Cold War (1950-1974)
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Academy's 1/48 scale F4B Phantom 11
eclarson
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Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 02:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text



Ernie,
Glad I saved you from the same mistake I made. I have several small parts that I'm leaving till the very end. As for those two small T fittings, I'll have to do a little more research as they're not shown on the kit instructions.
Joel



Joel,
All F-4s have the T-shaped probes inside the intakes. I don't know why manufacturers miss those as neither Hasegawa nor Academy have them in their 1/48 kits. This thread in ARC provides a couple good reference photos.

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=273597

Easy enough to scratch build, or, do what I'm doing with my F-4B - slap on a couple intake covers. :-)

Yours is coming along very nicely! I feel your pain regarding the stencil decals.

Cheers,
Eric
Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 12:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text



Ernie,
Glad I saved you from the same mistake I made. I have several small parts that I'm leaving till the very end. As for those two small T fittings, I'll have to do a little more research as they're not shown on the kit instructions.
Joel



Joel,
All F-4s have the T-shaped probes inside the intakes. I don't know why manufacturers miss those as neither Hasegawa nor Academy have them in their 1/48 kits. This thread in ARC provides a couple good reference photos.

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=273597

Easy enough to scratch build, or, do what I'm doing with my F-4B - slap on a couple intake covers. :-)

Yours is coming along very nicely! I feel your pain regarding the stencil decals.

Cheers,
Eric



Eric,
Thanks for the heads up.

I've read about those probes a few times in F4 threads. Not sure why neither manufacture includes them in their kits, other then their very small, and inside the intakes. Not sure if there is one in each intake or not. I really don't want to start drilling and gluing in them since they're painted, and access isn't all that easy. Same deal with the FOD covers. Test fitting will only scratch the paint at this point. The jet engine fans can be seen when you look into the intakes, so early on I decided not to go with FOD covers.

Joel
eclarson
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Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 01:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Eric,
Thanks for the heads up.

I've read about those probes a few times in F4 threads. Not sure why neither manufacture includes them in their kits, other then their very small, and inside the intakes. Not sure if there is one in each intake or not. I really don't want to start drilling and gluing in them since they're painted, and access isn't all that easy. Same deal with the FOD covers. Test fitting will only scratch the paint at this point. The jet engine fans can be seen when you look into the intakes, so early on I decided not to go with FOD covers.

Joel



You're welcome. There is one in each intake but as you point out, they are quite small and not easily noticed unless you know to look for them. Not really worth the risk of ruining the finish of your intakes to add at this point.

Good catch on the speed brake well colour too. I was going to make a comment on that when I saw your earlier photos with them red. All photos of operational F-4s I've seen show them white. As with most things, there may be exceptions, but you made the right choice to repaint them.

Oh, and I must make a minor correction to my one statement. Hasegawa actually does include the intake probes in their 1/48 British Phantom kits but in none of the U.S. versions. At least none that I have. Go figure. :-)


Cheers,
Eric
Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 01:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Eric,
Thanks for the heads up.

I've read about those probes a few times in F4 threads. Not sure why neither manufacture includes them in their kits, other then their very small, and inside the intakes. Not sure if there is one in each intake or not. I really don't want to start drilling and gluing in them since they're painted, and access isn't all that easy. Same deal with the FOD covers. Test fitting will only scratch the paint at this point. The jet engine fans can be seen when you look into the intakes, so early on I decided not to go with FOD covers.

Joel



You're welcome. There is one in each intake but as you point out, they are quite small and not easily noticed unless you know to look for them. Not really worth the risk of ruining the finish of your intakes to add at this point.

Good catch on the speed brake well colour too. I was going to make a comment on that when I saw your earlier photos with them red. All photos of operational F-4s I've seen show them white. As with most things, there may be exceptions, but you made the right choice to repaint them.

Oh, and I must make a minor correction to my one statement. Hasegawa actually does include the intake probes in their 1/48 British Phantom kits but in none of the U.S. versions. At least none that I have. Go figure. :-)


Cheers,
Eric



Eric,
Sure wish you would have pointed those probes out earlier. I would have taken a shot at scratching them out. Like I said, I'm just too chicken to take a pin to make a starter hole, then a drill to those painted intakes. I have absolutely no luck, and for sure would have screwed one up, maybe both ;-)

Funny thing about the drive brake recesses, I had pictures of the correct coloring and never made the connection till the error was pointed out to me. I just checked the instructions, and sure enough I wrote a quick note to myself that the call out for silver was wrong, and go with red. Silver is wrong, but Aluminum was a legit option. It was a 10 min fix.

Joel

eclarson
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Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 04:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Eric,
Sure wish you would have pointed those probes out earlier. I would have taken a shot at scratching them out. Like I said, I'm just too chicken to take a pin to make a starter hole, then a drill to those painted intakes. I have absolutely no luck, and for sure would have screwed one up, maybe both ;-)

Funny thing about the drive brake recesses, I had pictures of the correct coloring and never made the connection till the error was pointed out to me. I just checked the instructions, and sure enough I wrote a quick note to myself that the call out for silver was wrong, and go with red. Silver is wrong, but Aluminum was a legit option. It was a 10 min fix.

Joel




OK, let me toss an idea at you. I wouldn't worry about starter holes. If I were going to add the probes, I'd make them using thin styrene strip as the support and attach with a bit of PVA (white) glue. As they are just inside the intake, the location is easily reached with tweezers. You don't need much strength as being inside there's no danger of bumping. Are you familiar with Gator Grip glue? That would be perfect for this situation.

Hold the model on its side so the probe is installed upright, put a dab of glue on the support edge, and gently put it in place. Allow the glue to set and repeat on the other side. Don't worry about the exact location. Just eyeball it as best you can from the photos.

Using PVA glue, if you mess up, you can clean up with water and it won't harm the finish.

I hope that makes sense.

Cheers,
Eric

Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 - 04:29 AM UTC
[quote
OK, let me toss an idea at you. I wouldn't worry about starter holes. If I were going to add the probes, I'd make them using thin styrene strip as the support and attach with a bit of PVA (white) glue. As they are just inside the intake, the location is easily reached with tweezers. You don't need much strength as being inside there's no danger of bumping. Are you familiar with Gator Grip glue? That would be perfect for this situation.

Hold the model on its side so the probe is installed upright, put a dab of glue on the support edge, and gently put it in place. Allow the glue to set and repeat on the other side. Don't worry about the exact location. Just eyeball it as best you can from the photos.

Using PVA glue, if you mess up, you can clean up with water and it won't harm the finish.

I hope that makes sense.

Cheers,
Eric

[/quote]

Eric,
I have several types of PVA glue. Aleen's Original Tacky glue being the quickest and strongest bond of all of them. Just might try it. Only thing I have to loose is a hour or two of time. Will leave it to the end with the rest of the little details.

Joel
plastickjunkie
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Posted: Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 05:28 AM UTC
[quote][quote]
Quoted Text


Eric,
Sure wish you would have pointed those probes out earlier. Joel




I asked about the probes on page two of this thread but no one replied. and yes Aleene's Tacky Glue works on this fix.
eclarson
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Ohio, United States
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Posted: Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 05:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text



I asked about the probes on page two of this thread but no one replied. and yes Aleene's Tacky Glue works on this fix.



Sorry Ernie, I did see your post a couple days ago but was a little slow on the draw getting a reply out. Joel's mention of them again jogged my memory.

Cheers,
Eric
plastickjunkie
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Posted: Thursday, May 08, 2014 - 06:25 AM UTC
No worries Eric, figured it was missed. I love using Aleene's because it's very tacky and super strong, specially for certain pe applications.
berndm
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Posted: Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 04:07 AM UTC
Hi Joel
Awesome built !Great spook !This one is waiting for me too!

Bernd
chris1
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Posted: Saturday, May 10, 2014 - 08:09 AM UTC
Hey Joel,
You must be pretty close to completion.
Any planes to do Academys F4-C...?

Chris
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 04:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Joel
Awesome built !Great spook !This one is waiting for me too!

Bernd



Bernd,
It's a great build. The kit will be a joy to build. It just seems to take forever compared to my usual WW11 builds.
Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 04:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey Joel,
You must be pretty close to completion.
Any planes to do Academys F4-C...?

Chris



Chris,
I'm closer to the end then the start, but I've got a long way to go. Just finished up the weathering except for the exhaust areas. Will be posting some pictures in a day or two. Just started the loads. They're like little mini kits. Will be doing some detailing on them as well. Haven't even started the gear, or gear doors yet. I really hope to be done by the end of the month.

Then take off June or tinker with the Special Hobby's 1/48 F2A-3 Buffalo, and then finally the Grumman Campaign begins :7/1 !!

As for doing Academy's F4C, I'm sure hoping to by the end of the year to get started on it. For some strange reason I've been fascinated with F4s, even though I grew up 20 min from Grumman's main gate in Bethpage, NY. You would think that I would feel that way about the F14 Tomcat.

Next Jets up will be The Kitty Hawk 1/48 Cougars: the TF-9J 2 seat trainer, and the F9F-8 fighter. Whichever one comes out soon enough for the Grumman campaign, will be my main build.

Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 11:06 AM UTC
Time for another small update.

I finished all the weathering except for the landing gear, gear doors, and loads, as I haven't painted any of them as yet. I'm trying to weather the F4B as an operational aircraft that's been exposed to the harsh conditions aboard a carrier out at sea.

I wanted to darken the panel lines on top, so I used a 50/50 mixture of Flory dark and light washes applied over all the panel lines, then when dry I carefully rubbed all of it off. The result was besides the panel lines was a slight darkening of the surfaces on either side of the panel lines.

I wanted to fade the top Light Gull Gray using a mix of white added to the basic Tamiya Lt. Gull Gray mix that was thinned with their Lacquer thinner. I usually thin Tamiya acrylics 1:1, but for this application I thinned it 1:2 paint to LC. I also decreased the flow air pressure to 10 psi. I then used a same mix, but added some Dark Nato Black to add a little more blotchy contrast to the top side surfaces.









For the bottom of the fuselage I wanted to have more of a black, oily, greasy, dirt effect. So I started off with a heavy coat of Flory's dark wash. Then did a 2nd application of it, but not rubbing all of it off.



The next step was an overall light airbrushed wash of very light gray to help blend the topside together, and to reduce the start effect I had on the bottom.

I noticed in many pictures of operational F4s, & F14s, that there was major discoloration of the black anti glare panel, and anything stark black, so I gave those areas a blotchy coat of the wash, then a blending coat.

There should be a more subdued looked to the overall paint once I Dullcoat it. Right now there is just paint and washes.

Joel

Dragon164
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Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 12:05 PM UTC
Nice!

Joel, you have done a great job makes me want to get to one of mine.

Cheers Rob.
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 12:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Nice!

Joel, you have done a great job makes me want to get to one of mine.

Cheers Rob.



Rob,
Thanks so much for those kind words. You'll find the kit a dream to build right out of the box.
Joel
Lucky13
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Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 07:21 PM UTC
What a beauty! One of my favourites, the other being the VF-51 Screaming Eagles....
berndm
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Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 07:47 PM UTC
Hi Joel
Absolutely great built !It is good to see, that the undercarriage can be assembled later in the built.It is a pleasure to follow your built.
I hope i get mine startet this year.
It will be more or less out of the box, with pilots in and
decals from Vagabond Decals ( VF-84 Jolly Rogers ) and a
Airwaves canopy set.
Will you use the wingtanks ? I have read ( Daco "Uncovering the US Navy F-4 B/J/N/S") they were seldom used on carrier op`s

Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, May 12, 2014 - 01:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

What a beauty! One of my favourites, the other being the VF-51 Screaming Eagles....



Jan,
Thank you for those most kind words.

The VF-51 Screaming Eagles is my all time #1 favorite F4 paint scheme, with the Sundowners right behind them. The only trouble is I couldn't find any decal company that sill had those markings on a available sheet.

Just one question for you. You're from Scotland, and a aviation modeler, yet your avatar is of a fallen flag American Railroad. Don't think I've come across another railroad avatar on a modeling site before.

Joel
eclarson
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Posted: Monday, May 12, 2014 - 01:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Joel
..It is good to see, that the undercarriage can be assembled later in the built...



Excuse me for butting in but you (and Joel if he hasn't figured it out yet) should know that yes, the main undercarriage can be assembled later but not without surgery to the struts. They will not fit as is. You'll need to cut off one of the horizontal braces,install the gear leg, then install the brace you removed. I hope that makes sense but if not, it will become clear when you try it.

Cheers,
Eric
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, May 12, 2014 - 01:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Joel
Absolutely great built !It is good to see, that the undercarriage can be assembled later in the built.It is a pleasure to follow your built.
I hope i get mine startet this year.
It will be more or less out of the box, with pilots in and
decals from Vagabond Decals ( VF-84 Jolly Rogers ) and a
Airwaves canopy set.
Will you use the wingtanks ? I have read ( Daco "Uncovering the US Navy F-4 B/J/N/S") they were seldom used on carrier op`s




Bernd,
Thanks so much for you most positive comments.

With WW11 props, I usually glue on the gear prior to painting, but with this build, my 1st jet, that it would be much easier to paint and decal/stencil without gear, gear doors, pylons, and loads out. The main gear looks easy enough to install in the final few stages, but the nose gear looks like it may have an issue or two. I've seen other builds where the gear was left off, so I know that it can be done.

As for the two 370 gallon wing tanks, they were almost never used for carrier ops. From what I can tell they used them mostly for longer flights to and from the carrier/land Naval bases. The instructions has 4 weapons load out diagrams, and 3 have the option to use the wing tanks. None of which I'm planning on using.

My loads out will be:
600 gallon Centerline gas tank
4 fuselage mounted AIM-7D/E Sparrows
Wing triple ejector racks (TER)
Each TER will have:
Two AIM-9B Sidewinders
Three Mk.82 bombs (Slicks)

I like your choice of markings for your up coming build, the Skull & Bones of the VF-84 Jolly Rogers. At the rate I'm going, I'll still be building my F4B when you start yours.

Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, May 12, 2014 - 01:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hi Joel
..It is good to see, that the undercarriage can be assembled later in the built...



Excuse me for butting in but you (and Joel if he hasn't figured it out yet) should know that yes, the main undercarriage can be assembled later but not without surgery to the struts. They will not fit as is. You'll need to cut off one of the horizontal braces,install the gear leg, then install the brace you removed. I hope that makes sense but if not, it will become clear when you try it.

Cheers,
Eric



Eric,
Thanks for that info. I had a feeling that a little surgery was going to be needed. The instructions have you glue up the main gear when you're building the wheel wells, so I figured something would have to be modified. Like I said, I've seen enough builds with the gear left off till the end, to feel confident enough to get the job done. Honestly, I guess you can build the F4 with the gear on, but odds are I would have banged it enough to have done damage one way or the other.

Joel
eclarson
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Ohio, United States
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Posted: Monday, May 12, 2014 - 03:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Eric,
Thanks for that info. I had a feeling that a little surgery was going to be needed. The instructions have you glue up the main gear when you're building the wheel wells, so I figured something would have to be modified. Like I said, I've seen enough builds with the gear left off till the end, to feel confident enough to get the job done. Honestly, I guess you can build the F4 with the gear on, but odds are I would have banged it enough to have done damage one way or the other.

Joel



You're welcome. Yup, as soon as I saw the instruction's assembly sequence I figured that was a guarantee for one or two broken gear legs. I've seen one on-line build where the guy installed the gear per the instructions and sure enough, in later photos one of the legs was missing. Also, you mentioned concern of possible issues with the nose gear but I had no problems installing it later.

Keep up the good work!

Cheers,
Eric
thegirl
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Posted: Monday, May 12, 2014 - 12:13 PM UTC
Your weathering is improving Joel , excellent job !




Terri
berndm
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Posted: Monday, May 12, 2014 - 05:34 PM UTC
Hi
on my last Jet, a Revell F-15E, i performed on the front wheelstrut as expected !
So on this kit,there is a way to find for me!
The ordnance list sounds very good !

Bernd