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Aircraft Trivia Quiz 2 (Join In)
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, June 08, 2019 - 03:33 PM UTC

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OK a little bit quirky but :

When, where and whom by was the most recent US Navy UFO sighting that has been made public ?




Summer of 2014 to March 2015, they were seen and filmed off the East Coast of the US, near the USS Theodore Roosevelt, almost on a daily basis by F-18 pilots flying to a height of 30000ft, and doing maneuvers which would be impossible for humans to survive. Personally I think they were a glitch in the F-18s HUD system, but they do have it on film-- and inquiring minds want to know-- the "truth is out there"!!
VR, Russ



Yep correct.
However they are certainly not HUD glitches.
If you want a highly detailed account of a previous sighting check out The Fighter Pilot Podcast on YouTube.



Well I was trying to inject some humor with the "HUD" thing. I saw the videos several weeks ago.
VR, Russ
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, June 08, 2019 - 03:43 PM UTC
So I guess the "ball is in my court" then. So in keeping with aviation trivia that maybe would be better served over on the "Model Geek" site, I have one that should be easy, but in two parts:

1) This accomplished fighter pilot flew both an F86 and an F4D, the first in the Korean War, the second in a record breaking flight. Name the flyer and the record he achieved.

2) As an Astronaut, he saw something unexplained, at first, but was later explained---what was it he saw, how did he describe it, and what was the explanation given.

VR, Russ
Magpie
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Posted: Saturday, June 08, 2019 - 04:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text

So I guess the "ball is in my court" then. So in keeping with aviation trivia that maybe would be better served over on the "Model Geek" site, I have one that should be easy, but in two parts:

1) This accomplished fighter pilot flew both an F86 and an F4D, the first in the Korean War, the second in a record breaking flight. Name the flyer and the record he achieved.

2) As an Astronaut, he saw something unexplained, at first, but was later explained---what was it he saw, how did he describe it, and what was the explanation given.

VR, Russ



1) John Glenn and he set a transcontinental speed record.
2) He saw a cloud a bright luminescent particles flowing about the capsule.
"I am in a big mass of some very small particles, they're brilliantly lit up like they're luminescent. I never saw anything like it. They round a little: they're coming by the capsule and they look like little stars. A whole shower of them coming by. They swirl around the capsule and go in front of the window and they're all brilliantly lighted."

which were later thought to have been ice from onboard systems.


As I really don't care for your sarcastic manner I will not be taking up the mantle of posing any further questions.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 03:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

So I guess the "ball is in my court" then. So in keeping with aviation trivia that maybe would be better served over on the "Model Geek" site, I have one that should be easy, but in two parts:

1) This accomplished fighter pilot flew both an F86 and an F4D, the first in the Korean War, the second in a record breaking flight. Name the flyer and the record he achieved.

2) As an Astronaut, he saw something unexplained, at first, but was later explained---what was it he saw, how did he describe it, and what was the explanation given.

VR, Russ



1) John Glenn and he set a transcontinental speed record.
2) He saw a cloud a bright luminescent particles flowing about the capsule.
"I am in a big mass of some very small particles, they're brilliantly lit up like they're luminescent. I never saw anything like it. They round a little: they're coming by the capsule and they look like little stars. A whole shower of them coming by. They swirl around the capsule and go in front of the window and they're all brilliantly lighted."

which were later thought to have been ice from onboard systems.


As I really don't care for your sarcastic manner I will not be taking up the mantle of posing any further questions.



Scott
Your answer is correct. The particles where later determined to be frost particles that had come from the capsule itself. It was not my intent to be sarcastic, only to inject some humor in the topic, please forgive me. My reference to "The Model Geek" site is a direct reference to Kitmaker Network's "real space" modeling website which is called "The Model Geek--Dare to Think Small". You should check it out if you are interested in real space subjects (and there's a lot of "science fiction" too). They are currently running a campaign on the history of manned space flight (Man on the Moon 50). It's a shame you won't be posting, and I'm truly sorry for that. Please do not punish others for my un-intended slight. So I guess at this point the next question is up for grabs to anyone who cares to come up with a question.
Very Respectfully,
Russ
gastec
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Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 09:49 AM UTC
A US Navy plane shot down one of ts own aircraft deliberately. What aircraft fired the shot, what did it shoot down and why.
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 05:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

A US Navy plane shot down one of ts own aircraft deliberately. What aircraft fired the shot, what did it shoot down and why.



The story I know involves not USN but USAAF aircraft: on the 10 February 1945 a P-51 piloted by Lt. Edward Crudes shot down a US C-47 to prevent it from landing on a still Japanese controlled airstrip on the island of Batan.
gastec
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Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 07:07 PM UTC
Not that one. This was UN Navy jet doing the shooting...
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 07:36 PM UTC
Then perhaps an F-18 shooting down E-2C that was abandoned due to fire on board but kept on flying over the Mediterranean Sea?


gastec
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Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 08:41 PM UTC
That's the one. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/amp22106999/navy-shot-down-plane-on-purpose/
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Sunday, June 09, 2019 - 09:17 PM UTC
The radar of certain Soviet cold-war era jets was extremely popular among maintenance crews - why?

RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - 04:39 AM UTC

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The radar of certain Soviet cold-war era jets was extremely popular among maintenance crews - why?




"Viktor Belenko. And yes most airplanes in USSR used alcohol for cooling for the reasons mentioned.

-Very effective
-Minimal space used by system.
-Minimal weight.
-Low toxicity. (coolant used by western countries is VERY toxic)
-Minimal handling procedures with no special training.
-cheap and easy to produce.

Cons
-Have to be replenished after each flight.
-Additional facilities needed for storage.
-Additional equipment required by maintenance personal.
-Cooling liquid was consumed by base personal as a virtually free alcoholic beverage replacement. "

and

"As a matter of fact, the alcohol used for cooling purposes was of a better quality than most vodka consumed. It was perfectly safe to drink. A nikcname for the Mig-25, for example, was "the flying bar" because of the very large quantities of the stuff it could carry due to its size. Which is why the Mig-21 has a fairly limited usable amount of time for the radar: small aircraft, less space for storage of equipment liquids etc. But what we were told back in the 80's is that the USSR, Which was using intercept tactics based on the GCI model, would scramble a flight of interceptors, they would be guided manually or automatically in the vicinity of the target, and only then the pilots would turn their radar on, lock a missile and destroy the target. That would minimize or eliminate the chance of being detected by the target before they could get into a good firing position. Based on that, there was no need to develop a long distance radar and it would be used for fairly short amount of time. "

"There will be a vent on both closed or open system. On the closed system, it's an over pressure safety device. On the open system it's necessary in order to produce the amount of evaporation needed for heat transfer. Alcohol is way more efficient in transferring heat than water, because it evaporates faster and have a lower boiling point. The con of such a system is gradual loss of alcohol as you use it. But very simple, efficient,cheap, trouble free and if having to refill it after each flight doesn't create undue logistical problems, then sure, a good idea.
In a nut shell, alcohol is routed (pumped) around the radar array with tubes. The alcohol being cooler than the radar, the heat will transfer to the liquid. The liquid will keep going til it gets to an expansion chamber, if it were. Evaporation will occur and heat will be dissipated as it is vented out in the atmosphere by it's own pressure create as a byproduct. Very simple system, a fraction of the parts (and cost) needed compare to closed circuit. You can also see an advantage in weight and space saving here.

You could always tell that Russian designers were very practical and ingenious and had to work within constraining limitations. The ruling parties were forever demanding better design but with a fraction of the money that would be available to western countries. They wanted maintenance to be idiot proof so as to shorten training time and enlarge the pool of potential candidates for technical schools. They wanted super reliable airplanes to minimize downtime between flights. On top of that, their aircrafts had to be able to operate at temperatures ranging between -60 to plus 60 Celsius. And lets not forget crappy unprepared landing strips as a requirement in case it becomes necessary to deploy some jets in remote areas. All in all, i think these guys did (and are doing) pretty good. "

Free booze always popular in Russia
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - 06:05 AM UTC
Full answer, over to you Robin. I see you too were drawn to the Dark Side...
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 - 08:19 AM UTC
OK, here goes.
Which type of aircraft belonging to which airforce was involved in an encounter over the sea with a Soviet interceptor where the soviet pilot misjudged the situation and flew his aircraft into the sea?

/ Robin

Edit: I will post some further information in a few days if nobody comes up with the correct answer before then.

Hint 1: Both were jet aircraft

Hint 2: The Soviet interceptor was an SU-15
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - 07:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

OK, here goes.
Which type of aircraft belonging to which airforce was involved in an encounter over the sea with a Soviet interceptor where the soviet pilot misjudged the situation and flew his aircraft into the sea?

/ Robin

Edit: I will post some further information in a few days if nobody comes up with the correct answer before then.

Hint 1: Both were jet aircraft

Hint 2: The Soviet interceptor was an SU-15



Hint 3: The tail number of the SU-15 was yellow 36.
gastec
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Posted: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - 11:04 AM UTC
SU15 in question chased a SH 37 Viggen, (red M from F 13 Norrköping, Sweden) on photo reconnaissance (a naval exercise). The Viggen made a "half-roll" 500m over the ocean. The Su-15 followed but crashed into the sea.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - 06:30 PM UTC
Ahh!!
Finally!
Thank you!
Now it is your turn to come up with a question
/ Robin
gastec
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Posted: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 - 07:41 PM UTC
Pretty easy one I think. What was special about Vampires of No. 54 Squadron?
Jessie_C
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 03:18 AM UTC
First jet aircraft to cross the Atlantic ocean.
gastec
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 05:31 AM UTC
Yep. Over to you....
Jessie_C
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 - 10:54 AM UTC
This one should also be easy. Which aircraft is loved by back seat drivers?
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 05:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The Viggen made a "half-roll" 500m over the ocean.



You mean a split S?

Jessie_C
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 06:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text


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The Viggen made a "half-roll" 500m over the ocean.



You mean a split S?




A Split S is impossible for a Viggen at 500 ft. He probably just rolled inverted and the Soviet pilot lost the plot.

Now back to my question. This particular aircraft was instrumental {cough} in the development of EFIS.
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 07:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A Split S is impossible for a Viggen at 500 ft.



He said the maneuver was initiated at 500 m (ca. 1.600 ft) not 500 ft but that still sounds marginal at best, even for the Viggen.
In some places they refer to a 'split-S' as 'half-roll' which makes the identification of the maneuver performed difficult.


Quoted Text

He probably just rolled inverted and the Soviet pilot lost the plot.



I don't think so. According to the article below, 'Larsson finally executed an extremely tight half-roll at around 400 miles per hour while only 500 meters above the Baltic. The agile Viggen fighter is famous for its canards—a second small pair of wings alongside the nose—which grant it superb maneuverability. The Su-15, by contrast, was clumsy at low-altitude. Larsson’s Viggen managed to pull out of the roll just 100 meters over the water.'

Needles to say, you don't 'pull out of the roll' and loose 400 m, unless the 'roll' you refer to is a 'split-s'.
If the maneuver wasn't a 'split-s', then another possibility is that Viggen pilot executed a half-roll (turned the plane inverted) but did not pull through to vertical; instead he entered a steep dive still inverted and executed another half-roll at around 100 m. In this case it's plausible that a SU-15 could not follow through and stalled.

If Larsson DID initiate a 'split-s' at 1.600 ft ASL, then oh boy...that says a lot about the size of the balls of the Swedish pilot and the performance of the Viggen. I wonder what the hell the Soviet pilot was thinking when decided to follow him through. I guess he failed to check his altitude before entering the maneuver and that costed him his life...

https://warisboring.com/a-soviet-fighter-planes-tragic-error-brought-us-google-maps/
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 08:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This particular aircraft was instrumental {cough} in the development of EFIS.



The Hawker Hunter?

RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 10:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The Viggen made a "half-roll" 500m over the ocean.



You mean a split S?




A Split S is impossible for a Viggen at 500 ft. He probably just rolled inverted and the Soviet pilot lost the plot.



Swedish pilot-lingo commonly uses the word "halvroll" instead of Split-S. The Soviet pilot could have misjudged the situation based on the assumption that the Viggen could not perform this kind of maneuver at such a low altitude so he may have thought "If he can do I can do it too" so he followed along and then he died.

A Split-S is indeed impossible for a Viggen at 500 feet but now we are talking meters and 500 meters is 1640 feet
pdf in Swedish about the incident:
https://www.flygtorget.se/illustrationer/fil_20110110093819.pdf

translation (with some minor mistakes) by Mattebubben
found at https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2601647
"DEADLY DRAMA ABOVE THE BALTIC SEA.

In the Summer of 1985 a soviet Su-15 crashed in international waters of the coast of Liepāja in Latvia.

Now 25 years after the tragic incident, Viggen Pilot Göran Larsson is able to tell what really happend that day.



The Pictures where taken with Larssons own handheld camera and where taken when one of the Su-15s linked up with him during the first encounter (of the day)

And it shows a SU-15TM with the code Yellow 36.

(now onto the main text in the article)

The Cold war had moments when things became hot.

The incidents along the borders between the East and the West were many and included plenty of incidents over the baltic sea,

The strip of water that in communist propaganda was known as The sea of peace.

For the Alliance free Sweden, With its location right between the two it was natural to have a strong presence
(in the baltic) both to guard its neutrality and to gather information.


On sunday the 7th of July 1985 Millitary command South sent an order to the Standby Reconnaissance division (Martin Red)

Stationed at the F-13 base at Bråvalla just off the town of Norrköping.

Naval Units of the Warzaw Pact where conducting an exercise in the Southeastern part of the baltic sea and the First Division of F-13
was given the mission to keep an eye on the fleet. (First Divison at the F-13 "Fighter wing" was Reconnaissance and was nicknamed Martin Red and the Second Division was made out of Fighters and was called Martin Blue)

This type of mission was for its time a relatively common affair.

But this mission was fated to be one of the more Dramatic ones.

Martin Red 03 (third aircraft of the red division) was a SH-37 that is the Ocean Reconnaissance / Strike Variant of the Viggen.

The Aircraft Took of from the main base with Captain Göran Larsson as Pilot.

After about 35 Minutes of flight Larsson came in contact with the Ships of the exercise just short distance outside Soviet Territorial Waters.

(Sections made out of Quotes From the Pilot starts and ends with - )

-The Russian met me instantly.
A Pair of Su-15TMs (Nato Code Flagon F) made up the welcoming party.

I Focused on identifying the northern section of ships.

It was spread out with a few kilometers between the different units (ships).

So there was a bit of turning.

One of the russian stayed with me while the other stayed back slightly (Larsson reports)-

Meetings with foreign aircraft above the Baltic sea were not uncommon.

But to have them following closley for a prolonged period while at the same time trying to gather information and photograph as a part of the
Reconnaissance mission could be both strenuous and and annoying.

Larrson made a number of manuvers but the russian showed no tendency to want to leave the swedes wingtip.

Larsson got out his handheld camera and photographed his companion, A Flagon F with the Id marking Yellow 36.


The Warsaw Pact exercise contained a large number of ships spread over a large area.

To Document them all on a single slight proved hard,
so Larsson decided to split the task into two flights.

He returned to the homebase to refuel.

Turnaround went quickley and effectivley.

Larssons second Reconnaissance flight started late on the afternoon.

The Aircraft was still "Martin Red 03", and was unarmed and equipped with a Reconnaissance camera on the right belly pylon. (Cheek/belly pylon)

-The second flight started silent since he wanted to avoid having company.

Those on the other side listend to our radio traffic and could through that calculate when we took off.

After reaching the ocean i got down to 150m.

I had neither Radar or Radio transmitting.

I crossed Gotland in line with Slite (town on the northeastern coast of Gotland)

and just outside swedish territorial waters i turned to a direct easterly heading.-

The Flightpath then followed Latvias and Lithuanias coats towards south and southwest.

From Groundcontrol Larsson was once again notified that Russian fighters again had started from Vaiņode in Latvia.

Just before 1800 Göran Larsson made a Radar run on the naval base at Liepāja (using his Radar to map the port and ships).

After that he Turned North to finish the documentation of the ships in that section.

Radio Communication with ground controll was impossible due to the low altitude and long distance.

It was therefore routine to have Swedish fighters at high altitude close to Gotland.


They acted as Relay stations / overwatch and could act as backup if needed for missions like these.

And thats where the warning came from: "Fighters Northeast, distance 50 kilometers".

About 3 minutes later the soviet interceptors arrived.

The 54th Fighter Regiment used the same two Su-15s that had been used to watch him earlier that day, but this time their roles where changed.

-It was the nr.2 that came up and joined me this time.

We spun around some but then i needed som space to work.

I thought he should give up and that this dancing would have to end-.

To understand what then took place its time for a short presentation of the actors.

The Viggen was for this period a potent and manuverable combat aircraft.

And the Ocean Reconnaissance SH 37 variant was perfect for a mission like this.

And here the plane was also in the hands of a skilled and experienced pilot.

Larsson knew his aircraft well and how he far he could push it.

Thats the key to success when it comes to pushing man and machine to the limit.


The Su-15 Flagon F was a Twin engine interceptor mainly designed for high altitude interception of bombers flying at high altitude.

The Flagon was still dangerous in other situations but its preformance was in no way optimised for low altitude dogfights.

From encounters with Su-15s above the baltic the swedish airforce observed that the Flagon F normally carried full weapon loads made out of 2 radar guided and 2 ir guided missiles
and sometimes including a cannon gunpod on the belly pylon.

Larsson told of a large amount of turning on low altitude loops and barrel rolls.

And at all time the russian pilot remained in open formation about 50m away.

Finally the swede decided to get rid of his stubborn follower.

- I started a Split S maneuver at about 500 meters of altitude.

The speed was between 550-700 km/h and the G-load was high-

When Larsson completed the maneuver and leveled out at about 100meters altidue ha saw in his mirrors how the russian pilot instead of
realising his airplanes limitations surprisingly attempted to follow him in the split S manuver.

Unable to save his aircraft he continued towards the ocean surface.

-I saw him coming with the nose high and falling with wind vortices coming from his wings.

He hit the water about 200 meters behind me.

I could not see a parachute or ejection.

The water plume was followed by an explosion and a massive fireball.

the four live missiles likely enhanced the effect.

The Tragedy was a fact.-

Larsson quickly decided to abort the mission and to get back to base as quickly as possible.

He turned northwest and started accelerating as quickly as possible and reported the situation to ground controll.

-When i turned towards Gotland i saw the other Su-15 at about 5 kilomiters away.

He was turning towards me.

I activated the afterburner and accelerated to mach 1.1 or about 1 350km/h.

I tried to stay at 50 meters but it became harder and harder as the aircraft started to buffet at speeds above mach 1 at this low altitude.

When my RWR reported that the russian had locked me up i turned off the afterburner and tried to turn to see behind me but i was unable to due to the high speed-

The swedish fighter pair that had acted as radio relay above Gotland turned southeast to assist their colleague and to make their presence known.

The russian pilot abandoned the chase after a minute or two and returned to the scene of the accident.

Its not hard to understand Larssons worry over the results of his involvement to this incident.

Even during the return to the homebase he was thinking of how to formulate the report of the incident.

It was important to not be to generous when it came to details on how everything happend. (dont understand that line but did my best in translating it =P )

He started by writing a report that was routine for observations of foreign aircraft.

personnel from the millitary section of the intelligence service then interviewed him about the incident.

He was also called to the Cheif for the southern flight command (head of the airforce units stationed in southern sweden)
to report the chain of events.

Even if some manuvering was not out of the ordinary when it came to encounters with foreign combat aircraft the directives was that it should be avoided if possible.


So in order to not give away the character of the advanced flying that had preceded the incident a more "neutral" version of the incident was
chosen for the public reports/interviews.

When Larsson was called to the commander before the interviews he was told we are just gonna say what we came here to say we dont want a circus out there.


After the incident the Radar stations reported that the remaining Su-15 had stayed in the area of the crash
for about 40 minutes before returning to base at vainode.

Search and rescue from both the naval and airforces of the warsawpact nations in the area conducted a search of the area during that evening and the following 2 days.

During the following week soviet aircraft at several times sent up aircraft to intercept foreign aircraft (both nato and swedish aircraft)
but at no time did they go into close contact and it seemed like they deliberately stayed at a distance of about 30km.

It allso appears that it was not untill the 12th of July (5 days later) that Su-15s resumed normal interception mission again after the incident.

The accident was noted by swedish media.

The then commander of the swedish airforce General Sven-Olof Olson said sweden could only commiserate (think thats the right word) what had occured.

Other then that there was no contact between sweden and soviet about the incident.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is the translation.

Are also a few pictures in the PDF both photos taken from the cockpit by the pilot of the Viggen aswell as some other pictures / charts.

I think the Translation came out ok but boy is it more difficult and takes longer then one might expect xD.

Please point out mistakes in the translation and misspelling so it can be corrected. "