 73 Squadron (in Camel B7282) who on 13 March claimed an Albatros D.V OOC then a Fokker Dr I which 'broke up" SE of Cambrai at 1015 hrs (the RFC wardiary says he 'dived on a Fokker triplane, opening fire at close range. The EA instantly nose-dived, its top plane coming off')? Or is it the report of Capt. H. Claye (observer) and Capt. G.F. Hughes (pilot) of No. 62 Squadron in their Bristol Fighter, who also seem to have claimed Lothar (probably firing at him prior to Orlebar). I don't have their combat report, but the late Douglass Whetton in his book 'Members of the Richthofen Pack, Lothar von R. And Kurt Wolff ', says that 'Hughes and Claye drove one triplane off the tail of a Bristol and then turned to attack a Pfalz D.III, which was on the tail of another. Hughes then climbed and engaged a red nosed triplane into which Claye fired 50 rounds at 50 yards range. With pieces breaking away from the top plane, Lothar dropped below the fight, where he was attacked a second time by a Camel from 73 Squadron.'
Lothar's own account says, 'I attacked my opponent in a dive. Then I heard a loud crash within my machine! It was hit. Only too late I noticed what was wrong. My Fokker triplane suddenly became a biplane (sic). It was a horrible feeling to be minus one wing at 4000 meters. I quickly broke away from my Englishman. He was really quite stupid and did not follow me. Nothing could have been easier than to shoot me down in this condition. With both remaining wings I could still bring it into a normal glide, but only straight ahead, as the rudder no longer functioned. Only in a glide could I keep the machine at the necessary altitude. Before me lay a great open space. I wanted to land there...When I was at 500 meters I suddenly saw before me a high-tension wire. I could no longer go over it and I could not go under it, because two columns of men were moving along both sides of it. Therefore I had to make a turn. But I was too low and it could no longer be done.'
Of course, Lothar's account is highly exaggerated. His triplane had not become a biplane, the top wing suffered leading edge failure and loss of the central wing structure, but the ailerons remained intact, thus giving him some control until he tried to avoid the high tension wires. The general consensus is that the wing failed during Lothar's attack on Claye and Hughes, and then Orlebar fired at him on his way down."
13Mar18 Ltn. Lothar Frhr. von Richthofen is severely WIA at 10.30 hours over Avoingt in Fokker Dr. I 454/17 and to hospital.
13Mar18 Ritt. M. v. Richthofen-65 Sopwith Camel 10.35 Gonnelieu (Jasta 11 victory #231)
#B.5590, 73 Sqn. RFC, 2/Lt. J.M.L. Millett, KIA.
13Mar18 Vzfw. Scholtz-3 Sopwith Camel 10.40 Vaucelles (Jasta 11 victory #232)
#B.2523, 73 Sqn. RFC, Lt. E.E. Heath, POW.
Here is an interesting thread on streaking techniques.
Click Here.
From that noteable historian Greg VanWyngarden (who believes that the top wing upper surface of Fok. Dr.I 454/17 was thinly overpainted yellow.)
". . .In a combat report from Capt. A.H. Orlebar of No. 73 Squadron (in Camel B7282) who on 13 March claimed an Albatros D.V OOC then a Fokker Dr I which 'broke up" SE of Cambrai at 1015 hrs (the RFC wardiary says he 'dived on a Fokker triplane, opening fire at close range. The EA instantly nose-dived, its top plane coming off')? Or is it the report of Capt. H. Claye (observer) and Capt. G.F. Hughes (pilot) of No. 62 Squadron in their Bristol Fighter, who also seem to have claimed Lothar (probably firing at him prior to Orlebar). I don't have their combat report, but the late Douglass Whetton in his book 'Members of the Richthofen Pack, Lothar von R. And Kurt Wolff ', says that 'Hughes and Claye drove one triplane off the tail of a Bristol and then turned to attack a Pfalz D.III, which was on the tail of another. Hughes then climbed and engaged a red nosed triplane into which Claye fired 50 rounds at 50 yards range. With pieces breaking away from the top plane, Lothar dropped below the fight, where he was attacked a second time by a Camel from 73 Squadron.'
Lothar's own account says, 'I attacked my opponent in a dive. Then I heard a loud crash within my machine! It was hit. Only too late I noticed what was wrong. My Fokker triplane suddenly became a biplane (sic). It was a horrible feeling to be minus one wing at 4000 meters. I quickly broke away from my Englishman. He was really quite stupid and did not follow me. Nothing could have been easier than to shoot me down in this condition. With both remaining wings I could still bring it into a normal glide, but only straight ahead, as the rudder no longer functioned. Only in a glide could I keep the machine at the necessary altitude. Before me lay a great open space. I wanted to land there...When I was at 500 meters I suddenly saw before me a high-tension wire. I could no longer go over it and I could not go under it, because two columns of men were moving along both sides of it. Therefore I had to make a turn. But I was too low and it could no longer be done.'
Of course, Lothar's account is highly exaggerated. His triplane had not become a biplane, the top wing suffered leading edge failure and loss of the central wing structure, but the ailerons remained intact, thus giving him some control until he tried to avoid the high tension wires. The general consensus is that the wing failed during Lothar's attack on Claye and Hughes, and then Orlebar fired at him on his way down."
13Mar18 Ltn. Lothar Frhr. von Richthofen is severely WIA at 10.30 hours over Avoingt in Fokker Dr. I 454/17 and to hospital.
13Mar18 Ritt. M. v. Richthofen-65 Sopwith Camel 10.35 Gonnelieu (Jasta 11 victory #231)
#B.5590, 73 Sqn. RFC, 2/Lt. J.M.L. Millett, KIA.
13Mar18 Vzfw. Scholtz-3 Sopwith Camel 10.40 Vaucelles (Jasta 11 victory #232)
#B.2523, 73 Sqn. RFC, Lt. E.E. Heath, POW.
Here is an interesting thread on streaking techniques.
Click Here.
Dwaynewilly
New York, United States
Joined: December 15, 2006
KitMaker: 365 posts
AeroScale: 344 posts
Joined: December 15, 2006
KitMaker: 365 posts
AeroScale: 344 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 12:23 AM UTC
Rowan,
This is one build I was looking so forward to seeing completed. Have you been able or do you intend to revisit project? It was really looking great. Hope you decide to restart this one.
Cheers, Dwayne
This is one build I was looking so forward to seeing completed. Have you been able or do you intend to revisit project? It was really looking great. Hope you decide to restart this one.
Cheers, Dwayne
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 04:34 PM UTC
Now I wonder why TVAL has Lothar's 454/17 replica with a Gruppen Furher's chevron?