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Now Enlisting - Overshadowed fighters
Bink123
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 414 posts
AeroScale: 364 posts
Posted: Friday, September 20, 2013 - 11:31 AM UTC
Thinking about a campaign for WW2 fighter aircraft that are overlooked, and under appreciated. examples would be Finnish Brewster Buffaloes, Russian Airacobras, Australian CAC Boomerang, French P - 36, etc.
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Friday, September 20, 2013 - 12:08 PM UTC
Westland Whirlwind perchance?
windysean
Joined: September 11, 2009
KitMaker: 1,917 posts
AeroScale: 563 posts
Posted: Friday, September 20, 2013 - 12:35 PM UTC
I've got an obscure Red Star models Lavochkin Lagg 3 that's been waiting for a campaign! 
-Sean H
-Sean H
JPTRR
Managing Editor
#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
AeroScale: 3,175 posts
Posted: Friday, September 20, 2013 - 02:39 PM UTC
Great concept - I hope this takes off.
I have Airfix's Whirlwind and a P/E set for it. Siderius has been after me for years to build it. There are sooo many "also ran" overshadowed fighters to choose from, like the Fairey Fulmar or Firefly. Kawasaki Ki-45? Does anyone make a Bloch MB.150?
I have Airfix's Whirlwind and a P/E set for it. Siderius has been after me for years to build it. There are sooo many "also ran" overshadowed fighters to choose from, like the Fairey Fulmar or Firefly. Kawasaki Ki-45? Does anyone make a Bloch MB.150?
Bink123
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 414 posts
AeroScale: 364 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 12:39 AM UTC
Interesting that you should mention the Whirlwind.. Not being familiar with it, I looked it up in Wikipedia. It has this to say about it, quoting Francis Mason -
"A radical aircraft requires either prolonged development or widespread service to exploit its concept and eliminate its weaknesses, Too often in World War II, such aircraft suffered accelerated development or limited service, with the result that teething difficulties came to be regarded as permanent limitations."
(Mason, Francis K. Royal Air Force Fighters of World War Two, Volume One. Windsor, Berkshire, UK: Hylton Lacy Publishers Ltd., 1969.)
This could be a subtext for this GB if it gets off the ground.
"A radical aircraft requires either prolonged development or widespread service to exploit its concept and eliminate its weaknesses, Too often in World War II, such aircraft suffered accelerated development or limited service, with the result that teething difficulties came to be regarded as permanent limitations."
(Mason, Francis K. Royal Air Force Fighters of World War Two, Volume One. Windsor, Berkshire, UK: Hylton Lacy Publishers Ltd., 1969.)
This could be a subtext for this GB if it gets off the ground.
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 05:14 AM UTC
There are lots of options for this campaign besides those already mentioned:
P-63 Kingcobra
MiG-3
Boulton Paul Defiant
Blackburn Roc
Blackburn Skua
Fokker D.XXI
Aresnal VG.33
Caudron C.714
Rogožarski IK-3
PZL-11
I-15/I153 Chaika
Pe-3
And that's not counting all the prototype one-offs which were developed.
P-63 Kingcobra
MiG-3
Boulton Paul Defiant
Blackburn Roc
Blackburn Skua
Fokker D.XXI
Aresnal VG.33
Caudron C.714
Rogožarski IK-3
PZL-11
I-15/I153 Chaika
Pe-3
And that's not counting all the prototype one-offs which were developed.
ludwig113
Joined: February 05, 2008
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
AeroScale: 1,110 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 06:48 AM UTC
hmmm... how about a nice gloster gladiator ?
GaryKato
Joined: December 06, 2004
KitMaker: 3,694 posts
AeroScale: 163 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 08:35 AM UTC
P-35, P-43, P-70?
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 11:54 AM UTC
Fiat G.50, Breda 65, Reggiane Re.2000/2001/2002/2005, Fiat CR.32/42, IMAM Ro.57
(one might be forgiven for thinking of the whole Italian Air Force as being overshadowed...)
(one might be forgiven for thinking of the whole Italian Air Force as being overshadowed...)
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 09:52 PM UTC
Hi there
It sounds good to me - I'd be in, as I've always had a soft spot for lesser-known aircraft.
The way the list of suggestions for suitable entries is growing, it might be easier to simply declare what won't be allowed.
All the best
Rowan
It sounds good to me - I'd be in, as I've always had a soft spot for lesser-known aircraft.
The way the list of suggestions for suitable entries is growing, it might be easier to simply declare what won't be allowed.
All the best
Rowan
tinbanger
Joined: February 04, 2008
KitMaker: 2,507 posts
AeroScale: 1,814 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 02:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
hmmm... how about a nice gloster gladiator ?
I would be in with a gladiator!
ianclasper
Joined: September 02, 2009
KitMaker: 227 posts
AeroScale: 76 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 05:21 AM UTC
I was thinking along the same lines:
British:
Anything except Spitfire, Huricane, Mosquito, Beaufighter
German:
Anything except ME109, ME110, FW190, ME262
and so on for the other combatants.
Ian
British:
Anything except Spitfire, Huricane, Mosquito, Beaufighter
German:
Anything except ME109, ME110, FW190, ME262
and so on for the other combatants.
Ian
Quoted Text
Hi there
It sounds good to me - I'd be in, as I've always had a soft spot for lesser-known aircraft.
The way the list of suggestions for suitable entries is growing, it might be easier to simply declare what won't be allowed.
All the best
Rowan
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 05:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
British:
Anything except Spitfire, Huricane, Mosquito, Beaufighter
I think that we may want to add the Typhoon to that list. The Tempest and the Meteor would be a judgement call given that while they were produced in relatively limited numbers, they did get their share of fame. What say ye, Richard?
Bink123
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 414 posts
AeroScale: 364 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 06:20 AM UTC
Yes, those three.
As Ian and Rowan noted, it might be easier to define what wouldn't be allowed, I think we know who we mean - no Spits, Mustangs, Jugs, Me109's, FW 190's, Huricanes, Me 262's (well, borderline), P 40's, etc.
I have heard that some of the most unlikely aircraft were used as fighters because that is all there was.
As Ian and Rowan noted, it might be easier to define what wouldn't be allowed, I think we know who we mean - no Spits, Mustangs, Jugs, Me109's, FW 190's, Huricanes, Me 262's (well, borderline), P 40's, etc.
I have heard that some of the most unlikely aircraft were used as fighters because that is all there was.
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 08:45 AM UTC
This means that Hurricanes are on the menu? Or not?
Bink123
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 414 posts
AeroScale: 364 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 08:51 AM UTC
Well, I always considered the Hurricane as the Battle of Britain co-star, but you may have a point. The Spitfire is modelled far more often, and so, yes Hurricane would be considered as overshadowed.
I would include it therefore in this GB.
I personally have great respect for the Hurricane. It was well designed, the pilot had good visibility, it was tough, could land and take off in places where the Spitfire couldn't, it was a stable gun platform, and it was adaptable.
I would include it therefore in this GB.
I personally have great respect for the Hurricane. It was well designed, the pilot had good visibility, it was tough, could land and take off in places where the Spitfire couldn't, it was a stable gun platform, and it was adaptable.
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 11:11 AM UTC
Not to mention that it did the lion's share of the fighting during the battle of Britain yet the Spitfire got the media attention even as the Hurricanes were knocking bombers down all around of the reporters. Overshadowed even in its moment of glory!
There are all the little-known marking options from just before the war: Belgian and Yugoslav to name just two. And then there are the various Commonwealth uniforms it wore: Desert, Temperate Sea, Tropical, Temperate land, night, night intruder...
Hmmmm, perhaps there's enough here for a Hurricane Campaign one of these days.
There are all the little-known marking options from just before the war: Belgian and Yugoslav to name just two. And then there are the various Commonwealth uniforms it wore: Desert, Temperate Sea, Tropical, Temperate land, night, night intruder...
Hmmmm, perhaps there's enough here for a Hurricane Campaign one of these days.
ludwig113
Joined: February 05, 2008
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
AeroScale: 1,110 posts
Posted: Monday, September 23, 2013 - 03:59 AM UTC
personally i would say no to the hurricane in this campaign as it was always a major player in the airwar....
however, a Hurricane Campaign :-)
paul
however, a Hurricane Campaign :-)
paul
tinbanger
Joined: February 04, 2008
KitMaker: 2,507 posts
AeroScale: 1,814 posts
Posted: Monday, September 23, 2013 - 06:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
personally i would say no to the hurricane in this campaign as it was always a major player in the airwar....
however, a Hurricane Campaign :-)
paul
Major player:- Yes
Overshadowed:- Yes (By the Spitfire!)
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2013 - 07:11 AM UTC
Hi again
We could argue forever about whether the full-sized aircraft were overshadowed.
Basically, I think we all just want to see some builds of subjects that aren't "done to death", so perhaps it'd be better to think more in terms of aircraft (however important or otherwise they were in their own air force) that are a bit overlooked as modelling subjects.
All the best
Rowan
We could argue forever about whether the full-sized aircraft were overshadowed.
Basically, I think we all just want to see some builds of subjects that aren't "done to death", so perhaps it'd be better to think more in terms of aircraft (however important or otherwise they were in their own air force) that are a bit overlooked as modelling subjects.
All the best
Rowan
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Monday, September 23, 2013 - 08:10 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Basically, I think we all just want to see some builds of subjects that aren't "done to death", so perhaps it'd be better to think more in terms of aircraft (however important or otherwise they were in their own air force) that are a bit overlooked as modelling subjects.
I like that approach a lot! Seconded enthusiastically
tinbanger
Joined: February 04, 2008
KitMaker: 2,507 posts
AeroScale: 1,814 posts
Posted: Monday, September 23, 2013 - 10:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextBasically, I think we all just want to see some builds of subjects that aren't "done to death", so perhaps it'd be better to think more in terms of aircraft (however important or otherwise they were in their own air force) that are a bit overlooked as modelling subjects.
I like that approach a lot! Seconded enthusiastically
Anybody have a list of aircraft not allowed?
Bink123
Joined: June 23, 2008
KitMaker: 414 posts
AeroScale: 364 posts
Posted: Monday, September 23, 2013 - 11:03 AM UTC
Almost all of my model builds are biplanes. WW1 and going up to the Gladiator.
My WW2 model subjects are one P-51, two Hurricanes, one Bf 108, one Spitfire, three Gloster Gladiators, and one Fairey Swordfish. Oh and one Polikarpov I-152.
I think the list of allowed subjects be ones that are not 'iconic' WW2 fighters.
Therefore,
No Spitfires
No P-51's
No FW 190's
No Me 109's
No Me 262's
No Zeros
No P-40's
No Me 110's
Hurricanes to me are borderline.
I'm not very knowledgeable of WW2 aircraft so suggestions are welcome. Then maybe we can vote on it.
Feel free to pile on.
My WW2 model subjects are one P-51, two Hurricanes, one Bf 108, one Spitfire, three Gloster Gladiators, and one Fairey Swordfish. Oh and one Polikarpov I-152.
I think the list of allowed subjects be ones that are not 'iconic' WW2 fighters.
Therefore,
No Spitfires
No P-51's
No FW 190's
No Me 109's
No Me 262's
No Zeros
No P-40's
No Me 110's
Hurricanes to me are borderline.
I'm not very knowledgeable of WW2 aircraft so suggestions are welcome. Then maybe we can vote on it.
Feel free to pile on.
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Monday, September 23, 2013 - 11:19 AM UTC
I'd say that the P-38, P-47, Typhoon, Tempest, Meteor Yak 3, Yak 9, La 5, La 7, Ms 406 and Dewoitine 510 belong on the no-go list also.
What are your thoughts about night fighter versions of bombers? Beaufighter, Mosquito, P-70 and the line?
What are your thoughts about night fighter versions of bombers? Beaufighter, Mosquito, P-70 and the line?
tinbanger
Joined: February 04, 2008
KitMaker: 2,507 posts
AeroScale: 1,814 posts
Posted: Monday, September 23, 2013 - 01:01 PM UTC
"Overshadowed fighters"or "Overshadowed Aircraft".
This would open campaign up to a wider selection:-
Bombers.
Civil.
This would open campaign up to a wider selection:-
Bombers.
Civil.
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