Cold War (1950-1974)
Discuss the aircraft modeling subjects during the Cold War period.
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Academy's 1/48 scale F4B Phantom 11
Holdfast
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Posted: Monday, May 12, 2014 - 06:44 PM UTC
Very nicely done Joel, this is going to look stunning when complete
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 - 02:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Very nicely done Joel, this is going to look stunning when complete



Thanks Mal for the vote of confidence. At the rate I'm going just getting to the finish line will be a victory in itself.

Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 - 12:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Your weathering is improving Joel , excellent job !

Terri



Terri,
Don't know how I missed your post. And thanks for vote of confidence.

I'm continuing to refine and define how I want to weather Naval aircraft. I'm not there yet, but I'm getting closer. I'm at the point where I can now airbrush on a darker shade, and a lighter shade of the base coat, that gets a more varied and less consistent look to the shading and fading then what I always ended up with when I used pre-shading.

Joel
thegirl
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Posted: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 - 11:18 AM UTC
Per-shading can be hard for some folks . Posting shading with the air brush I just don't like so for me it's the pastels chalks or pigments .


Glad to hear that you are enjoying working with the post shading and trying out different methods .


So how goes rest of the decaling ?




Terri
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Posted: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 - 11:44 AM UTC
Joel, another lovely piece from your workshop. I really enjoy these NAVY birds your building. Please keep posting WIP pictures!

Kind regards, Sven.
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, May 25, 2014 - 01:07 PM UTC
Finally, I've started working on the stations and the loads out.

The 600 gallon centerline gas tank has been painted. Didn't bother taking a picture of a unweathered white tank with a white background.

The 4 fuselage stations will each have one AIM-7D/E Sparrow missile



The inner stations will be TERs (triple ejector racks), that each will have 2 AIM-9B Sidewinders.



and 3 Mk.82 bombs. I tried to vary to consistency of the paint by going heavier and lighter in areas to start the weathering process.



the outer stations will just be empty racks as the Navy F-4Bs rarely carried those 370 gallon wing tanks.



I still have to decal all six of the Mk.82 bombs. Then everything will get sealed with another coat of Pledge. Then the weathering will commence with a combination of washes and pastel chalks.

Slowly getting to the finish line. Still can't quite see it, but I now know it's there.

Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, May 26, 2014 - 01:58 AM UTC
As an observation from looking at my posted pictures, and some feedback from my brother Peter, the AIM-9B Sidewinder missile looks like it has some serious issues with the graininess of the Tamiya Flat Aluminum nose section. The issue is really the extreme, greater then life like magnification. Up close and personal, it's basically smooth. Although, the learned lessen is just to use Alcad 11 for all NMFs no matter how small the job is.
Joel
eclarson
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Posted: Monday, May 26, 2014 - 02:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

As an observation from looking at my posted pictures, and some feedback from my brother Peter, the AIM-9B Sidewinder missile looks like it has some serious issues with the graininess of the Tamiya Flat Aluminum nose section. The issue is really the extreme, greater then life like magnification. Up close and personal, it's basically smooth. Although, the learned lessen is just to use Alcad 11 for all NMFs no matter how small the job is.
Joel



Hi Joel,
For small brush painted metal areas I highly recommend Citadel water-based metallic paints. They're marketed to fantasy gamers and figure builders so have some odd names but they are superb paints. I get mine on line from Games Workshop.

http://www.games-workshop.com

They airbrush well too, thinned a little with distilled water.

Cheers,
Eric
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, May 26, 2014 - 04:04 AM UTC
[quote
Hi Joel,
For small brush painted metal areas I highly recommend Citadel water-based metallic paints. They're marketed to fantasy gamers and figure builders so have some odd names but they are superb paints. I get mine on line from Games Workshop.

http://www.games-workshop.com

They airbrush well too, thinned a little with distilled water.

Cheers,
Eric[/quote]

Eric,
Thanks for the information. I've used Citadel paints once and really liked them for hand brushing. They're just very difficult to find. I checked out the site you sent the link to, and the issue is that for orders under $16, the min shipping is $9.

Like I said, under normal viewing, there is almost no grain effect.

Joel
outlaws
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Posted: Monday, May 26, 2014 - 04:10 AM UTC
Also, the nose cone of the Sparrow missile should be either white or cream/tan in color.
I really like the weathering on the F4, my all time favorite aircraft!
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, May 26, 2014 - 09:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Also, the nose cone of the Sparrow missile should be either white or cream/tan in color.
I really like the weathering on the F4, my all time favorite aircraft!



Kevin,
Thanks for the positive comment on the weathering. As for the nose cone on the Sparrows, they were actually painted a dark tan, but as usual there is a color shift that I didn't try to fix.

Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, May 26, 2014 - 09:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Joel, another lovely piece from your workshop. I really enjoy these NAVY birds your building. Please keep posting WIP pictures!

Kind regards, Sven.



Sven,
Thank you, and I intend to keep on posting my work till it's finally done. Getting closer to the finish line every day.
Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, May 26, 2014 - 09:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Per-shading can be hard for some folks . Posting shading with the air brush I just don't like so for me it's the pastels chalks or pigments .


Glad to hear that you are enjoying working with the post shading and trying out different methods .


So how goes rest of the decaling ?

Terri



Terri,
You nailed it for sure. I just never seem to get it right. Either the pre-shading disappears, or it's just too heavy and symmetrical. I'm much more comfortable with post shading, and getting better with each build.

As for decaling, I'm officially finished as of 4pm today.

Joel
thegirl
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Posted: Monday, May 26, 2014 - 02:17 PM UTC
Finish line is closer than you think Joel , marvelous work so far on this project . My hat off to you for sticking to it :-I stay away from Tamiya's metal colours for that very reason . Just to grainy . Either Alclad or Mr. colour or even Model Master Metalizers .

Looking forward on the next up-date !





Terri
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 - 12:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Finish line is closer than you think Joel , marvelous work so far on this project . My hat off to you for sticking to it :-I stay away from Tamiya's metal colours for that very reason . Just to grainy . Either Alclad or Mr. colour or even Model Master Metalizers .

Looking forward on the next up-date !

Terri



Terri,
I completely agree. I even have a bottle of Model Master Aluminum Acrylic paint Fortunately, viewed in 1:1 size you can hardly notice the grainy issue. Both bottle of Tamiya Flat Aluminum and Silver and now headed to the local landfill.

As for sticking to it, the build is vastly different then my usual prop build. I know I'm going to enjoy the next jet build simply because I'll be better prepared.

Joel
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Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 - 09:27 AM UTC
Awesome work Joel, been following with a lot of interest.
I've promised myself one of these for my birthday. I don't often do 1/48 but I'd be a fool not to get one and I love those early Navy schemes.
Redhand
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Posted: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 - 09:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

While by no means does it comes close to the amount of wiring and plumbing in the actual aircraft, it does busy up the wheel well to a satisfactory level.



Your subject matter (WWII props) is on a par with mine, so I will follow this diversion with interest. I quite agree one can never fully replicate all the detail on the real thing. I'm trying to figure out myself how much to "busy-up" the B-17 bomb bay.

I will get up to speed on this and follow with interest.
Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 - 02:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

While by no means does it comes close to the amount of wiring and plumbing in the actual aircraft, it does busy up the wheel well to a satisfactory level.



Your subject matter (WWII props) is on a par with mine, so I will follow this diversion with interest. I quite agree one can never fully replicate all the detail on the real thing. I'm trying to figure out myself how much to "busy-up" the B-17 bomb bay.

I will get up to speed on this and follow with interest.



Brian,
Thanks for taking the time to look and follow my build.

I spent considerable time detailing the front gear well, and a lot less time in the main wells. Since my models are only for personal display, and on two forums, it doesn't really make all that much sense to me to go overboard detailing areas that won't be seen in the final pictures. I really don't like turning over a finished model as I always manage to damage or break something.

I spent a great deal of time adding details to the cockpit which can be easily seen. I do prefer to add bits and pieces when ever possible, rather then just adding AM resin substitutes.

Your build is a lot more detailed and accurate then what I've attempted. The amount of time you spent on research clearly indicates what you want to achieve with the B-17. Just your cockpit corrections, and detailing proves that. As for the level of detailing the Bombay, I would think that you would want to attain the same level as you set for the interior.

Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 - 03:59 AM UTC
I finally finished weathering the stations and the out loads. I must say that the Academy parts really fit like a glove making the inner stations very easy to assembly and weather.





And here's one of the outer stations:



I also finished installing the gear doors flaps on one side. Then I glued up the two stations.



Hopefully I'll be finishing the other side tomorrow.

Joel


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Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 - 05:16 AM UTC
This is looking really good Joel, I've been following in the background and taking notes for when I get around to build mine.

I'm now at the point of trying to decide if I need to buy two more or just leave it at one, my problem is I like the VF-111 markings however I'm a VF-101 fan so even though the markings would be bland (for that time, unlike their F-14's) I have got to do one and the last problem is I want to do a US Navy F-4G (not the USAF wild weasel).

Although you have already sorted the metallic paint issue on the AIM-9's, I can recommend Revell Aqua color metallic range. I've used them to good effect on 1/144 with no grain or brush marks/problems.
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2014 - 01:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This is looking really good Joel, I've been following in the background and taking notes for when I get around to build mine.

I'm now at the point of trying to decide if I need to buy two more or just leave it at one, my problem is I like the VF-111 markings however I'm a VF-101 fan so even though the markings would be bland (for that time, unlike their F-14's) I have got to do one and the last problem is I want to do a US Navy F-4G (not the USAF wild weasel).

Although you have already sorted the metallic paint issue on the AIM-9's, I can recommend Revell Aqua color metallic range. I've used them to good effect on 1/144 with no grain or brush marks/problems.



Luciano,

Thanks so much for your most kind words.

I'm no expert by any means on F4's, so I can't advise you on the feasibilities of converting this kit or their F-4C to a G. I do know that there is a difference in the thickness of the wings, the Stabilators are non-slatted, but they come in the kit, and the nose is drastically different. There could very well be minor/major differences in the cockpit including the ejection seats. With that said, I'd be somewhat optimistic that Academy plans on releasing more versions of the 'Toon.

As for paints, I've heard nothing but great things about the Revell Aqua line of paints. Unfortunately, the My local LHS, and the two OHS I deal with don't carry them.

For what it's worth, I plan on building the F-4C this year, and all Academy's future F-4 releases. Hopefully, Eduard will continue to make their AM sets for them.

Joel

eclarson
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Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2014 - 03:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This is looking really good Joel, I've been following in the background and taking notes for when I get around to build mine.

I'm now at the point of trying to decide if I need to buy two more or just leave it at one, my problem is I like the VF-111 markings however I'm a VF-101 fan so even though the markings would be bland (for that time, unlike their F-14's) I have got to do one and the last problem is I want to do a US Navy F-4G (not the USAF wild weasel).

Although you have already sorted the metallic paint issue on the AIM-9's, I can recommend Revell Aqua color metallic range. I've used them to good effect on 1/144 with no grain or brush marks/problems.



Hi Luciano,
According to this site, the Navy F-4Gs were converted from F-4Bs in the early 1960s and eventually converted back in 1967.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:F-4G_Phantom_II_%28US_Navy_version%29

That said, you should have no problem building a Navy F-4G from the Academy kit as the early style radome pod and fin cap are included. You'll also need to exclude the various lumps, bumps, and antennas indicated in the instructions as the kit subject is a later F-4B.

HTH

Cheers,
Eric

P.S. You'll also want to use Martin Baker Mk H5 seats since the kit parts, simplistic as they are, represent the Mk H7. I highly recommend the H5s from Hypersonic Models.
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2014 - 04:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Hi Luciano,
According to this site, the Navy F-4Gs were converted from F-4Bs in the early 1960s and eventually converted back in 1967.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:F-4G_Phantom_II_%28US_Navy_version%29

That said, you should have no problem building a Navy F-4G from the Academy kit as the early style radome pod and fin cap are included. You'll also need to exclude the various lumps, bumps, and antennas indicated in the instructions as the kit subject is a later F-4B.

HTH

Cheers,
Eric

P.S. You'll also want to use Martin Baker Mk H5 seats since the kit parts, simplistic as they are, represent the Mk H7. I highly recommend the H5s from Hypersonic Models.



Eric,
I checked out your link. "The U.S. Navy converted 12 F-4Bs in 1964 and fitted them with the AN/ASW-12 two-way datalink communication system and an approach power compensator which, coupled with the shipboard AN/SPN-10 radar and AN/USC-1 datalink allowed hands-off carrier landings. One was lost, the other were later rebuilt as F-4Bs in 1967. The "F-4G" designation was later again used for U.S. Air Force "Wild Weasel" conversions of F-4Es"

I did a few Google searches and found this information:

"The F-4G entered service to replace the F-105F/G "Wild Weasel" Thunderchief (which replaced the F-100F "Wild Weasel" Super Sabre). Most of the F-4Gs in service were conversions of old USAF F-4E airframes (some of which had seen service in Vietnam). The conversion involved the removal of the gun for the installation of the AN/APR-38 radar warning and homing receiver which has 52 antennas in the airframe".

So there seems to have been two different F4 variants of the G converted from two completely different airframes.

Luciano will have to do some additional research to see exactly which F-4G type he's looking to model.

Joel

eclarson
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Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2014 - 04:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Eric,
I checked out your link. "The U.S. Navy converted 12 F-4Bs in 1964 and fitted them with the AN/ASW-12 two-way datalink communication system and an approach power compensator which, coupled with the shipboard AN/SPN-10 radar and AN/USC-1 datalink allowed hands-off carrier landings. One was lost, the other were later rebuilt as F-4Bs in 1967. The "F-4G" designation was later again used for U.S. Air Force "Wild Weasel" conversions of F-4Es"

I did a few Google searches and found this information:

"The F-4G entered service to replace the F-105F/G "Wild Weasel" Thunderchief (which replaced the F-100F "Wild Weasel" Super Sabre). Most of the F-4Gs in service were conversions of old USAF F-4E airframes (some of which had seen service in Vietnam). The conversion involved the removal of the gun for the installation of the AN/APR-38 radar warning and homing receiver which has 52 antennas in the airframe".

So there seems to have been two different F4 variants of the G converted from two completely different airframes.

Luciano will have to do some additional research to see exactly which F-4G type he's looking to model.

Joel




I think he's got it covered. He mentioned in his prior post he wanted to do the Navy F-4G, not the USAF Wild Weasel variant, which is the one most people think of when hearing "F-4G".

Yup, you're not going to get to a USAF F-4G from an F-4B! On the other hand, Hasegawa did a proper USAF 1/48 F-4G in their Phantom family which is excellent.

Cheers,
Eric
Littorio
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Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2014 - 05:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Eric,
I checked out your link. "The U.S. Navy converted 12 F-4Bs in 1964 and fitted them with the AN/ASW-12 two-way datalink communication system and an approach power compensator which, coupled with the shipboard AN/SPN-10 radar and AN/USC-1 datalink allowed hands-off carrier landings. One was lost, the other were later rebuilt as F-4Bs in 1967. The "F-4G" designation was later again used for U.S. Air Force "Wild Weasel" conversions of F-4Es"

I did a few Google searches and found this information:

"The F-4G entered service to replace the F-105F/G "Wild Weasel" Thunderchief (which replaced the F-100F "Wild Weasel" Super Sabre). Most of the F-4Gs in service were conversions of old USAF F-4E airframes (some of which had seen service in Vietnam). The conversion involved the removal of the gun for the installation of the AN/APR-38 radar warning and homing receiver which has 52 antennas in the airframe".

So there seems to have been two different F4 variants of the G converted from two completely different airframes.

Luciano will have to do some additional research to see exactly which F-4G type he's looking to model.

Joel




I think he's got it covered. He mentioned in his prior post he wanted to do the Navy F-4G, not the USAF Wild Weasel variant, which is the one most people think of when hearing "F-4G".

Yup, you're not going to get to a USAF F-4G from an F-4B! On the other hand, Hasegawa did a proper USAF 1/48 F-4G in their Phantom family which is excellent.

Cheers,
Eric



Yep Eric your right, I had already done some research and knew the Navy F-4G was derived from the F-4B, Kitsworld do a set of decals for two machines one VF-213 and the other VF-121. Just be so different to have a 'green' Navy F-4.

Joel sorry to have taken this of topic.