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Now Enlisting - Overshadowed fighters
Jessie_C
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2013 - 01:10 PM UTC
Well they were designated as fighters after conversion, thus the question.
Bink123
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2013 - 02:58 PM UTC

In an earlier post above, 'Merlin' wrote -

"Basically, I think we all just want to see some builds of subjects that aren't "done to death", so perhaps it'd be better to think more in terms of aircraft ... that are a bit overlooked as modelling subjects."

and use this as a guiding principle.

The other general consideration would be the availability, or lack there of, of kits.

Or, to make the GB strictly for fighters, pick two fighters of each the major combatants, and exclude them. eg. Hurricane and Spitfire, P-51 and P-47, Me 109 and FW 190, and so on.

This would require participants to build, as 'Merlin' said, to build a subject that isn't 'done to death'

I thought this would be an opportunity to explore other aircraft which are not widely known, deemed to be a failure, arrived too late, and so on.










Jessie_C
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2013 - 04:19 PM UTC
I think that we're all pretty much in agreement about the concept. Any wrangling now is about eligibility of potential subjects. Rowan's "not done to death" criterion is a great guideline.

You're the campaign leader. One possible way through the problem is if you're up to it, you could be the final arbiter; the rules in this case would require participants to submit their proposed builds and agree to abide by your decision whether it's acceptable or not. Or if you think that won't work, we can work up a list of excluded subjects which have been done to death like the one we've been tossing around already.
Merlin
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#017
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2013 - 07:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I thought this would be an opportunity to explore other aircraft which are not widely known, deemed to be a failure, arrived too late, and so on.


Hi Richard

I think that's the perfect guiding principle. I'd stick to your original theme and limit the build to fighters (or aircraft modified to be fighters) and I reckon you'd have to exclude more than 2 aircraft for the US - the Navy's Corsair and Hellcat for example. Making up a "done to death" list quickly, my first thoughts were:

Luftwaffe
Bf 109
Bf 110
Fw 190
Me 262

RAF
Hurricane
Mosquito
Spitfire
Typhoon

USAAF
Mustang
Lightning
Thunderbolt
Warhawk

US Navy
Corsair
Hellcat
Wildcat

USSR
La-3 - La-5
Yak 1-9

Japan
Zero

All the best

Rowan
tinbanger
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Monday, September 23, 2013 - 10:44 PM UTC
I vote for Rowan's list
vdejarnette
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Maryland, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 02:32 AM UTC
Rowan's list looks pretty comprehensive to me. I'm in the no Hurricanes camp as I think they were too widely used during the war to be considered overshadowed.

Another borderline fighter to me would be the I-16.

Overshadowed to me would be something like the Brewster Buffalo, Seversky P-35, P-36 Hawk, or CAC Boomerang or KI-43 Hayabusa (which was usually mistaken for a Zero if I've been told correctly).
amegan
#243
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England - North East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 03:15 AM UTC
I love the idea, the US one maybe should add P-40 and P-61 and RN versions of the RAF fighters, that leaves some of my favourite aircraft, but nothing I have in the stash
Count me in.
Merlin
Staff MemberSenior Editor
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#017
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 07:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Another borderline fighter to me would be the I-16.


Hi Van

Me too - I very nearly included it in my "exclusion list". Conversely, I was also tempted to allow Allison-engined Mustangs.

My list is only intended as something to help focus thoughts.

All the best

Rowan
Bink123
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 07:59 AM UTC
I think Rowan's list is the way to go.

Regarding the P40, well it is really a Warhawk or Tomahawk anyway, so leave it out.

All Italian fighters are GB acceptable, and there were some good ones.

So, Rowan's List is official list of exclusions.


Thanks, Rowan.

md72
#439
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 08:00 AM UTC
Hmmm, I've got a P-63 and a couple of P-39's clamoring for attention. I could get interested in this...
amegan
#243
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England - North East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 08:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I think Rowan's list is the way to go.

Regarding the P40, well it is really a Warhawk or Tomahawk anyway, so leave it out.

All Italian fighters are GB acceptable, and there were some good ones.

So, Rowan's List is official list of exclusions.


Thanks, Rowan.


It's your train set
GaryKato
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California, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 11:42 AM UTC
Squadron is having a sale with some Special Hobbies aircraft that fits in this category (Fairey Fulmar, Fokker DXXI).
heavyjagdpanzer
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 12:22 PM UTC
I like the idea of” Forgotten Fighters”. I am working on a Fokker D XXI, although I have had very little time to work on it lately. Most of my kit collection consists of lesser known aircraft;
Brewster 239 Buffalo (Finnish)
Fait G50 bis
Morane Saulnier MS 406
PZL P 11c
Kawanishi N1K2 “George”
Most of these I have in 1/72 and 1/48 scale. Sign me up!
Bink123
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 01:06 PM UTC
I guess that settles it then.

On the exclusion list -


Luftwaffe
Bf 109
Bf 110
Fw 190
Me 262

RAF
Hurricane
Mosquito
Spitfire
Typhoon

USAAF
Mustang
Lightning
Thunderbolt
Warhawk

US Navy
Corsair
Hellcat
Wildcat

USSR
La-3 - La-5
Yak 1-9

Japan
Zero


I think this list leaves a large number of fighters to be included in the GB, that are not often seen featured in a Group Build.

It would be nice that part of each entry would be a short piece about the craft.
Merlin
Staff MemberSenior Editor
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#017
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 07:27 PM UTC
Hi again

This could be really fun - and a chance to see some unusual kits as well as unusual subjects.

All the best

Rowan
amegan
#243
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England - North East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 01:21 AM UTC
Yeah, and whatever it is I'll have to buy it, my WW2 stash has 2 spits, a 109 a Mossy and a 110, doh! If it had been WW1 I would have been ok. I'm still up for it though
Bink123
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 01:48 AM UTC
I have 2 kits in my stash left, since I decided to build all of them before I buy any new kits.

Ironically, one is a Spitfire and the other is an Eduard 1/48 Avia B.534 III Series.

If this GB takes off, I'll be building the Avia as one used by the Slovak state in its co-invasion of Poland with Germany in Sept. 1939.

Maybe a WW1 GB on the same theme is a good idea, but maybe focus on overshadowed pilots instead since there are not that many kits of obscure WW1 fighters.

Anyway, first things first.




ludwig113
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 01:49 AM UTC
yep count me in
Bink123
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 02:12 AM UTC
Ok, so to date, here us a list of those who have shown a definite interest and expressed that they would participate:

Heavyjagpanzer
Merlin
Amegan
Ludwig113
Bink123 (me)


Another 5 have expressed an interest, but have not committed:

md72
vdejamette
tinbanger
JPTRR
IanClasper



I'll work on the GB rules and post them here soon. They would take the form of a list of excluded aircraft, the time period (WW2), some general rules which we see normally for GB's, and the requirement for a short write up of your subject's operational history (nothing too involved) and why you think it is an 'overshadowed' fighter. Nothing too onerous.

Ciao,

windysean
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Wisconsin, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 02:37 AM UTC
I'm interested, but just want to be clear... The "La-3" is in Rowan's list of excluded aircraft. Is that my LaGG-3 (6000 produced), or did you mean the La-5 and La-7 to be in your list? Looking quickly through Scalehobbyist.com's sort function, I see that 5 manufacturers make the LaGG-3, so I'll find a different subject.
thanks,
Sean H.

edit:
Searching further, the campaign list leaves a lot of Japanese planes available from Hasegawa that are NOT the Mitsubishi A6M_ Zero. Count me in.
thanks again,
Sean H.
tinbanger
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 04:02 AM UTC
Hi Richard.
Count me in!
Bink123
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 05:17 AM UTC
Windysean -

The La-3 and the LaGG-3 are the same.

I think the La-7 could be included as GB subjects because they came into service relatively late in the war.

The La-3 to La-5 were very famous, apparently. I don't know much about Soviet WW2 fighters, I'm more familiar with WW1 fighters. But a quick referral to Wikipedia indicates that the La-7 came into service in mid 1945 or thereabouts.

Re- Japanese fighters - most people could name only one, namely, the Zero. So there are lots of subjects available.

Part of the purpose of the GB is to educate. I've already learned somethings that I didn't know, and the Gb isn't even official yet.


So, there are now 7 people committed to the GB -

Heavyjagpanzer
Merlin
Amegan
Ludwig113
Bink123 (me)
Windysean
Tinbanger
vdejarnette
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Maryland, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 05:20 AM UTC
Count me in, the trouble will be narrowing down my options.
Jessie_C
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 05:27 AM UTC
I'm very interested and definitely enthusiastic about the idea. I'll participate if my commitments allow me. I have an idea or two which stretches the boundaries a little
windysean
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Wisconsin, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 05:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Windysean -

The La-3 and the LaGG-3 are the same.

I think the La-7 could be included as GB subjects because they came into service relatively late in the war.

The La-3 to La-5 were very famous, apparently. I don't know much about Soviet WW2 fighters, I'm more familiar with WW1 fighters. But a quick referral to Wikipedia indicates that the La-7 came into service in mid 1945 or thereabouts.

Re- Japanese fighters - most people could name only one, namely, the Zero. So there are lots of subjects available.

Part of the purpose of the GB is to educate. I've already learned somethings that I didn't know, and the Gb isn't even official yet.


Thanks! I'm learning quickly here too. Good point about the La-7. I never knew much about Soviet or Japanese planes before this week, except that Hollywood tended to use T-6 Texans as Zeroes since so few of us could spot a real Zero.
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