TAIL DETAIL [UPDATED]

Just a couple of pictures to show that work is continuing on the tail compartment. First up is the starboard side.



You can see that I added an oxygen bottle and an ammo box up forward to obscure the box over the tail wheel aperture. I do plan to add some details to the interior of the box to make it appear more realistic.

And here is the port side.



The tail armor plate at the rear of the compartment required a lot of work to get in. No way can you simply glue it up against the aperture at the top rear of the gunner's station. Happily, there is no interference with the ammunition trays running to the guns. However, I see no need to put the rear of the guns in because that will be absolutely invisible once the space is buttoned up.

[I thought I would add this pic to show where the tail guns actually were in the F-model]



I have to put in the bicycle seat, heater, communications, and oxygen stations, and frankly that will be all in the tail. The only things left then prior to gluing the fuselage together will be some cleanup work in the bomb bay, the cockpit, and the nose, including installation of the two cheek guns.

I am planning a trip to North Carolina to meet my modeling friend and the fuselage should be joined together, with the radio room roof and the pilots' compartment roof installed, before the end of the year!

Brian,
The tail area detail is coming along quite well. The covering up of the tail wheel housing looks more then adequate with just those two details.

The end of the year isn't so long for those of us that have been following right from the beginning. For a while there, I was starting to wonder if the LL's fuselage would ever get closed up. But a 6 month build is now my new limit, you're well into 3 years. Needless to say I can't wait to wish you happy new year.

Joel

Thank you Joel! because of my work schedule, and slow pace of work modeling, I think my average build time is about eight months to a year. Sometimes less depending on the complexity of the kit. One thing I can promise you is that I will never, I hope, do as lengthy a build as this again! But it will feel good to get it buttoned up. Then I can start treating it like a real model.

Brian,
We'll see if the calling ever comes again.

Aren't you planning on detailing the well wheels, engines, and landing gear?
Joel

Yes.

That is looking great Brian and it looks far better than the resin bits I have. Keep plugging away, the end (literally and figuratively) is in sight!!!

Ya know, Karl, it means a lot coming from you. Thank you so much. I literally couldn't have done it without you.

Nice going Brian, you're nearly there with the interior !
I can't recall if you mentioned it when doing the formers/stringers but I assume that the starboard side is bare because you'll literally not see it ?

Exactly. I suppose I could run stringers there but, literally, one will not be able to see them. The tail gunner glass there affords very little visibility.

TAIL DONE: NOW FOR SOME CLEANUP ITEMS AND GUNS!

It seems hard to believe, but I have finally "finished" the interior. I will show you the tail as finished and then discuss the cleanup items and the handheld guns that I'm going to use.

Here is the stbd. side.



I personally like the seatbelts, which were intended to swivel forward and be connected over the gunner's lap.

Here is the port side.



I'm not sweating the minor blemishes: the view through the tail gunner's glass will be, at best, impressionistic and this more than gets the job done.

Now on to what still needs to be done before I close this up.

First, there is a bomb bay door actuator that I have to reinstall on one of the bulkheads. Happily I somehow managed to have a spare which will go in there.

I also need to put some styrene strip along the bottom of the catwalk.

Next, there is a bottle which I have to re-glue into the cockpit section adjacent to the top turret. I suppose all the detail there raises the question whether I should simply hand place the top turret into the aperture so that if one lifts it out and looks inside more of this can be seen. I probably will, but it will depend on how solid the non-glued fit is for that subassembly.

In the nose I have to reinstall the starboard after most window curtain.

Then there are the handguns for the nose and elsewhere. After searching eBay I came up with a second issue of these complex handheld guns available from Aries (same but grey resin, silver looking metal). They will give me the the number of guns I need.

You will see that the brass parts make each of these guns almost a kit in and of itself. I will use them for the three guns in the nose, the radio room gun, and the waist guns. However all will have Karaya metal barrels rather than the resin ones pictured here.



My current plans for getting together with my North Carolina friend, barring unforeseen circumstances, have me driving down there around December 15. This will give me sufficient time to do the cleanup items and invest the necessary time on the handheld guns. For the present I'm probably just going to do the cheek guns in the nose and save the rest for "final construction."

What I hope we will accomplish in North Carolina is as follows.

First, get the fuselage halves together!

Second, install the radio room roof and feather it in so that it appears "seamless." This is probably the one thing in the whole build that I am the most paranoid about.

Third, install the pilots' roof. Here we have to make some decisions about the main cockpit windows. My inclination is to use the Edward brass framework rather than kit parts, with clear styrene windows. This would allow us to position both the pilot's and the co-pilot's windows open to allow a better view into the interior of the cockpit. However, this job will be fiddly.

Fourth, install the ring around the nose that has the rivets showing so that there is an attractive view of the edge of the nose opening looking in through the "Plexiglas."

Fifth, install other fuselage windows. These will include the ones in the roof above the nose, and the two radio room windows. This will also be a bit of a challenge but it has to be done.

Finally, I hope to leave with a fully primed fuselage ready to paint in final colors. This will require not only filling the seams in the fuselage halves themselves but also cleaning up some areas of the exterior fuselage where I have smeared glue, obliterated panel lines, etc.

So far as reinstalling panel lines is concerned, even though the kits lines are raised, I will probably scribe the missing panel lines in rather than duplicate the raised lines. Candidly, I've done this on some other kits and in my view (literally!) it's really difficult to see where the panel line is "raised," and where it is cut. One must look really closely to see this.

So, let me close with with the observation that I still have plenty of work "cut out for me".

On the subject of "I personally like the seatbelts" in your previous post Brian: I personally like everything you've done !

Must be kind of a strange feeling closing this one up? Could you please promise me that you do one final check that everything is solidly glued before closing the fuselage so you don't have anything rattling around inside in a few months time? And also make sure that you have taken some further good photos of it?



Magnus

Oh yeah ! Well done !
BTW - regarding the work schedule vs modeling time - quit your job - eating and paying your bills is overrated anyway.

Can't wait for ( fuselage) closing time ! Last call !

Richard

Brian,
In a sense, closing the closing up of the fuselage halves is like a long awaited Holiday present.

It just seems odd to me that your greatest concern is the fit and finish of the radio room's roof. For me I'd rather do that then attempt those PE hand held MGs. Now that scares the heck out of me as PE and I really don't get along that well together.

I certain 2nd what Magnus said about double checking everything for a well glued joint. Once you close the fuselage up, there is no fixing anything that has wiggled off it's glue mount.

I'm rather surprised that you're going to paint the fuselage without the wings on. I'm not familiar with that model, so I don't know if the wing/fuselage joint is the same as on the real aircraft.

Joel

[CORRECTED REPLY]

Thank you kindly Magnus. I agree that having the fuselage become a rattle can is something to be avoided, at all costs. I will double check that everything is as solid as it can be before this monster goes together.

Yes I do plan to do a front-to-back series of photos showing the interior detail before fuselage is joined. Some details are going to be virtually invisible once that happens, and pictures will be the only way to really show them, though believe it or not I tried to keep this in mind while detailing the interior.

Do I feel funny at this point about closing it up? Yes and no. Again, from day one I built it with the knowledge that a lot wasn't going to be seen, but I wanted it there anyway. I may plan some "strategic" openings at some windows so that more can be seen. For example, the side roof windows in the nose might be left removable so that one could look in from the top. I still need to think about this.

There are some things I am really proud of. The bomb bay, first and foremost, because that's what inspired me to the level of detail I've achieved. Second, the nose, which came out really nice after having ripped everything out I had done before so that I could "get it right."

The cockpit was a royal pain, but that also came out okay in the end. I am especially pleased with the opening that leads into the tunnel. The tunnel itself will look good when closed up. I'm happy there about the box with pulley wheels and cables that appears above the hatch into the nose compartment.

Unfortunately, I can't just "build the exterior" of this damn thing at this point. The major challenges that remain include a ball turret interior that strikes a balance between the real thing and practicality in 1/48th, and those daunting main landing gear wheel wells. There I'm going to follow, cookbook fashion but with some modifications, some of the threads I've seen before from other online builds because it's worthless to reinvent the wheel. But it would be nice to have a finished aftermarket product to install instead!

Speaking of which, one thing I am looking forward to is the Brassin Eduard R-1820 engines and cowlings. Having worked for Curtiss-Wright Corp., I really do like detailing engines and the set should be very satisfying to finish up.

Thanks again for your very kind comments. At the beginning of this build I told everyone that I considered myself a "advanced journeyman" modeler, but I'll admit the build has taken me past that point.

So, what is the status of that Finnish Buffalo in 1/48 you were building? The work you did up forward in the engine etc. was fabulous. If you have finished the kit, please post some pictures! If not, maybe it's time to take that one up again?

All the best,

Brian

Just primer Joel. I'll need to see that the seams are filled and that fuselage exterior corrections are made now. It will be far easier doing this without the wings on!!

Brian, words escape me. Call me Johny come late, just caught up on the past two years of your work on this B-17. Really nice work, all the more so as so much detail will be a challenge to see. A true sign of a scale modeler fanatic! Love it!

I'm a big fan of the B-17. As a kid, my uncle had built the monogram B-17, leaving an indelible mark on my life trajectory. I have a similar dream as yours to one day make a "definitive" B-17 model with a hefty contribution of resin and brass.

Thanks for doing this project and sharing with us. Great stuff!

Not to throw a monkey wrench into your plans for finishing but the Aires guns have the E-12 Edgewater adapter. While that was used in the waist, it was not in the nose. The nose guns used the E-11 Bell adapter. I don't think there are any aftermarket guns in such adapters though. The Monogram kit guns are fairly decent FWIW...

You are AMAZING. I will take this info "under advisement." That includes studying the kit guns too.

In addition to helping me with the model, you are providing priceless information online for the modeling community, you know.

By the way, it appears that the HK Models B-17F is coming out fairly soon. They advertise three versions: Memphis Belle, Knockout Dropper, and an E version.

I am sorely tempted to buy my first 1/32nd kit in decades but I will reserve judgment until the kit actually comes out and the reviews come in. To me the big question is whether the manufacturer does what I tried to do, without your help i.e. build an F model based on what the G looks like except for the absence of the chin turret etc.

It will be real interesting to see how they proceed. The fact that they are advertising an E with the F causes me to have some initial reservations, because as we know the E version had many differences of its own from the later versions, from the interior through cowlings and different props etc. etc.

Just sayin'.

Many thanks for the kind words. But be careful! Once you start it can become an obsession.

Brian,
Karl's documentation is absolutely amazing, but for the limited viewing of the nose especially from head on, I'd go for the "Good Enough" approach.

HK models has produced one incredible 1/32 scale model after another. If you have the room for a 1/32 B-17F. I'd bite the bullet and build it. OOB it will be super detailed, so as long as you keep your sanity and just finesse the details, think a year should do it.

Glad to hear that you're just priming at that stage.

Joel

ANOTHER MAD EXCURSION

I am re-doing the cheek guns in the nose. They will be fitted into those very nice gun brackets made some time ago. However, there is something I have always wanted to add to them: the cable and pulley system that allow them to move with counterweights fairly freely.

You can see the wires attached to the rear of the 50 caliber machine gun stocks in the below painting.



They also existed to stabilize the nose gun.

Before tackling this task I asked Karl for some technical help and he produced the following wonderful diagram:



To my knowledge no one has yet to be crazed enough to try to replicate these. However, you can see that I have tried it on the right cheek gun below.



It worked, more or less, after a lot of cursing at my stupidity even to start this. The cables aren't quite as taut as I'd like, but so what? This stuff was adjustable, and visibility will give but a hint.

What I overlooked (poor planning!) is that the other two guns' cables run from bulkhead to bulkhead and can't all be made up till the fuselage is together, and at that point it will be almost impossible to do this with all the clutter that exists in the nose.

So what I plan is a number of "fool the eye" pieces of stretched wire-line to give the impression that the sub assemblies are together, even though they have been built in sections, one on the port side and one on the starboard.

We'll see how it goes. It will least keep me busy to my planned trip to North Carolina on December 15, barring unforeseen circumstances.

Wow, Brian!

What Gaz said....
Kudos for attempting yet another layer of detail.

Lookin' good. For the left nose gun, could you put a small tab on the fuselage half where the aft attach point would be? Put it just forward of the where the bulkhead fits and then you could route that one. No one would ever see it . The nose gun will be a little more tricky, but I have faith in you!!!