Now Enlisting: VAC CAMPAIGN
European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,186 posts
AeroScale: 1,587 posts
Posted: Friday, June 09, 2017 - 12:17 AM UTC
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Hi there
Do you think the timescale might send out the wrong signal? Vacuforms aren't that hard to build 
(and if we're including resins (I'm still not convinced they belong in the same campaign...) - the best of latest ones are pretty straightforward.)
Personally, I'd set a limit of a year - and even that would only to allow for "life" intervening - not the difficulty of the build.
All the best
Rowan 
I kind of agree with Rowan here, but still think a year is good for finishing-- at least for the Vac kits--he's right about the resin, frankly I'd just prefer vacs in the campaign, but I'm ok if we want to include resin. Also-- I think you should confine this Campaign to aircraft only, as there's already a campaign over in Armorama for resin I think. Just my two cents, but I'll go with whatever the group decides. There are some pretty nice vac and resin hydroplane kits out there though....Should we think about the model shipwrights guys and have this as a Kitmaker campaign?
VR, Russ
I will participate whatever the timeframe and maybe vac form is easy although it does not look like that to me.
Anyway, with the time that I have and the detailing plans I have I will not be able to finish within a year but that should not be the determining factor for the others
The mission: Beat the stash.
Almost conquered: MIG-29, Blackhawk, Skyray, Skyraider, fouga
Main battle:Demon, Skyhawk, F-14, CH-53
Stash reserve:Blackhawk, CH-46, 47 en 53; SU-7, Eurofighter, mohawk, hellcat, F-16D, 6x Fouga Magister, Voodoo
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,026 posts
AeroScale: 2,811 posts
Posted: Friday, June 09, 2017 - 10:21 AM UTC
There are (10) entrants now. Do we have a consensus on the rules and time frame of one year? I also like Russ's suggestion of making it kitmaker wide. After everyone ways in we can submit to the staff.
Bob
If it aint broke dont fix it.
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 17, 2009
KitMaker: 566 posts
AeroScale: 507 posts
Posted: Friday, June 09, 2017 - 05:57 PM UTC
Got my ducks in a row for this one so I figure Id share my vac kit too. Pretty sure its missing most of the instructions lol The donor kit is the amt/ertl boxing of the 1/48 otaki bf 109g, a childhood favorite of mine.
The rules look good to me and I wouldnt be bothered by making it kitmaker wide though I don't think Ive seen a vac kit that wasnt an aircraft. The time frame seems ok for me but Im not thinking 1/48 B-52 either
"...Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life son"
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,026 posts
AeroScale: 2,811 posts
Posted: Friday, June 09, 2017 - 08:16 PM UTC
So! Aeroscale airplane only vac and resin one year time frame is what I am reading. If yall are in agreement I will submit to the staff to see if we are able to get a GO!
Anyone have a ribbon suggestion?
That makes (10) now with skypilot.
Bigrip74
Scrodes
Drabslab
Kevlar06
JClapp
gajouette
mrockhill
eMan
Merlin
skypilot
Bob
If it aint broke dont fix it.
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Posted: Friday, June 09, 2017 - 08:35 PM UTC
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....The rules look good to me and I wouldnt be bothered by making it kitmaker...I don't think Ive seen a vac kit that wasnt an aircraft...
Craftmasters started with Vac-formed 1/48 hydroplane hulls several years ago, but have since switched to all resin kits (which are very nice by the way). Wing's models made a Japanese 2 man midget submarine (of which I have one-- about 50% completed on my shelf of doom), and there are other ship Vacuform and conversion sets as well. There are a few obscure tank kits and several conversions-- and some auto body conversion shells that were made in the 60s and 70 that are still out there. Most Vacuform kits have been relegated to the back shelf of the LHS since few folks even bother to build Vacuform kits anymore. Frankly I can't think of a single Vacuform manufacturer still in business today (maybe Wings models?) when there were many a few years ago. The bigger ones (if there ever was such a thing) are long gone. Rareplane, Contrail, Aviation Usk, Formaplane, and dozens of other smaller manufacturers "bit the dust" years ago. Vacforms may be considered a "dark art" by some, but at one time they were very common-- I'd describe them more as a "lost art" than a dark art, and really, there's nothing mysterious about them-- instead of separating parts form sprues, you just separate parts form a sheet of styrene-- with a little more clean up work of course, but they still assemble with polystyrene cement!
VR, Russ
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Posted: Friday, June 09, 2017 - 08:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
So! Aeroscale airplane only vac and resin one year time frame is what I am reading. If yall are in agreement I will submit to the staff to see if we are able to get a GO!
Anyone have a ribbon suggestion?
That makes (10) now with skypilot.
Bigrip74
Scrodes
Drabslab
Kevlar06
JClapp
gajouette
mrockhill
eMan
Merlin
skypilot
Bob
Bob, are you including spacecraft in with scale aircraft? There are still several manufacturers specializing in Vacuform and multi-media kits of spacecraft as well.
I'm ok with keeping it to aircraft, but I think spacecraft could easily be included in that category.
VR, Russ
#259
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: October 23, 2011
KitMaker: 2,265 posts
AeroScale: 1,715 posts
Posted: Friday, June 09, 2017 - 10:54 PM UTC
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Frankly I can't think of a single Vacuform manufacturer still in business today (maybe Wings models?) when there were many a few years ago.
There is still
Welsh Models, though all his new products are resin, he has a substantial catalog of all vac and multi-media kits.
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Posted: Friday, June 09, 2017 - 11:25 PM UTC
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Frankly I can't think of a single Vacuform manufacturer still in business today (maybe Wings models?) when there were many a few years ago.
There is still Welsh Models, though all his new products are resin, he has a substantial catalog of all vac and multi-media kits.
Jonathan,
Yep, I forgot about Welsh models but as you said, he's more into resin, which is the other medium we've come to expect as model builders now days, and seems to be a more accepted medium than Vac-forms. I still carve wooden and plastic molds for my own purposes so I can vac form stuff, and there are many scratchbuilders that do the same, but I think vac forming complete kits as a business is about dead. This is a shame really, because there are so many types of aircraft the mainstream plastic manufacturers have yet to produce, especially those from the golden age of aviation. I guess nobody really cares about those aircraft anymore. I think this is the niche that Vac manufacturers were good at. I often question why we need 20 ME109s or 15 Mustangs on the market, when nobody has made a decent Loening, Sikorsky, P2Y, or a Hall flying boat, but I guess WWII subjects sell the best. As I said before, Vacs seem to be a dying art. By the way, I checked on Wings Models (Dons Model Works)-- they've been out of business since 2011 when the owner, LTC (RET) USA, Don Bennett passed away- his son has put up a tribute on the website. Not sure what happened to the molds, but they were very nice models of some very obscure aircraft.
VR, Russ
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,026 posts
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Posted: Saturday, June 10, 2017 - 02:14 AM UTC
What does everyone think of Russ's suggestion to change the name to Lost Art, I like it.
Bob
If it aint broke dont fix it.
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 17, 2009
KitMaker: 566 posts
AeroScale: 507 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 10, 2017 - 04:30 AM UTC
Perhaps "Lost Art?"
Because...Its not QUITE dead yet
I didnt intend to mean I wouldnt bother with opening it up to the rest of kitmaker, I was trying to say Id be fine with it being all inclusive. I doubt we are going to get flooded out by vacuform tanks ships and cars, we might pick up a couple more builders since there are apparently some other vac genres
"...Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life son"
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,026 posts
AeroScale: 2,811 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 10, 2017 - 04:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Perhaps "Lost Art?"
Because...Its not QUITE dead yet
I didnt intend to mean I wouldnt bother with opening it up to the rest of kitmaker, I was trying to say Id be fine with it being all inclusive. I doubt we are going to get flooded out by vacuform tanks ships and cars, we might pick up a couple more builders since there are apparently some other vac genres
Mike, dont worry about any thing. You are correct, it is a lost art as Russ stated also. Were just funneling down the campaign as we (10) see it at this time and you are also correct in that there will not be as many to join in.
OK!
"LOST ART?" guys and on aeroscale for vac and resin?
Bob
If it aint broke dont fix it.
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 10, 2017 - 07:19 AM UTC
I wasn't critiquing Mike either-- I just thought it would be interesting to delve into the history a bit, and historically there were kits in other genres that were Vac formed, not so much anymore though, and that's not necessarily a bad thing either. I also wasn't ragging on the name "dark art", I was only suggesting that it's an art form that appears to be dying out-- I think "lost art" is certainly appropriate. In the old days, we viewed Vac kits as a "craftsman" type of building-- it Got us a model or two that we couldn't hope to get from mainstream manufacturers. It certainly has never appealed to everyone either. nowdays, we can get just about everything we want, and Vacs are really a throwback to another era of modeling so "lost art" is quite appropriate. Good call Bob.
VR, Russ
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,026 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 12:00 AM UTC
The campaign proposal was submitted to the staff.
Anyone have any ribbon ideas?
Bob
If it aint broke dont fix it.
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 12:34 PM UTC
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I will participate whatever the timeframe and maybe vac form is easy although it does not look like that to me.
Anyway, with the time that I have and the detailing plans I have I will not be able to finish within a year but that should not be the determining factor for the others
Hi Drabslab
To be honest, if you've never tackled a vacuform, I wouldn't recommend your B-52 as a first build. I think you'd be wiser to cut your teeth on something much smaller and cheaper to practise the techniques you can then transfer to the Stratofortress with a degree of confidence.
All the best
Rowan
BEWARE OF THE FEW...
As I grow older, I regret to say that a detestable habit of thinking seems to be getting a hold of me. - H. Rider Haggard
Joined: September 26, 2007
KitMaker: 3 posts
AeroScale: 3 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 - 07:18 AM UTC
Ditto what Bob said! I'm sure I could use it now also!
Sky9pilot
#521
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
AeroScale: 375 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 17, 2017 - 05:24 PM UTC
Hey Jonathon - looks like things have not changed too much!
Just this week on Kwajalein:
(My niece works there and I showed her your model photos - she sent this in return.)Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,026 posts
AeroScale: 2,811 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 17, 2017 - 10:43 PM UTC
Micheal, beautiful photo.
Bob
If it aint broke dont fix it.
#521
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
AeroScale: 375 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 17, 2017 - 11:18 PM UTC
Please take this post with a grain of salt as I am possibly just being a trouble maker. However I do get involved in Vac-Formed kits from time to time - but in my case they are the wingless variety. Sorry couldn't resist.
Blitz Bus
Bussing-Nag S3500
-
#259
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: October 23, 2011
KitMaker: 2,265 posts
AeroScale: 1,715 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 05:30 AM UTC
Hey Michael Koenig, thanks for sharing that lovely picture. That sky and those palm trees take me right back. Tell your niece thanks for me!
It is also good to see AMI still flying, they have been on-again-off-again for years.
That aircraft is AMI's DHC Dash8 V7-0210. I actually have a Welsh Models resin Dash8 kit I got to make a model of that exact aircraft.
Those are interesting truck models, thanks for sharing those too.
#521
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
AeroScale: 375 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 11:07 AM UTC
One more photo from Kwaj:
Thanks for putting up with an old armor modeler.
European Union
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,186 posts
AeroScale: 1,587 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 06:21 PM UTC
Quoted Text
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I will participate whatever the timeframe and maybe vac form is easy although it does not look like that to me.
Anyway, with the time that I have and the detailing plans I have I will not be able to finish within a year but that should not be the determining factor for the others
Hi Drabslab
To be honest, if you've never tackled a vacuform, I wouldn't recommend your B-52 as a first build. I think you'd be wiser to cut your teeth on something much smaller and cheaper to practise the techniques you can then transfer to the Stratofortress with a degree of confidence.
All the best
Rowan
Wow, Merlin,
You must be one of the only people ever who managed a sentence referring to me and containing the word "wise" without making it sound totally ridiculous
I hear you loud and clear but that B-52 is sooo tempting, I don't know whether I will be able to resist
The mission: Beat the stash.
Almost conquered: MIG-29, Blackhawk, Skyray, Skyraider, fouga
Main battle:Demon, Skyhawk, F-14, CH-53
Stash reserve:Blackhawk, CH-46, 47 en 53; SU-7, Eurofighter, mohawk, hellcat, F-16D, 6x Fouga Magister, Voodoo
Texas, United States
Joined: February 22, 2008
KitMaker: 5,026 posts
AeroScale: 2,811 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 08:41 PM UTC
Drabslab, how about we do it in sub assemblies. Just sent out a wing to one and the fuse to another and so on then maybe it could be built in a year by those assemblies being shipped back to you for the final touch.
The proposal had been submitted last week, but no answer yet.
Bob
If it aint broke dont fix it.
#259
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: October 23, 2011
KitMaker: 2,265 posts
AeroScale: 1,715 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 10:23 PM UTC
Mike K., thank you for indulging my nostalgia for Kwaj, I spend many hours right there on Emon beach.
Speaking of non-aircraft vacuforms, here is a little project i just did (instead of building airplanes, but it helped get me going, i hope)
I was enjoying some Japanese rice crackers, and noticed the nice packaging.
I decided I could make some 1/144 scale metal sheds for my Kwajalein diorama.
I think they came out ok. they just need some details, like a ventilator fan to sit on top of the recycle symbol.
This was a nice exercize in working in very thin vacuform plastics, very like a vacuform canopy.
Vacuform canopies are an item many aircraft model builders will deal with increasingly, even as whole kit building is passing.
#521
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
AeroScale: 375 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 18, 2017 - 10:41 PM UTC
They certainly look on the money to me.
Merlin
Senior Editor #017
United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 12:34 AM UTC
Hi Jonathon
Very neat! I used to use weird and wonderful bits of packaging for sci-fi scratchbuilds, but never something as down-to-earth as a corrugated roof.
Quoted Text
Drabslab, how about we do it in sub assemblies. Just sent out a wing to one and the fuse to another and so on then maybe it could be built in a year by those assemblies being shipped back to you for the final touch.
Hi Bob - there is maybe the germ of a really good idea in there. Not poor Drabslab's prized B-52, obviously! LOL! - but co-operative builds could be great fun.
One thing that comes straight to mind would be builds based around decal sheets that have so many options you know you'll never tackle them all yourself. Sometimes you even buy a sheet just for one scheme and the rest of the items will go unused.
Or, maybe, there will one day be that mega-kit that comes for review that, realistically, is a "club-build". I remember Hasegawa released a Zero multi-pack years ago that had so many kits in it that even I baulked at the prospect! (I think Jean-Luc actually did go for it - and if there's anyone I've ever known who could do a stunning job on the lot of them in a sensible timescale, he's the man.
) But, for us mere mortals, a group of people on Aeroscale could be that "club" - albeit spread around the globe.
All the best
Rowan
BEWARE OF THE FEW...
As I grow older, I regret to say that a detestable habit of thinking seems to be getting a hold of me. - H. Rider Haggard
