Air Campaigns
Want to start or join a group build? This is where to start.
Falklands War Pre-Campaign Thread
bf443
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Idaho, United States
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 09:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Does anyone know where I can get decals and a painting instruction for this aircraft (or any Mirage IIIEA), in the correct timeframe?



Hello Stephan,

I believe there is two options right now, one company http://www.aerocalcas.com/ shows decal 48008 with the markings you want and the other is http://www.aztecmodels.com/azt_prin.htm they also show Argentine Mirage/Daggers both web sites have lists of vendors that sell their products. I have heard Aztec quality is very good I do not know about aerocalas maybe Carlos (csch) could shed some light on that company as they are located in Argentina.

Sincerely,
Brian
csch
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
AeroScale: 1,040 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 12:26 PM UTC
Hi Stefan:

Decals from Aerocalcas are of good quality. It´s a small company that print only Argentine Arcraft Decals. You can try to buy them through their site. If that doesn´t work I can buy them and send them to you, later you send me the money. Here is a pic of the Mirage decals.

With this set you can build the I 003 that was part of the Escuadron Comodoro Rivadavia that took part in Malvinas.

Phantom2
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Östergötland, Sweden
Joined: April 18, 2006
KitMaker: 708 posts
AeroScale: 678 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 09:54 AM UTC
Hi all!

Here´s some pics of my builds for this Campaign.

As usual, I have a hard time deciding on what to build, but here are my three choices;

Main build will be this Italeri (ESCI re-pop) Mirage IIIE in 1/48 and in Argentinian dress;



Second Build will be a British BAe Sea Harrier FRS-1 from Airfix in 1/48;



Third build (if time allows!) will be a (Argentinian) M.B. 326A from Italeri in 1/48;



Now we have to get building soon!

Cheers!

Stefan E
somtec
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: December 01, 2005
KitMaker: 421 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 07, 2007 - 11:27 PM UTC
Hi
A couple of days ago i recieved 3 copies of Scale aircraft modelling magazines from 2002 dealing with the Falklands aircraft covering the building of mirage ,dagger ,skyhawk, mb339, turbo mentor, super etendard, sea harrier and gr3 harrier. some really good looking models.

In the article covering the war itself it states that during and just after the war Chile recieved some fga 9 hunters and canberra aircfat from the UK but more interesting is the photo of a pr.9 canberra in raf camo but no markings allegedly in Chile at the time being used for recce missions and also it mentions a rumour of a black painted comet shaped aircraft in use at the same time.
Got me wondering if at any time during the war there was a plan for raf pilots to be using the canberra/ nimrod aircraft for recce missions followed up by a strike mission using hunters launched from Chile. Guess we'll never know for sure.

Brian would an unmarked canberra pr.9 rumoured to have flown missions qualify for the campaign or would that be pushing it a bit, i dont have one to build just curious, like wise a Peruvian supplied mirage v .

cheers
peter
bf443
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Idaho, United States
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2007 - 06:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Brian would an unmarked canberra pr.9 rumoured to have flown missions qualify for the campaign or would that be pushing it a bit, i dont have one to build just curious, like wise a Peruvian supplied mirage v .



Hello Peter,

The reading I'm doing on the Falklands also mentions the Recon Canberra as well so I believe that to be factual so yes, that would be acceptable. The Peru Mirages........No I don't think so.

Another item worthy that I will allow to be included if someone wants is Postwar Phantom based at Port Stanley (airfield was enlarged) for island defence. Aeromaster decal sheet "Smokers" 48-557 is out of production but could probably be found in private sell.

Also [url]www.squadron.com[url] has the Czech 1/48th Turbomentor Strike Aircraft (T-34C) on sale for $12.99 (thats 50% off normal price). This comes with markings for the Falklands War.

Sincerely,
Brian
csch
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
AeroScale: 1,040 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2007 - 06:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi
Brian would an unmarked canberra pr.9 rumoured to have flown missions qualify for the campaign or would that be pushing it a bit, i dont have one to build just curious, like wise a Peruvian supplied mirage v .

cheers
peter



Hi Peter:

Definitely no Peruvian mirages were used in Malvinas / Falklands War.

Regards.
Carlos

somtec
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: December 01, 2005
KitMaker: 421 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Monday, July 09, 2007 - 04:44 PM UTC
Hi Carlos
Any idea on when the Peru mirages arrived and when they actually entered service,
Just trying to get my head around the new names of upgraded mirage types
am i correct in saying it was these that were upgraded and called mara
Daggers have become Fingers
Mirage 111EA still known as mirage

Israei supplied mirage 111cj no longer in service.

cheers
peter
csch
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
AeroScale: 1,040 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 - 04:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Carlos
Any idea on when the Peru mirages arrived and when they actually entered service,
Just trying to get my head around the new names of upgraded mirage types
am i correct in saying it was these that were upgraded and called mara
Daggers have become Fingers
Mirage 111EA still known as mirage

Israei supplied mirage 111cj no longer in service.

cheers
peter



Hi Peter:

I´ll check the info that I have about it, then I tell you.

Cheers
Carlos
csch
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
AeroScale: 1,040 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 10:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hi Carlos
Any idea on when the Peru mirages arrived and when they actually entered service,
Just trying to get my head around the new names of upgraded mirage types
am i correct in saying it was these that were upgraded and called mara
Daggers have become Fingers
Mirage 111EA still known as mirage

Israei supplied mirage 111cj no longer in service.

cheers
peter



Hi Peter:

I´ll check the info that I have about it, then I tell you.

Cheers
Carlos



Hi Peter:

The Republic of Peru sold to the Argentine goverment in the last stages of the conflict 10 Mirage M5P, they arrived to the Base Aerea Tandil on 10th June 1982. The were flown by Peruvian pilots to the Argentine Air Base. The aircrafts never saw combat, the war ended before the Argentine pilots were trained with the type.
This aircraft was capable to exced two times the speed of sound.

Regards.
Carlos
csch
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
AeroScale: 1,040 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 12:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hi Carlos
Just trying to get my head around the new names of upgraded mirage types
am i correct in saying it was these that were upgraded and called mara
Daggers have become Fingers
Mirage 111EA still known as mirage

Israei supplied mirage 111cj no longer in service.

cheers


peter



Hi Peter:

I´ll check the info that I have about it, then I tell you.

Cheers
Carlos



Hi Peter:

More info about your question.

The 10th August 1978, the Fuerza Aerea Argentina bought to Israel IAI Nesher aircrafts. Once in Argentina they received the name Dagger and they begun to operate with the Grupo 6 de Caza.

After their participation in the Yom Kippur war the Daggers saw action again in Malvinas / Falklands conflict. Operating from the Base Aerea San Julian and Rio Gallegos they flew 115 combat sorties and they were the first aircrafts of the FAA to saw action on the 1st May 1982.

After the war they were upgraded with an Integrated Navigation and Shooting System similar to the one used by the israeli IAI Kfir C-2. This upgrading project was called Finger. In 1985 from the Base Aerea Rio Cuarto the upgraded M5 Finger took the air for the first time.
These aircrafts weren´t the M5P that came from Peru, they were the Upgraded Daggers

Regards.
Carlos

csch
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
AeroScale: 1,040 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 08:28 AM UTC
Hi all:
For those interested in the Argentine Daggers that saw action in Malvinas / Falklands War, some camo schemes and one Impresive picture:




Argentine Dagger C-436 flying low at high speed over RFA Sir Bedivere on 24th May 1982.



alpha_tango
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Germany
Joined: September 07, 2005
KitMaker: 5,609 posts
AeroScale: 5,231 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 08:48 AM UTC
Hola compañeros

I bought an Airfix (Heller) Super Entendard last week. It looks not bad, but could benefit from some AM goodies. I know there is a cockpit fom NeOmega (wich I try to get).

Anything else? Exocet, burner can, undercarriage?

saludos

Steffen
csch
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
AeroScale: 1,040 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 01:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hola compañeros

I bought an Airfix (Heller) Super Entendard last week. It looks not bad, but could benefit from some AM goodies. I know there is a cockpit fom NeOmega (wich I try to get).

Anything else? Exocet, burner can, undercarriage?

saludos

Steffen



Hola Steffen:

What scale is the Airfix Etendard ?
Academy has a nice Super Etendard in 1/72. Here you have some pics of these birds in Malvinas / Falklands conflict during 1982:
The decals for these aircrafts are available from Aerocalcas.



alpha_tango
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Germany
Joined: September 07, 2005
KitMaker: 5,609 posts
AeroScale: 5,231 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 12, 2007 - 06:35 PM UTC
Hola Carlos

It is 1/48 and it has decals suitable for the Malvinas campaign (for 202) ... but I am not sure if these are for 1982 or later...

As I wrote, I still seek for AM stuff.

viele Grüße

Steffen
somtec
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: December 01, 2005
KitMaker: 421 posts
AeroScale: 29 posts
Posted: Friday, July 13, 2007 - 06:31 AM UTC
Hi Carlos
Excellent info on the fingers etc , many thanks

Peter
csch
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
AeroScale: 1,040 posts
Posted: Friday, July 13, 2007 - 08:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Carlos
Excellent info on the fingers etc , many thanks

Peter



You´re welcome Peter. If you need something else just ask.

Regards.
Carlos
csch
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
AeroScale: 1,040 posts
Posted: Friday, July 13, 2007 - 08:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hola Carlos

It is 1/48 and it has decals suitable for the Malvinas campaign (for 202) ... but I am not sure if these are for 1982 or later...

As I wrote, I still seek for AM stuff.

viele Grüße

Steffen



Hola Steffen:

The Super Etendard 3 - A - 202 was the one that made the last launch of an AM 39 in the war the 30th May 1982.
Are you decals for that aircraft ?
It´s the one of the first and third pictures.

alpha_tango
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Germany
Joined: September 07, 2005
KitMaker: 5,609 posts
AeroScale: 5,231 posts
Posted: Friday, July 13, 2007 - 08:32 AM UTC
Hola Carlos

actually it is on 3 of your 4 pictures. The kit has those Exocet missile/mission markings (pic1), but as I said, I am not sure whether this are markings from 1982 or much later ... your pix are from 1994 (if i got that right .. my Spanish is very bad) ....

If possible i would like to make the machine from a mission during the 1982 campaign and I also like to have some info on the pilot ...?! (do you know a source .. I will also check my osprey booklet ...)

best wishes

Steffen

csch
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
AeroScale: 1,040 posts
Posted: Friday, July 13, 2007 - 10:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hola Carlos

actually it is on 3 of your 4 pictures. The kit has those Exocet missile/mission markings (pic1), but as I said, I am not sure whether this are markings from 1982 or much later ... your pix are from 1994 (if i got that right .. my Spanish is very bad) ....

If possible i would like to make the machine from a mission during the 1982 campaign and I also like to have some info on the pilot ...?! (do you know a source .. I will also check my osprey booklet ...)

best wishes

Steffen




Hi Steffen:

Your right, the pics are from after the war but the scheme remains the same.
Here I post a pic with the schemes from 1982 and 1994. The colour and type of markings are the same. You have to be sure that the decals have the correspondent badge of the Sqn. and kill markings. (The first one is from 1982).

This is the aircraft today in the Museo Aeronaval. It has the scheme that it worn during the war:

Here you have an artwork from the Argentine artist Carlos Garcia that depicts the aircraft we are talking during a special mision:
On May 31st, 1982, the only joint (Navy-Air Force) attack operation of the war took place. The attackers were: Super Etendard Flight (callsign "Ala") Lt. Cdr. Francisco, Lt. Collavino (Navy); A-4C Flight (callsign "Zonda") 1st Lt. Ureta, Sub-Lieutenant Isaac, 1st Lt Vázquez (K.I.A.), 1st Lt. Castillo (K.I.A.) (Air Force) After a hair-rising flight -that included in-flight refueling from Air Force KC-130's- the two flights approached the targets from the East, thus making use of the surprise element.
Ala flight launched the -then- latest AM-39 Exocet in the Argentine naval inventory, while Zonda begun chasing the missile in order to locate the British Task Force. Though 1Lt's Castillo and Vázquez were shot down, both Ureta and Isaac managed to reach the British fleet and drop its bombs. According to these pilots' debrief, the Exocet had hit HMS Invincible, and they subsequently bombed it.

This is the set of decals for the Super Etendard from Aerocalcas. They are the complement for the ones of the Heller Kit:

I´ll check the info of that aircraft / pilot / sqn for you.
Regards.
Carlos
alpha_tango
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Germany
Joined: September 07, 2005
KitMaker: 5,609 posts
AeroScale: 5,231 posts
Posted: Friday, July 13, 2007 - 06:20 PM UTC
Hola Calos

muchas gracias!!! Seems I have to get that decal set.

I will be away fo 2 weeks and I am not sure if i can check in from time to time ... so do not be disappointed if i cannot answer fast.

all the best

Steffen
bf443
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Idaho, United States
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 08:46 PM UTC
Hello everyone,

I hope people are enjoying the pre-thread and the information that has become available to members. One of items I really appreciate is the informal box reviews of the various kits that are available for this build. Indeed this special event has not only airplanes but a large assortment of helicopters as well so I believe there is something here appealing to all the members.

It's my intention in the remaining days leading up to the build to start doing informal reviews of kits that are applicable to this build. Hopefully this may encourage someone to sign up and tackle a particular kit. But please keep in mind I am no modeling expert and these are my opinions. but for now we have three formal reviews made by members and the timing of them could not have been better so here they are:

https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/review/585

https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/review/2615

https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/review/2606

https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/review/2375


www.squadron.com has the T-34C on sale for $12.99, thats 50% off the normal price.

Sincerely,
Brian
Phantom2
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Östergötland, Sweden
Joined: April 18, 2006
KitMaker: 708 posts
AeroScale: 678 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 01:40 AM UTC
Hi Brian!

Good idea about showing box-reviews on kits that can be used for the Campaign!
I had missed that Turbo-Mentor, now it´s on my "will-get" list!

A question-mark though about the Mirage IIIC kits.
They are beautiful, both the Eduard and Hobbyboss offerings, but from what I have read the FAA only used the Mirage IIIE version.
The E- version have a slightly longer (and wider?) fuselage due to a stronger (and larger) engine.

The FAA Mirage IIIE´s looked like -C´s as they did not have the radar bulge under the nose, and the fuselage changes were rather small so they are very hard to tell apart.

Does anybody know more about this?
Carlos, Steffen?

Nobody would be more delighted than me, If a "regular" -C could be used as I have both -C kits, and they are much better then the old and outdated Italeri/Esci -E.

Cheers!

Stefan E
bf443
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Idaho, United States
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 08:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A question-mark though about the Mirage IIIC kits.
They are beautiful, both the Eduard and Hobbyboss offerings, but from what I have read the FAA only used the Mirage IIIE version.
The E- version have a slightly longer (and wider?) fuselage due to a stronger (and larger) engine.



Hello Phantom2,

This might help you out. While the Mirage IIIC was being put into production, Dassault was also considering a multirole/strike variant of the aircraft, which eventually materialized as the Mirage IIIE. The first of three prototypes flew on 1 April 1961.

The Mirage IIIE differed from the IIIC interceptor most obviously in having a 300 mm (11.8 in) forward fuselage extension to increase the size of the avionics bay behind the cockpit. The stretch also helped increase fuel capacity, as the Mirage IIIC had marginal range and improvements were needed. The stretch was small and hard to notice, but the clue is that the bottom edge of the canopy on a Mirage IIIE ends directly above the top lip of the air intake, while on the IIIC it ends visibly back of the lip.

Many Mirage IIIE variants were also fitted with a Marconi continuous-wave Doppler navigation radar radome on the bottom of the fuselage, under the cockpit. However, while no IIICs had this feature, it was not universal on all variants of the IIIE. A similar inconsistent variation in Mirage fighter versions was the presence or absence of an HF antenna that was fitted as a forward extension to the vertical tailplane. On some Mirages, the leading edge of the tailplane was a straight line, while on those with the HF antenna the leading edge had a sloping extension forward. The extension appears to have been generally standard on production Mirage IIIAs and Mirage IIICs, but only appeared in some of the export versions of the Mirage IIIE.

The IIIE featured Thomson-CSF Cyrano II dual mode air / ground radar; a radar warning receiver (RWR) system with the antennas mounted in the vertical tailplane; and an Atar 09C engine, with a petal-style variable exhaust.

I don't know if 11.8 scale inches will bother you (that comes out to .25" on the model) but I'm not a bean counter and your welcome to use the kits you have. After all in the end when assembled they look like Mirage's. Now If it's a Dagger, they have a very different (really noticable) nose section than a IIIE. The choice is yours either way please enjoy your build.

Sincerely,
Brian
csch
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
AeroScale: 1,040 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 11:11 AM UTC
Hi Stefan:.
No Mirages IIIC were used by Argentina in the South Atlantic conflict. The Argentine goverment purchased the Mirages IIICJ after the war to replace the aircrafts looses. A total of 19 Mirages III CJ and 3 Mirages III BJ were bought. The first 7 arrived at Buenos Aires on the 18 December 1982.

bf443
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Idaho, United States
Joined: May 16, 2003
KitMaker: 895 posts
AeroScale: 457 posts
Posted: Monday, July 16, 2007 - 07:10 AM UTC
Hello everyone,

Here is the first of several kit reviews I mentioned.

This ESCI kit has been around for a long time and has been issued several times. I purchased this on ebay. I have seen them at swap meets or regional contests in the vendor’s areas. The kit comprises 64 parts molded in tan color plastic that is smooth in texture and shiny (probably needs a bath in dish soap). The parts are flash free and are reasonably detailed. The wheel wells have basic detail in them, the cockpit is sparse, decals are provided, but with a tiny single piece canopy you’re not going to see much anyway.


An Avionics hump, typical of late model Sky hawk’s is included as a separate add on but would not be used for an Argentine Aircraft of the “Falklands War” The Argentines had a small avionics “Hump” (Radio Compass) that would need to be scratch built (see the photo).


The fuselage appears to line up well, I suspect a weight needs to be put in the nose section but I did not see anything in the directions about it. The detail consists of engraved panel lines and is not to heavy handed but should survive if you need to sand the kit.




The wings are detailed but for some reason have a mix of recessed and raised panel lines. To be honest it's not that big of a deal but the raised lines could be re-scribed in no time.


The landing gear has good detail and there is a choice of in flight or gear down display. Two refueling probes are included (straight and offset) all photos of Argentine aircraft I have seen during the war had straight probes.

The ordinance composes two fuel tanks, six Mk.82 500 pound bombs and two LAU rocket pods. The model has the pylons for five positions this was seen on air force aircraft but Naval aircraft show only two inboard pylons and the fuselage center pylon (Photos of the particular version you want are helpful). Typical load for an air force bird was single British or US Mk. 83 General Purpose Bomb (1000 lbs.) and two external fuel tanks. Naval aircraft often carried four Mk.82 (Plain or Snakeyes) on a M.E.R. (multiple ejector rack) attached to the center pylon and two external fuel tanks. It’s best to review photos of the aircraft you intend model.


The decals of course are old and incorrect for this campaign anyway (Israeli and Australian) but aftermarket decals for Skyhawk’s are available and should make attractive and interesting aircraft. Even though ESCI is not making aircraft models anymore they are often found at garage sales, the Internet, modeling contests (vendors) or probably in your closet as we read! In my opinion this will be a good kit to build because it is simple, occupies little space and when finished, looks the part.


Here is the second of my reviews. The 1/72 scale, SA330 Puma, by Airfix. The Puma is an assault transport helicopter. It was used by Argentina in the Falklands War. The British also used the Puma but none were sent with the South Atlantic Invasion Fleet. From the information I have gathered so far I can confirm three Pumas were present for the war. One was used on South Georgia Island by the Argentine Army and was shot down by Royal Marines on the opening day of the invasion of South Georgia. These photos are about five years old and found at http://www.mclaren.gs/



The other two were present on the Falklands themselves around Port Stanley operated by the Army and Argentine Coast Guard. By the end of the conflict neither aircraft survived.

The Airfix kit has been around for some time and on opening the box and pulling the trees out of the plastic bag we have around 100 pieces molded in grey and clear plastic. The molding sprues are massive compared to other kits but do not interfere with the parts. The flash is minimal. The clear parts are thick and distort whatever they are covering. That may not be bad as the interior is very sparse. However, two pilot figures and decals for the cockpit are included.


The exterior fuselage parts have numerous rivets way out of scale. I think a light sanding would improve their appearance. The exhausts for the engine are well molded and have tapered ends.



The cockpit and cabin interior lack any structural detail and if the side doors are modeled open someone may want to add extra detail.


The rotor head appears to have decent detail and the assembly to the helicopter body is simple according to the directions. The tail rotor is protected by a semi-circular sprue and I suspect it is very fragile, use extreme care in removing it from the sprue.


The decals are for French or British Helicopter, in fact I don’t know what markings are correct for Argentina because I have never located a decent picture of one. Can anybody shed some light on this?


Helicopter models are foreign to me and I don’t know much about them, but judging from actual pictures the outline of the model looks like a Puma and I think this is the only SA330 around. It’s still in production and cost is around $8.00 US. Italeri does a Super Puma and the nose and air intakes are different shaped from this kit. It’s appealing to me because of the Falklands history plus it’s uncommon to see around modeling tables.

Sincerely,
Brian