Hi Brian and Carlos!

Well, you both confirmed what I had found earlier, so I´ll stick to the old Esci-kit!

I have compared the two variants and the differences are quite obvious if you know what to look for!
I had missed the nose extension earlier, though!
Thanks for pointing that out!

Most noticeble difference are the rear fuselage part, the burners are quite different and the strake on the -C compared to the keel-bulge on the -E.


So I´ll go with the Esci kit, not that bad though.

These Campaigns are not only great fun, they are educating too!

Cheers!

Stefan E

Definitely, on both counts.

Howdy fellas,

For some reason this Campaign has tickled my soft underbelly....and I was looking for an excuse to build {maybe} something in a larger scale.
So, with all the talk on the thread about the Mirage III's I was looking for some input on the possiblities of building one of these.......



Now, I am aware that Argentina got some Daggers from the Isreali's but would this particular kit be close enough for the task?
If it in fact is, any suggestions on decal/transfer sources in 1/32nd scale?

tia

Tread.

Hi gordon:

The IAI Nesher was a copy of the French Mirage 5. Argentina purchased some Neshers to Israel previously to the conflict but these Neshers (Daggers in Argentina) look diferent from the one on the art box you posted, specially the nose.
The only Mirages that Argentina used in the War were the IIIEA and the Daggers.
The Peruvian Mirages 5P weren´t used in the war, they arrived too late.

Regards.
Carlos

Howdy Carlos

Thx for your kind reply.
I have been doing my own bit of research regarding the Mirage and have found that there were many variations of this bird. Including examples of both the Mirage III and the Mirage 5 with similar 'noses'.
The most solid description I can find that this kit would work is that the canopy end lines up vertically with the front of the engine intake. Other models of the Mirage {that weren't involved} had the canopy that extended further back and ended beyond the front of the engine intake......

example below.....


{kinda makes ya wonder if they maybe put a MIrage III in a Mirage 5 box....but then the "Mephesto" was a real aircraft so probably not}
Any further, or potentially more accurate information {than my own} is most welcome from you or any other member who might be able to shine a stronger light on the subject.

Many thx in advance for your efforts.

Tread.

PostSript: Even though I think this entry would work, I can always switch to the old Testors 1/32nd scale SA 330 kit

Hi Gordon!

Well, knowing how Revell usually boxes their old stuff with new decals and markings, I suspect that is EXACTLY what Revell have done here
I´d say this IS a Mirage IIIE!

I don´t have this issue of the kit, but i do have the old, initial issue, Revell Mirage IIIE!

That kit is over 30 years old now, but still holds together, and I still have the instructions!

From my kit I could build a French Camouflaged IIIE (my version) or a Swiss Mirage IIIES/RS with the longer recce-photonose (shown on the Mephisto boxtop).


On some Mirages, the leading edge of the tailplane was a straight line, while on those with the HF antenna the leading edge had a sloping extension forward. The extension appears to have been generally standard on production Mirage IIIAs and Mirage IIICs, but only appeared in some of the export versions of the Mirage IIIE (FAA Mirages had this antenna).

If your kit contains a "standard" nose (wich I suspect is there somewhere), I would say you can easily build a true Argentinian Mirage IIIEA.
Just leave the under-chin doppler radar bulge in the box and add the little sloping HF antenna in front of the fin.
(Look at the pics on page 2!)
But you have to find the markings yourself, not easy in 1/48, even harder in 1/32.

Here is a very useful link to the different versions of the Mirage;

http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avmir3.html

Good Luck!

Cheers!

Stefan E

Hi Gordon:

I reserched again all the info and I confirm you that the only Mirages that took part in the war were the IIEA and the IAI Daggers.
Here I post a couple of images of the noses of both types. They are quite diferent from that one of the Revell kit. As Stefan said, I guess that if you can change the nose, the rest of the AC will be ok.

Mirage IIIEA nose:


IAI Dagger nose:


I hope that you can find the solution, it would be great to have another Argentine Mirage in the thread.



Regards.
Carlos

Hi Gordon
If you are interested in doing a dagger then this build may be of interest

http://personal5.iddeo.es/anabelju/yuri/fedaggen.htm

I could have sworn that i have seen a 1/32 nesher/dagger conversion set, new nose etc on ebay just recently ,after this thread started but despite searching cant find it and iam not sure of the maker.
I did find a 1/32 kfir set which isnt the same shape but is similar in length i believe so could be modified easier than perhaps extending the normal nose.
I believe Revell also did an Israeli mirage v some time ago so the nose may be in the kit.

Good Luck
Peter

Howdy fellas,

As is usual...you guys have rallyed to help a fellow member Thx.

I think we have all found some of the answers about this particular question mark.
csch, your graphics illustrate very well the differences in the 'nose' of the aircraft and I'm aware of these two types from my own research, but your kindly supplied pics really bring it home.

Phantom2, many thx for your input. I tend to agree with you about the kit boxing...and from your description it sounds like there are indeed both types of 'noses' in the kit box??....If this is true, then I think the proper variant can be built from this kit. But, as you said and as I previously mentioned, the correct decals are gonna be the real pain in the bullocks...

somtec, your provided link to that online Dagger build was most helpful...thx. As to the nose I'm holding out hope that both 'noses' are included in the kit box......fingers crossed

Mucho Thx All

Tread.

Hi Gordon:

If you find the nose, I can help you with the decals. Just let me know

Howdy fellas, me again...sorry

For anyone interested, I have done some follow-up research and found out a couple of things....

Regarding the handling of this kit by Revell, I am becoming almost entirely convinced that Revell has simply reboxed the old {circa } 1973 kit of the Dassault Mirage III and included a new, more 'saucy' set of decals.

Here's the old kit box art.....



The description of the kit goes as follows:

"...1/32 H185 Revell Dassault Mirage III S / E / R / RS Swiss or French Air Forces Exc Injection Molded old

1973 kit with great box art. Can be built as Swiss 'S' fighter or 'RD' Reconnaissance or 'R' French Reconnaissance or 'E' Fighter. Features detailed cockpit with hinged canopy, four underwing fuel tanks, removable Snecma Atar 9C engine, Sidewinders, 10 bombs and pilot, moveable wheels and clear lights. Complete with all parts, decals and instructions..."

This description along with the box art leads me to believe that both aircraft 'noses' come inside the box with the same kit.
Further, if you look at the box art you can see the Swiss 'RD' or reconnaissance version in the background sporting the same nose as the reboxed "Mirage 5 Mephisto" kit is wearing.......

I've also found a paintjob I like that is both attractive, and accurate for the time period. It is one just recently done by Ricardo Dacoba....



Aside from the expected three-tone camo paint scheme, the rather dramatic bright yellow wing stripes were apparently applied specifically for the Falklands Campaign.

Whadayouguysthink?

Tread.

Of course....I've still got the hurdle of decals in 1/32 don't I?....but I could use most of the kit decals except for some of the more major items such as the Argentinian roundel and national flag. The only real problem would be the insignia, shown partially here on the tail....{you can see just the top half in the lower right-hand corner of the picture, and it is a bit blurred}



Now that would be a bit of a problem.......




EDIT: And, just to add more fodder to the Mirage model kit debate....here's a pic of a later kit {dated 1975} of the qouted as being..... " Israeli Mirage 5J or French Mirage 5F "



As you can see by the pic, the recce 'nose' is suspiciously absent from the box art......and, the Mirage '5' apparently sports a standard 'nose'

Howdy Carlos

Mucho thx for your kind offer of assistance!

Since by your bio you actually hail from Argentina, I count us all quite lucky to have your council on this Campaign.
As to help on the decals, well, any help would be appreciated of course...I was thinking of maybe finding a scan of the tail insignia I just mentioned and trying to make my own decals of it. I could also do this with your flag {promise I will treat it with respect }. That would leave the roundel, again, maybe a scan of it would suffice?
The rest of the ancillary surface decals should come with the kit. I'm assuming most of the warning decals were translated into spanish on the actual aircraft, but with luck at that scale the warnings in either english or french shouldn't be too apparent.....

Tread.

Hi
Hope these may be of some use.
My research shows that the mirage 111ea aircraft belonged to grupo 8



and carried the following badge


Daggers were flown by grupo 6 which had this badge but not all seemed to have it , maybe they were overpainted with the id stripes

cheers
peter

Hi Gordon:

The decals for the Malvinas/Falkland Mirage IIEA are from Aerocalcas, an Argentine decal manufacturer.

If you need them I can buy the set and send it to you (the cost is u$s 6.50.- for the decals plus the postage), you can send me the money via Western Union.
If you prefer to make your own decals I´ll serch good images of the badges and post them here.
Another couple of pics of Ricardo Dacoba Dagger:


The yellow bands were used but also there were blue ones.

[quote]

As is usual...you guys have rallyed to help a fellow member Thx.

[/qoute]

Hi, Gordon!

It´s just because we want to see another Mirage here!

No, seriously, that´s what these Campaigns are for, helping each other and sharing interesting facts!

Your post with the boxtops was very interesting, I had never seen the Israeli and the later boxings.
But the first one was the very one from the kit I have!

...and here she is (Please remember, this model Is over 30 years old by now and have survived numerous moves!);





As you can see, It´s the very normal "standard" nose, and the chin bulge is a seperate (optional) part.

Correct E-type canopy/intake line;



Correct engine burner can and the "fat" keel bulge;




Overall view of a rather battered beauty;



Carlos; You are a Rock for this Campaign, Amigo!

Cheers!

Stefan E

Hello everyone,
I'm glad to see all the research on the Mirage and Daggers, it really clears up much about them. He is my latest reviews for you all.

Review Westland
Sea King

This is the 1/72 Fujimi kit. The parts are packaged in four plastic bags. It’s molded in grey and clear plastic and composes 112 parts but 32 of them are not used according to the directions. On exam the parts have no flash, and are very detailed. The clear parts are thin and reasonable clarity.


The directions are printed clearly in seven steps and show parts placement in detail but do not cover any of the 32 parts already mentioned. It appears these parts are for making the anti-submarine variant which was the Sea Kings primary mission for “Operation Corporate”. However, with the loss of 3 of 4 CH-47 Chinooks on the Atlantic Conveyor and the lack of Argentine Submarine activity, many Sea Kings became transport helicopters for movement of supplies and equipment.


The fuselage detail is crisp with a mix of raised and recessed panel lines and lots of rivets which look reasonable and enhance the kits appearance. The interior lacks sidewall detail and has several pre-marked areas (Dutch version) were additional windows can be installed after removing plastic with a hobby knife or other tool. The large cargo door and several windows will show some of the interior and someone may want to simulate some form of structural detail to be viewed. The air intakes are molded separate from the fuselage and are very shallow in depth and engine exhausts are shallow and blanked over. They should be drilled out and some tubing used to increase the depth of view.



Cockpit detail is basic and no crew figures are provided. The decals are well printed and have some colorful markings, but are not applicable to “Falklands War” aircraft. There are aftermarket decals available for both Royal Navy and Argentine Navy versions.


The rotor head is nicely detailed and appears very fragile. The rotor blades are okay but do not have the droop present on aircraft at rest. From the directions it appears that maybe the rotors could be attached for shipboard storage, but the directions do not indicate such. The tail rotor is nice and well protected by its sprue, but use extreme care in removing it as the part is very thin. Landing gear detail is okay but appears small for the size of the model. Use care in handling the completed aircraft.


Overall this appears to be a great model. I did not test fit the parts but considering the overall quality and packaging of the parts I would expect this to be a straight forward build resulting in a good looking helicopter when finished. The extra parts for anti-sub mission means with a little study and thought any version could be built and since both sides used Sea Kings, aircraft color and after market decal options are available. I purchased the kit from www.luckymodel.com on sale for $7.00 and I think it was money well spent.



Review
CH-47 Chinook

This is the 1/72 Matchbox kit. On opening the box I saw a weird sight (to me anyway) of three large, one small plastic sprues with lots of parts. Each sprue is molded in a different color! There is Green, Black, Grey and Clear colors. The kit has approx. 120 parts and the plastic appears shiny and smooth (bath in dish detergent is probably in order here). The clear parts are thick and blurry.


The instructions are carried out in 25 steps and the sheet is crowed with all the things to be done. The directions are printed in Chinese and explain building three Royal Air Force versions or US Army aircraft. One great item is the kit decals, present is markings for “Bravo November” (BN) the lone surviving British Chinook in the Falklands (the other 3 were destroyed when Atlantic Conveyor was attacked and sunk). The decal quality is okay and should be usable. The directions cover the camouflage detail for the aircraft on one side only. The box art is more useful and unless you can read Chinese the paint guide is no help.


The fuselage detail is minimal and consists of raised and recessed panel lines. Interior sidewall detail was attempted by having raised lines as well but they are sparse.



There is a separate part for the floor boards and it is reasonably detailed. Then after the fuselage halves and floor board are glued together a third part, the bottom exterior of the helicopter is glue in place (I suspect there will be a major seem line to clean up). The cargo ramp has the option to be molded open or closed so depending on what you choose, interior detailing may be in order.


The cockpit actually has separate control sticks and seats. No crew is provided and the console detail is provided by using a decal from the sheet. However, the blurry clear parts will probably limit the detail that could be seen. The front cabin glass on my example has scratch marks, blemishes and two sinkholes in it. I do think with some fine grit wet sandpaper and a dip in “Future“, should improve the appearance.


Rotor detail is okay but all the rotor parts are molded in that black plastic (The same plastic Monogram uses) that the glue just does not seem to fuse very well. Use care as recall this type of plastic is very brittle as well.


The engine detail is okay but the intake screen is terrible and it would really improve the models appearance if actual screen (model railroad screen would work) was placed over the intakes verses the kit provided solid molded parts. Landing gear and wheels will look okay after assembly and painting. Again the plastic seems brittle to me.



This kit appears complex to me and will probably need extra effort to produce an acceptable level of detail. The decals are a nice surprise as I had no idea “BN” was included. Another plus is both sides used Chinooks on the Falklands and I think Model Decal or Hi Decal has markings for an Argentine version. Argentina used at least two Chinooks on the islands, one was destroyed on the ground by air attack, the second was captured by ground forces and a third was disabled torevent its use. BN survived the conflict. The kit is not expensive and I got this on Ebay for $6.00 US (the decals are worth that) and it isi still available in hobby shops as well . Even with the kit’s flaws I’m content with it.

Sincerely,
Brian

Howdy fellas,

Many thx for all the help so far {never thought I'd learn so much about the Mirage }

Thx somtec for the great closeups of the unit flashes. I think I may need something along that order if I decide to make my own decals.
I need to narrow down my 'bird' a bit more.

Your kind offer of picking up those decals for me csch is most appreciated...do those same 1/48th scale decals come in 1/32nd scale?
If so, that would solve my problem....and an additional word of thx goes out to you for both supplying additional Dacoba pics, as well as the blue striped example....the blue version is a definite possiblity to maybe build something a little different from Ricardo's wonderful creation.

And Phantom2, talk about "...It´s just because we want to see another Mirage here! ..."
Well, we obviously got us a dandy with your 'oldie but a goodie' didn't we? Very nice work...it's great to see just how good we all need to be to at least meet the 'bar'.

Nice choice in the helo there bf443. Not only do I like the choice of ship, but really admire your ability to work in the 'braille' scale there dude....really. I don't think I could if I wanted to......I suffer from old eyes, and even older and stiffer hands. So, bully for you amigo!
But, just to mention....I've had my eye on the Seasprite for representation of the British side of this disagreement.

Best of luck to all.

Tread

Hi Gordon:

Sorry, Aerocalcas only manufacture decals in 1/48 & 1/72, they aren´t available in 1/32.
If you need them in 1/48 just tell me.
Regards.
Carlos

".....Hi Gordon:

Sorry, Aerocalcas only manufacture decals in 1/48 & 1/72, they aren´t available in 1/32.
If you need them in 1/48 just tell me.
Regards.
Carlos ...."

Man...I was hoping you had a more fruitful answer than that pard'....but no worries, I had already kinda surrendered to the idea of trying to make my own decals.

Thx anyway for the thought

Tread.

Hello everyone,

Wow! Only five days until the “Falklands War” begins !
| |)

Here is some more models available for the Campaign.

Model Review
UH-1H Iroquois

We have Hasegawa UH-1H in 1/72 scale. The model is composed of approx 70 parts, molded in Grey and Clear plastic. The parts are crisp and free of flash and have a mix of raised and recessed detail all parts came sealed in three separate bags.


Exam of the fuselage shows a lot of detail pack into a small kit but the rivets seem large and may look better sanded down. The interior lacks any side wall detail like most 1/72 helicopters.


The interior parts consist of cabin floor, engine compartment and cockpit. Detail for the console is in the form of decal and two pilots figures are included. The rotors appear nice and more durable than the previous kits I looked at. The landing skid looks sturdy and should not break.


The decals are good but do not cover any machines used in the Falklands. However aftermarket decals are available for Argentine Army which were used.


There is not much to say because this is a simple kit and should go together very quickly. The overall quality is good, it is inexpensive and fills a gap for the upcoming Campaign build. I bought this kit from HobbyTown USA for $8.00 and is readily available.


Grumman S2F Tracker

Here we have the 1/72 scale Hobby Craft kit. I have heard this is a copy of the Hasegawa kit. It could be but I do not know that for sure. The kit is composed of about 55 parts in four plastic bags. All are flash free and the plastic textured is smooth.


Surface detail is very soft and non-existent on some parts (side fuselage door) that it should be present in my mind anyway. With the large parts and relatively flat surfaces, this might make a good first model for scribing panel lines.



The wings and engine nacelles have minimal detail but assembly should go fast as the parts are few. There are six non-detailed hard points under the wings and nothing to hang on them. The landing gear appear sturdy enough but I suspect a lot of weight will need to be added to keep the model level on a flat surface and that may weaken them over time.
A trick I do with 1/72 wheels is use a pin vise, drill and insert small diameter wire (paper clip end works good) and super glue on. The engine detail consists of only a single row of cylinders


The clear parts are thick but since they are small there little interior to see.


The decals are good but again not what’s needed. www.aerocalas.com has markings for both high and low visibility Trackers.


Overall I think this is unique aircraft that would be overlooked by most people. They were present on the Falklands and flying from the Argentine mainland and there lone aircraft carrier. The combination of high visibility US Navy Grey, White and Sea Blue present contrasting colors that should appeal to people. The small number of overall parts is a plus to me anyway. I bought this from www.greatmodels.com on sale for $10.50 Once built the Tracker should be an attention getter.

Sincerely,
Brian

Just a couple of days to go. I looking forward to starting my Seaharrier.

The kit comes with large air to surface missiles, dumb bombs and of course sidewinders. What kind of ordnance were used on the Seaharriers?

Sidewinders are of course a must, but what about the large air to surface missiles? Were they used?
I have of course forgot the name right now, but they are big missiles so they are probably anti ship missiles.

Hi
As far as sea harrier ordnance the weapons used during the war would have been 1000lb bombs, bl755 cluster bombs and of course sidewinders.
After the initial attacks most of the ground attack missions were left to the GR3 harriers, sea harriers also dropped the occasional bomb from high level whilst on route to a CAP more for nuisance value than anything else.
The large missiles supplied with the kit a probably Sea Eagles which were not used as they hadnt entered service at the time, however so desperate for sea harriers were the navy at the time that the sea eagle trials aircraft was hastily brought back into service.
Unfortunately this plane was shot down on a bombing raid with the loss of the pilot, the wreckage included the sea eagle instrumentation control panel, the resulting find of this is said to have helped in keeping the Argentine navy close to shore.
I dont know the real reason and dont want to offend anyone particularly our Argentine friends in the group who have been most helpful in the info they have provided so far.

My info is from two books I have been reading two books written by harrier pilots

RAF Harrier ground attack Falklands by Sqd Ldr Jerry Pook on Gr3 operations and
Hostile Skies by David Morgan on Sea harrier operations

I can recommend both books as good reads but are obviously written from a British perspective.,
I would like to read any similar books by Argentine pilots/authors to get the other side to the story as i know there are several disputed incidents, however if there are any i only read english, my other half can speak european spanish but latin american spanish seems to be to different for her to understand completely particulary technical terms. I guess what iam trying to say is i need the books to be in english.

With only a couple of days to go iam still undecided as to which plane to build first ,as currently iam building a tomcat for that build, a couple of painting related disastered have really slowed me up on that one, probably a skyhawk.

cheers
Peter

Hi Peter

Thanks for the info. You are right about the missiles. I checked the names yesterday and it is Sea Eagles. I will keep them of my Falklands bird then. I think I will go for sidewinders and drop tanks.

I am probably going for either:

an overall "extra" dark grey Sea harrier of 899 squadron from Hermes. Does anybody have any pictures of any of these aircraft? Are they supposed to be almost black?

or

an overall grey seaharrier of 809 squadron from Illustrious, even though I had the impression that Illustrious did not participate in the Falklands War? However, both the kits instructions and the colour plates from Ospreys book on the Falklands War show this aircraft.

Any help is appreciated

Hello Jesper,

The HMS Illustious was still in the ship yard being fitted when the war broke out. She missed the fight but was rushed to the Falklands after the conflict to relieve the other carriers and she stayed on station until the RAF repaired and extended the runway near Port Stanley to accomodate FGR Phantoms and after they arrived Illustrious left the Falklands.

I'll get back to you on the Sea Harrier colors tonight.

Sincerely,
Brian

Hello Jesper,

Here is an image of a 899 Harrier from the Hermes, sorry the quality is not that good.


In April of 1982 the Royal Navy ordered the white undersides of the Harriers painted the same as the top and sides (Extra Dark Sea Grey) The aircraft were brush painted and due to the quality of paint and application combined with the white background often made the Extra Dark Sea Grey appear lighter than the original paint (If you look closely you can see that in the drawing).

All pilot names and the first digit of the side codes were painted out as well. The underwing codes were also painted out except for one harrier (XZ459) The white portion of the national insignia was also painted by brush with Roundel Blue. The rear fuselage numbers were in black and four inches high.

I hope this helps you out.
Brian


Tomorrow is the BIG DAY! I will post a new "Official" Campaign topic then. Gentlemen, start your models