Hi all

Jung wrote about synchronicty "When coincidences pile up... one cannot help being impressed by them", so I was really struck last week when no less than three unrelated messages came out of the blue, all on the same subject...

First, I received an e-mail from one of our members concerned about the lack of feedback these days in the forum. That got me thinking, but before I could even begin to address the issue, low and behold, there were PMs from two other modellers (completely unconnected to each other and the first) also worried and discouraged that their own builds had seemingly not been even noticed because there hadn't been a single comment about them. There was definitely a pattern forming...

I know from personal experience when I first joined Kitmaker (back in the dim and distant days when I actually finished a few models! ) just how encouraging it is to get some feedback - and helpful too, when fellow modellers offer suggestions for tackling aspects that have proved troublesome.

Here at AeroScale, we are fortunate to have many modelers who are kind enough to share their work with us via posting in the forums. But sadly there seems to be a growing trend where, although there are often many views of each posting, very few readers post comments.

Is this down to shyness, or antipathy - who can tell? I remember in the past, especially when we part of the original Armorama, some people complained about the number of "Wow! That's great!" comments and started a drive for "positive criticism only". Trouble is, sometimes "Wow! That's great!" is a perfectly valid reaction to a beautifully built model - and why feel you can't comment if you can't point out anything wrong with a build? In fact, the lack of posts in response to a model could be interpreted as a negative reaction to the model by the builder.

It is in this light that I want to personally encourage everyone to feel free to post comments in response to models posted on the site, even if only to tell the builder that you enjoyed seeing their model. We also want to encourage everyone to post photos of their models as well, so please feel free to "share your work". You don't need to have built the best model in the world in order to post it on the site, as I have yet to find anyone who visits the site that does not like to look at photos of built models.

All the best

Rowan

Hi Rowan
Funny I have sent e-mails to Jessica and Tomcat on some of the points you have brought up here!
Four people on the same subject in a week, we should run a Campaign on the subject LOL!

An indifference campaign? But how would we know when we'd succeeded?

There would be no post's!

Rowan

Excellent comments, I totally aqree. I think there should be comments of encouragement and CONTRUCTTIVE feedback, especially for the younger modellers.

Thanks
Kevin

My apologies Rowan, I am usually here 2 or 3 times a day, and at some of our sister sites because I love to follow the builds that are posted on Kitmaker. It was actually this feature that first attracted me. I here by solemnly swear that I will post on topics that I view and no longer be a part of the silent majority

Later

Hello Rowan, I tend to visit Aeroscale several times a day and I try and comment as much as I can on items that draw my interest. You are absolutely right, sometimes saying WOW, that's a great model is the best thing to say. This is a great forum, for all involved and I hope that people will not be shy. Honestly, there is so much good work on this site that it is hard to be critical. I am not the best modeler in the world nor the worst, I try to bear that in mind when making comments on peoples work.
Like the people who fly the machines we build, there is always someone a little better or a little faster, or just having a better day than you are, so I try and not be overly critical. Heaven knows not every build I have finished I am completely happy with. Russell

Being around for awhile (I gave Rowan a Campaign Completion Medal, he actually finished one 6 years ago) and seeing the many changes done to the site. I can honestly say the biggest hit this forum was the split from Armorama. Then around 2009; by no ones fault, Aeroscale became a forum focussed manly on WW I and PreWar aviation. Sure there are campaigns for other era, but post a WW II or Post-war era Aircraft and you can hear the frigin' Crickets from a mile away. So with the majority of Postwar era modelers we went to where we can get advice on our subjects of choice. In other words if wanted to know if the fuel lines on a Gotha G.IV were brass or copper I come here. If I wanted to know when the UASF converted to aluminum Laquer from natural metal; unfortunatly I have to go to ARC or LSP forums for an answer.

Before anyone argues, Chucks builds seem to be an exception to the rule, but I see more former aeroscale users that people think have faded away are on LSP and ARC Forums becuase they simply feel this is a WW I Forum now. Just look at the responses to the other eras subject groups.

I have seen Rowan post that about 66 per cent of the post on Aeroscale actually have to do with WW2 aircraft and aviation history? I don't know if this still holds, although I have heard the complaint about this being a WW1 forum before. I just don't have enough information to make an accurate judgement on such a statement. Russell

Russel my point is simply, people are getting theimpression that the main focus of aeroscale is now WW I. I've been since almost begining, and remember things that can only have happened here and the friendships that were made. Those people still build models but as the focus shifted they moved on for where they could be around their prefered era aviation. Now personally i will always be lurking here and if I have a question about where to get a barrel for Parabalum LMG 14 I'll ask it here. Again with my point if someone want to know where to get the correct exhausts for an F4B Phantom (my own question with no responses) they have to go elsewhere as this site is more and more focused on WWI and Prewar aviation. I just have to point you the most popular GB/Campaigns in the last 3 years being the KotS campaigns. Very seldom do you anything posted for the other Group builds.


So on that note, I think I need to ask Rowan and Jim: Where do you want Aeroscale to be in the future?

I love the Armorama family, but feel there have been some major changes that really have alienated not just a few eras of aviation. The site has split so many times into specialised sections and page people just choose to go elsewhwere for their modeling fix.

Well the solution is simple. Put builds up in the Modern and WW II forums and start making things happen there. This is a member-driven site; the staff can't do it all. We rely on our members to provide content. So get people motivated. Get them building, posting and talking about it. Build up some critical mass in the forums.

Models of Dreams: If you build them, they will come.

Jessie, great idea!!! Never thought of it!! Sarcasm off.


With the main focus of people posting only in the early aviation forum the damage has been done. I looked at the whole of the forums for active posts and builds and the result was saddening. the only section not flooded with staff post about news and reveiws was the early aviation section. Ummm, now we have aeroscales new reputation as a WWI SIG.


Another issue to help Rowan I had friend come to the site tonight and try to post something on his new return to model building and after 30 minutes trying to find the topic button anywhere in latest post or the FORUM MENU itself he gave up. There shouldn't be a learning curve to posting on the forum. I really do think Staff_Jim should look at easing people into the site and it's forums. I also think it should return to simpler format with all the nice sections on one opening page, but I don't see that happening.


I also hate to say this, but if you really want the other sections to burst with activity again it IS the job of the leadership to encourage people to return and post here instead of else where. They also need to foster an environment where people are posting on other subject matter amd encouraging comments and discussion on the subject being modeled. This is all good to have discussion on how to attack an issue of post attrition.


So, you as leader of this comunity needs to sit with other members of the this comunity's leadership and make a decision on the direction of this site.


To be honest, most people leave here because you (the leadership) have decided to make a damn good WWI SIG, and I come here for the few kits I have that are from that era. But, when it comes to WWII and Postwar aviation I amd others feel that the focus has significantly shift away from us as members. Again to prove a point, 12 active campaigns and the only one really being focused on KOTS.

Hai,

I have made a few contributions to Aeroscale, I follow the site on a daily basis, and for my own reasons, I consider myself a loyal Aeroscale "member of the family" (hopefull not the black sheep ).

So, I simply have to contribute to this discussion.

It appears to me that Aeroscale (maye the whole of kitmaker?) has lost some of its punch over time.

Thinking about it, I see several potential reasons.

1. The Technology used for the site is getting outdated. It appears that it does not permit following new trends for user interfaces ... This makes that kitmaker is slowly loosing one of its advantages compared to other sites. I have sometimes given feedback on this but feedback on my feedback was rather scarce and I haven't seen many changes to the site as a result of that feedback.

2. Specially for the aeroscale forum, I HATE (big understatement) how it is set up not allowing the use of the back button from an individual page to the latest posts page. And I notice that I am less inclined to spend time on the site because I have to do too many useless clicks to get to the content I want to see.

3. Sometimes, kits are offered for review (but only to people living in the US). OK, I understand that postage costs have to be kept low but it does create a negative impression.

All that being said, what makes a site great is its user community and I can't agree with some of the comments made here.

1. I don't think that the staff has decided that this would become a worldclass WW I forum. I rather think (well I have seen it happen) that a few enthusiastic users started intensely discussing WW I aircraft which made it exciting for other WW I enhusiasts to join the party.

further, WW I is getting more attention everywhere with the 100th anniversary of this disaster coming closer.

2. I completely disagree that "the staff" has to do everything; Let us all be humbly grateful that they are already prepared to dedicate so much unpaid time to our benefit. Jessie is right in saying that users can make things happen by contributing, or is someone here aware of a site where the staff is initiating every forum post, writing all the articles and making all the reviews? Please give me the url.


Howener, this discussion should not be about complaining but about raising awareness of issues that can be improved; And staff has a key role to play in creating an environment in which users can show the best of themselves; Honestly, i don't think we have any reason to complain about the staff. And I hope that staff members are not taking our remarks badly but find ideas' in them to improve a few things.

Comin back to the start of this discussion, Rowan is right, we need to show more attention to the contributions of others, not only forum posts but also reviews, articles... It is quite disappointing spending a few evenings writing an article and not get any reaction to it.

All the best

Hi All
My 2 cents worth.
All hobbys have "Rivet counters"
Minority rule only if majority keeps quite.
More blogs/builds posted will help the site.
Campaigns kept to six month length.
Campaign "Enlist" requiring 10 is to high for lesser modeled aircraft/themes.
Its a hobby!

Darkslab in response, lets not read into my statements other that than there is a strange repetition of a theme when asking about Aeroscale around the internet and even local modeling clubs here in Virginia. In my local hobbyshop I asked if they could direct me to webpage for help with a Wingnut kit (the FE.2) I got and was told about Oelfag's build here. But when I needed info about my F4B conversion and recently my Mustang project I got sent to ARC (Aircraft Resource Center) and LSP (Large Scale Planes). The difference in the communities is minor other than the fact that we have, as comunnity here have let ourselves be seen as a SIG for the great war. Which is actually cool, as that has seen more attention in recent years than most other subjects. I don't blame the staff for the work they and the comunnity have done in placing special attention on the suject of early aviation; however, with this new reputation they can't complain about being seen as SIG for early aviation as they have let the focus be guided there by not promoting the other gruop builds as much. Again, the members who built WWII, Postwar, and Modern chose to head to other forums focusing on their subjects of choice. This is not the staffs fault, but they also can't complain that comunity has changed.


Now i understand that we as users have responsibilty to post our builds to this site, and encourage people to post to our threads. This would be a generally upto the users. But the staff can do things like changing the format for the current campaigns. First and formost the only campaign now requiring a seperate thread for builds is KotS (why i'm here today) but no offense to anyone I don't have time wth my rehab schedule to go trhough 900 page for another group build because they allow build progress to be posted in that single thread. I'm even going to call out Jessie for this bad habit as her T-28 Trojan is hiden in the thread for the Support Aircraft Campaign. So here is a campaign covering the whole of aviation history and where is the promotion for the topic? This is a staff issue. Campaign Format and rules are staff issues. These are things that need to be addressed. All I did was answer a question and suggest that our Editors do something other than make snide remarks about the issues at hand. To maybe do something other than let others decide where this site goes. To lead this comunnity they need to decide on the direction they want go and guide it there. Oddly enough the apothy shown is the apothy received.

@Steve

Fair enough. you are speaking from your own experience and experience is always valid.

In every undertaking, business or other, constructive criticism and a constructive answer to that criticism is vital to the continuing success of the undertaking.

I'm sure that the staff is going to read all this with interest (at least they can't complain here not getting any reaction ).

Let's see what other users have to say about all this... and what good ideas/initiatives the staff can take to support all this (remainign realistic on what is humanly feasible)

I would love to comment on everyones work, But usually i have time to chuck up my own stuff, check out one or two threads then its back to work/building/gigging!!

I will personaly try and make more of an effort. ( when im a plane phase anyway, otherwise you can find me on Armorama)


Im also a little scared about adding constructive feedback in case someone takes offense at a comment that is supposed to be helpful ( i am in no way a rivet counter )

I'm still a newbie here, and thought I would add some of my own thoughts and perspective:

I don't think, and have not thought, of this site as a WW1 site, and Steve's post(s) were the first I had heard of that perception. Perhaps it was that way in the past, but I don't know that it is still the case. Looking at the campaigns, the recent Fw190 campaign I participated in had 51 participants, while the current KoTS2 has 20 enlisted (of which I am 1). The current Fighters campaign has 68 enlisted by comparison (again, of which I am 1). I do agree that the posting of individual build threads for KoTS does give it the appearance of being more active.

I do agree with the comments regard the site, as to me, it seems a bit busy and hard to navigate. I still have not figured out how to add a pic as my avatar, or to manage (delete) pictures in my album. I've been coming here almost a year, and it took me 10 months to figure out where the campaign builds were posted, as I kept looking in the WW2 forum expecting to see build threads for the campaign like I saw in the WW1 forum (maybe simply putting the Air Campaigns sub-forum higher on the list after the "Start Here" sub-forum would help). I also agree that trying to wade through a 20 page thread to look at all the activity for a campaign is a bit difficult as it makes it hard to comment on something when you're on page 5 of 20 and don't know what else has been, or has not been, done by that individual. Perhaps if the campaign sub-forum had the main campaign page describing the campaign, and then an individual topic for each build it make work a little better?

I do think this site as the best news/reviews of any of them that I visit (IIRC, I think that I found out about the site when doing a google search looking for a review on a kit.) as well as it having the least amount of drama (at least from what I have seen). It's great to be able to have a discussion without things degenerating quickly into a drama-mess.

Regarding Rowan's post, I do agree that the site seems to be lacking in feedback, as it seems most posts have about a very low response rate. As pointed out, that goes for builds as well as reviews. I would like to see more participation by the membership regarding posting and comments, as I think that kind of thing really does enhance the site and bring more members to it. I don't think that one has to make feedback "constructive" as often simple encouragement is all that is needed/appropriate.

I also agree with Jessica that the staff can't do it all (although I think she does a good job in almost doing it all), but they can "lead by example" and set the tone for the rest of the site.

I don't know that everyone reads the General forum all the time, so perhaps if Rowan could post it (or a link here) to the other sub-forums as well, it might help get the word out

Doug

Hi all,

As a blogger of foremost the early avaition forum, and also mentioned in one of stugiiif posts, I thought I’d have my Tuppence say, in a discussion, where many valid points have been made. My thoghts may not add anyting new to whats already been said – but here goes anyway:

First of all I’d like to chime in on the general matter – there seem to be a decline in comments on postings – though not in hit rates as far as what I can see?

Not sure what has brought this about? Perhaps there is a reluctance to say anything about a subject in case you’re proved wrong. Perhaps its about commitment and time. Perhaps Aeroscale doesn’t feel hot and buzing anymore? Perhaps you don’t want to comment on builds you feel are above or below your skill?

For me the Aeroscale forums have always seemed very friendly and down to earth – no question too stupid and everyone is welcome to the table.

The simple solution would be for everyone to comment more on other builds. I generally try to comment on my fellow GBs and builds even if only to say “Way to go”!!! In future I’ll try even more.

Also if you feel there is not enough happening – make a suggestion or post something, start a thread. Like Jessie and Rowan says – its what you put in!

Is Aeroscale turning into a WWI forum only? I don’t think so. Sure there always seem to be many active blogs running, and there are always many WWI related products and publications being reviewed.

This is in no small way, due to Stephen Lawson – editor of the Early Aviation section. It’s also because we as WWI builders have, during the last couple of years, been boosted by many great new kits and products to get excited about (Roden WingNutWings etc.). Also there are a bunch of builders who put an effort in at the forum.

This makes it seem like there is more happening “over there”, though I’m not so sure its actually the case. I think you would find there are less of us building WWI stuff regulary compared with WWII.

I would also like to ad that there are many great builders and build threads over at other forums too, so its definately not like there is only action in just one place.


Enough said on the subject for now from me.

Kind Regards

Mikael

one thin i am afraid of doing to often is yes manning. some builds are faultless yes, but i really like to add something constructive to the topic, and a lot of the time, i have not the skill or knowledge to comment. sometimes a "cool build" isn't enough, so i like to add a question if possible! but sometimes, its not applicable..


my 2p!

This is a great site, and to me personally I think it is the easiest to use of all the sites I visit. I also dont think this is a site dedicated to WW1, far from it, if anything, its mainly WW2.
Why people dont post on here? Easy, I blame facebook. That said, I think each post should have a "like" button...

Hi everyone

Well, the idea was to stir things up a bit - and it looks like it worked! Thank you all for taking the time and trouble to respond. It's really interesting that people have such different perceptions of the same thing.

I can say straight off that there's been no drive to focus on WW1-era modelling. The success of that section in the forum (ironically, Early Aviation is actually still generally less well represented in the Content side of the site) is purely down to Stephen's enthusiasm and knowledge of his specialist area of modelling, which has attracted a core of like-minded modellers. Just what we want to see throughout the forum.

The Early Aviation section is lucky in having a very dynamic moderator in Stephen - and it's not for lack of looking that we've yet to find someone to lead (particularly) "Modern" in a similar way.

There are some useful ideas starting to emerge:

Campaign threads in the Era sections - it's only a hangover from the old Armorama system that has them grouped in Campaigns (I actually joked not long ago that we should move all the WW1 ones over to Campaigns where they "belong"!).

A "like" button. That's definitely one for Staff_Jim, but it could be an ideal way of showing people that their work has been appreciated, even by those who don't post a comment for whatever reason.

All the best

Rowan

@ Doug - links in each section to this thread could be a good idea. As you say, not everyone reads General Aircraft.

I think this site has the most dedicated team of staff/volunteers of any forum I have visited.

I disagree with Steve's perception of this being a WW1 specialised site, and I definitely do not think that this was a guided choice by the administration.

I think there are more novice posts on this site than on ARC or LSP, which is a really good thing. I myself found this community much easier to learn in than other sites, that generally don't have things like technique features and tutorials.

I've not had time to really contribute recently, hopefully this will change in the future.

I agree that we need more comments- maybe a 'like' button that doesn't require log-on (like the "how many people found this useful" on reviews) would be a good way of introducing people to some form of feedback, and maybe later they will start commenting?

On kitmaker there is already a notice of "hot topic", maybe somehting could be combined with that?

Still, i think that the user interface can be significantly improved.

To find new material on the forum starting from the home page you have to click "forum/latest posts/this site" [3 clicks]. After openeing and reading a subject in the forum you need to click on [latest posts/this site] (2 clicks) and you can't use the back button. With a site that is never very fast this is just boring;

I never upload pictures on the forum (hence i never discuss on-going builds) because it is just too cumbersome to do for my liking.

It has been asked here to have individual blogs for each entry in a campaign. Very good idea but these forum posts should then also be linked to the campaign headquarters of that campaign.

There is a treasure of reviews on this site, but the individual items are not in anyway clustered around their subject, why not grouping everything related to a specific model (news item, review, built review, aftermarket stuff...)

I don't want to be ngative here, on the contrary, as said before I love this site and want it to function as advanced as technically possible

We have begun to do that. In our newest reviews (published within the last few months) you should find links to related articles published previously. It's a little clumsy for us since we have to add those links in manually, but it's a start.