MORE WORK ON THOSE NOSE GUN COUNTERBALANCES
Here are couple of pictures documenting continuing progress on the nose gun counterbalance wire and pulley systems.
In the first one you'll see that I managed to tighten up the wiring for the stbd. cheek gun.
In the second one, I have hand placed the port cheek gun into position. I've also run the first strand of wire from the nose to the after bulkhead.
The second strand, not yet installed, will run from the top after bulkhead on the port side where this wire is heading, down to the starboard side below the side windows. A third strand will then intersect from the base of the port nose gun to up against the starboard bulkhead.
How do I do this without gluing the fuselage halves together?
If you look at the base of the port cheek gun you will already see a wire extending upwards and apparently intersecting with the attachment point at the port upper bulkhead. However, this is an optical illusion. In fact, once the gun is glued in that wire will be bent down to the area where the second strand of wire intersects with the starboard bulkhead below the window. No one will be able to see that it is not physically attached to that point.
I already have a solution for the counterbalance and pulley system for the Plexiglas nose gun, which is seemingly impossible to install because it all fits together after the Plexiglas nose is attached to the fuselage. However, the solution is pretty simple. Wait and see.
If you're wondering why am going to this extra effort on this, when this work is finished I will add a quote from my book about an incident in the nose of a B-17 involving exactly this equipment. That will make it clear why went to the extra effort. Consider it a tribute to somebody who died.
World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
1/48 B-17F Build - 303rd BGs Luscious Lady
Posted: Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 11:08 PM UTC
Posted: Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 11:12 PM UTC
Brian,
you're certainly going a long way to populate the interior. I can only be more impressed.
Gaz
you're certainly going a long way to populate the interior. I can only be more impressed.
Gaz
Posted: Saturday, December 03, 2016 - 11:16 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Brian,
you're certainly going a long way to populate the interior. I can only be more impressed.
Gaz
Boy that was fast, Gaz. All I can say is crazy is as crazy does.
rdt1953
New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 06, 2015
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Posted: Sunday, December 04, 2016 - 12:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Brian,
you're certainly going a long way to populate the interior. I can only be more impressed.
Gaz
Ditto- gets better all the time .
Richard
KPHB17FE
Illinois, United States
Joined: January 12, 2015
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Posted: Sunday, December 04, 2016 - 12:49 AM UTC
Absolutely outstanding Brian! Love seeing this kind of detailing, wish I had the patience. What chapter in your book? I need to re-read it
Posted: Sunday, December 04, 2016 - 03:37 AM UTC
Thanks guys for the kind comments. Karl, since you asked the incident I referred to it occurred on the 26 November 1943 mission to Bremen Germany. The chapter is called "Stardust" in my book.
This aircraft was flown by the William C. Fort crew of the 358th Squadron. For this mission they had a brand-new Navigator, Lieut. Harold J. Rocketto, from Brooklyn New York. The bombardier was Charles Spencer, a seasoned veteran.
Here's what happened on the way into the target:
Rocketto was killed instantly. I guess from the time that first pass was started he had a combat life of less than 15 seconds.
I can still remember the interview I had with Bill Fort in the kitchen of his house which he described this mission. Because of the subfreezing wind blowing in and out through the open hatch into the cockpit, and because he wasn't really wearing gloves flying this day, he actually had a number of finger digits on his hands amputated because of severe frostbite.
They were in plain view as he rested his hands on the kitchen table. What was chilling about his account was how absolutely monotone he was about it, though you could just sense the extreme emotion breaking through when he talked about it. I'll never forget the way he said "so I knew something had happened to him."
Here's the only picture of Rocketto that I have, cropped from his crew photo.
So, yeah, if I'm going to do a B-17F I want this equipment in there.
This aircraft was flown by the William C. Fort crew of the 358th Squadron. For this mission they had a brand-new Navigator, Lieut. Harold J. Rocketto, from Brooklyn New York. The bombardier was Charles Spencer, a seasoned veteran.
Here's what happened on the way into the target:
Quoted Text
Fort: "I could see contrails about six miles straight ahead of us, and about the same distance 90 degrees to our right. I figured the Germans were the ones ahead of us, and our fighters were off to the right. But our fighters never seemed to get any closer to us, while the Germans did. They came barreling right on through, firing, and we got hit."
Spencer: "That's when the big 'splat!' hit the nose, and that's all I can describe it as, a big 'splat!' It seemed as if someone had thrown a wet mop against the nose and that's all I remember."
Fort: "They blew out the Plexiglas nose. Both the navigator and the bombardier had been firing, but they only got off a very few shots, just one little burst. The navigator was under my feet in the nose, and out the cockpit window I saw his gun barrel suddenly go straight up—it had weights on it to counterbalance it—so I knew something had happened to him. It was the first German fighter he saw, and he didn't fire more than a dozen shots before he was hit. I çalled on the intercom to him and the bombardier, but I didn't get an answer."
Rocketto was killed instantly. I guess from the time that first pass was started he had a combat life of less than 15 seconds.
I can still remember the interview I had with Bill Fort in the kitchen of his house which he described this mission. Because of the subfreezing wind blowing in and out through the open hatch into the cockpit, and because he wasn't really wearing gloves flying this day, he actually had a number of finger digits on his hands amputated because of severe frostbite.
They were in plain view as he rested his hands on the kitchen table. What was chilling about his account was how absolutely monotone he was about it, though you could just sense the extreme emotion breaking through when he talked about it. I'll never forget the way he said "so I knew something had happened to him."
Here's the only picture of Rocketto that I have, cropped from his crew photo.
So, yeah, if I'm going to do a B-17F I want this equipment in there.
KPHB17FE
Illinois, United States
Joined: January 12, 2015
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Posted: Sunday, December 04, 2016 - 03:53 AM UTC
I can only say "WOW"! It is incomprehensible what those guys went through. A fellow I know from the 100th was badly wounded on his 13th mission (lost an eye for one thing). He was the navigator and yet he helped get the ship back to England and (as a washed out pilot) helped fill in for the mortally wounded copilot until he passed out from his wounds. Many hundreds of these stories were never told...
KelticKnot
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: May 11, 2015
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Posted: Sunday, December 04, 2016 - 02:10 PM UTC
Thanks for sharing that Brian and I echo what Karl said... we simply can't imagine these kind of things that happened (or still happen) in war.
We went on a short holiday to Barcelona this year and we flew back over France at night. My Lancaster build was very much in my mind at the time and as I watched in complete safety and comfort the lights of all the towns and cities pass by underneath, I couldn't help thinking of those crew who flew with the towns under blackout and in cold and uncomfortable aircraft with the unspoken understanding that they might not get back alive after each sortie.
Chilling and humbling.
We went on a short holiday to Barcelona this year and we flew back over France at night. My Lancaster build was very much in my mind at the time and as I watched in complete safety and comfort the lights of all the towns and cities pass by underneath, I couldn't help thinking of those crew who flew with the towns under blackout and in cold and uncomfortable aircraft with the unspoken understanding that they might not get back alive after each sortie.
Chilling and humbling.
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
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Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, December 04, 2016 - 10:10 PM UTC
Brian,
the level of detailing just continues to reach new heights with the MG counterbalance wiring. I sure do hope that once you close up the fuselage halves that enough of this detailing will be visible using a penlight up close. You know I'll have one when I see the Luscious Lady at the 2018 Mosquitocom.
Joel
the level of detailing just continues to reach new heights with the MG counterbalance wiring. I sure do hope that once you close up the fuselage halves that enough of this detailing will be visible using a penlight up close. You know I'll have one when I see the Luscious Lady at the 2018 Mosquitocom.
Joel
KPHB17FE
Illinois, United States
Joined: January 12, 2015
KitMaker: 292 posts
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Joined: January 12, 2015
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Posted: Monday, December 05, 2016 - 02:43 AM UTC
Just curious, what is "Mosquitocon"? EDIT: Okay, I looked it up. May have to figure out a trip in the future...
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 - 07:38 AM UTC
GUN BELTS
After seeing how difficult it was proving to get the metal "gun belts" supplied by Bill Koster's sets to fit my cheek guns, I realized that I had much better substitutes in the Aries waist gun window sets that I had bought.
So, I replaced the belts. There is still a bit of touch-up needed for the new belts, and generally, but I think you will agree that these belts look better and more to scale than the white metal ones.
For the left cheek gun here are the before and after shots.
Before:
After:
And here is the comparison on the starboard cheek gun.
Before:
After:
You will also note that I had to add another ammo box to the port side bombardier floor. However, all in all I do consider this a real improvement.
Here is a head-on shot that will give you some idea of how this will look once the "Plexiglas" nose is installed.
It works for me.
There are two final sets of "bungee cords" that I am installing. These are for the nose gun itself. They will fit into the upper part of the nose and extend backwards into the starboard and the port bulkheads. They are the last thing that has to be done before the fuselage gets glued together.
My North Carolina friend is coming up to visit me between December 27 and 29 to accomplish this, so the fuselage really will be put together this year!
After seeing how difficult it was proving to get the metal "gun belts" supplied by Bill Koster's sets to fit my cheek guns, I realized that I had much better substitutes in the Aries waist gun window sets that I had bought.
So, I replaced the belts. There is still a bit of touch-up needed for the new belts, and generally, but I think you will agree that these belts look better and more to scale than the white metal ones.
For the left cheek gun here are the before and after shots.
Before:
After:
And here is the comparison on the starboard cheek gun.
Before:
After:
You will also note that I had to add another ammo box to the port side bombardier floor. However, all in all I do consider this a real improvement.
Here is a head-on shot that will give you some idea of how this will look once the "Plexiglas" nose is installed.
It works for me.
There are two final sets of "bungee cords" that I am installing. These are for the nose gun itself. They will fit into the upper part of the nose and extend backwards into the starboard and the port bulkheads. They are the last thing that has to be done before the fuselage gets glued together.
My North Carolina friend is coming up to visit me between December 27 and 29 to accomplish this, so the fuselage really will be put together this year!
KelticKnot
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: May 11, 2015
KitMaker: 768 posts
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Joined: May 11, 2015
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Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 - 02:07 PM UTC
Great news Brian, a fitting note to end the year on with the interior complete and fuselage joined.
I agree that the replacement ammo belts look much more in scale.
You just have to post a full length port and starboard photo to show each fuselage half before they are joined and the view becomes restricted.
I agree that the replacement ammo belts look much more in scale.
You just have to post a full length port and starboard photo to show each fuselage half before they are joined and the view becomes restricted.
rdt1953
New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 06, 2015
KitMaker: 1,098 posts
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Joined: February 06, 2015
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AeroScale: 900 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 - 04:21 PM UTC
Brian - The new ammo belts look much better indeed . Also, I second Paul on the port and starboard interior photos before it gets buttoned up.
Holding my breath now till the fuse is joined - Richard
Holding my breath now till the fuse is joined - Richard
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
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AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 - 08:20 PM UTC
Brian,
1st and foremost I'm truly excited about the fuselage halves finally being joined together. It's been one very long journey to get to this point. One that I've been waiting for some time. It's going to be strange to read you detailing adventures on wheel wells, struts, and engines.
The replacements for the ammo belts have a overall nicer scale "feel" to them. Before they just over powered the MG Breaches. One thing that the scale effect over emphasizes is the available room for the gunners. There hardly seems enough room for both of them to stand and man those MGs. In real life I'm sure it was tight, but quite workable.
Looking from the nose in, is there a plan to deal with the upper fuselage ceiling seam, as it's about the only place in the fuselage that it will be easily seen?
Joel
1st and foremost I'm truly excited about the fuselage halves finally being joined together. It's been one very long journey to get to this point. One that I've been waiting for some time. It's going to be strange to read you detailing adventures on wheel wells, struts, and engines.
The replacements for the ammo belts have a overall nicer scale "feel" to them. Before they just over powered the MG Breaches. One thing that the scale effect over emphasizes is the available room for the gunners. There hardly seems enough room for both of them to stand and man those MGs. In real life I'm sure it was tight, but quite workable.
Looking from the nose in, is there a plan to deal with the upper fuselage ceiling seam, as it's about the only place in the fuselage that it will be easily seen?
Joel
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 - 08:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The replacements for the ammo belts have a overall nicer scale "feel" to them. Before they just over powered the MG Breaches. One thing that the scale effect over emphasizes is the available room for the gunners. There hardly seems enough room for both of them to stand and man those MGs. In real life I'm sure it was tight, but quite workable.
Looking from the nose in, is there a plan to deal with the upper fuselage ceiling seam, as it's about the only place in the fuselage that it will be easily seen?
Joel
Joel:
The navigator manned both cheek guns depending where the enemy was. The bombardier manned the one in the nose.
We'll see about the seam when we come to it.
Thanks again for you long support of this build!
Brian
Posted: Monday, December 26, 2016 - 06:46 PM UTC
FUSELAGE TOUR - IN INSTALLMENTS - STBD NOSE
Can only do this in pieces because of time pressure over the holidays but here we are. I don't mind telling you all that I am so tapped out doing interior details in this build that I almost have a Roddy McDowell "Clockwork Orange" reaction to the prospect of doing any more.
Thank goodness it's time to bring this to a "merciful close!"
Ok, so here is the stbd nose. The final addition is the pulley line to the nose gun. Will explain how it will actually attach to the gun later.
I think this shot shows off everything that's in there to reasonably good effect. What a long road this was, considering the ripout! I like the way the gun came out, and the wires, some taut, and some loose, add a final layer of complexity. And the drift meter looks OK too!
The purist in me still longs for a more pristine, cleaner look, but the A/C WAS heavily used and functionally untidy and worn, and that appearance is made here, though as much by accident as design. However, "I can live with it."
More later, of course.
Can only do this in pieces because of time pressure over the holidays but here we are. I don't mind telling you all that I am so tapped out doing interior details in this build that I almost have a Roddy McDowell "Clockwork Orange" reaction to the prospect of doing any more.
Thank goodness it's time to bring this to a "merciful close!"
Ok, so here is the stbd nose. The final addition is the pulley line to the nose gun. Will explain how it will actually attach to the gun later.
I think this shot shows off everything that's in there to reasonably good effect. What a long road this was, considering the ripout! I like the way the gun came out, and the wires, some taut, and some loose, add a final layer of complexity. And the drift meter looks OK too!
The purist in me still longs for a more pristine, cleaner look, but the A/C WAS heavily used and functionally untidy and worn, and that appearance is made here, though as much by accident as design. However, "I can live with it."
More later, of course.
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
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AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Monday, December 26, 2016 - 10:43 PM UTC
Brian,
I've seen highly detailed work by the masters of our craft, and your nose gunner station is right up there with the best of them.
Joel
I've seen highly detailed work by the masters of our craft, and your nose gunner station is right up there with the best of them.
Joel
Posted: Monday, December 26, 2016 - 11:09 PM UTC
Brian,
Can't be anything but impressed. Looks great!
Gaz
Can't be anything but impressed. Looks great!
Gaz
KelticKnot
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: May 11, 2015
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Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - 12:28 AM UTC
The overall busy-ness of so much added detail gives the viewer so much to take in. I don't think there's any need to be a purist here, it's certainly THE most scratchbuilt detail I've seen crammed into any model.
Your B17 interior will be the benchmark by which all others will be compared
Your B17 interior will be the benchmark by which all others will be compared
KPHB17FE
Illinois, United States
Joined: January 12, 2015
KitMaker: 292 posts
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Joined: January 12, 2015
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AeroScale: 292 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - 01:38 AM UTC
Very nicely done Brian. Did you happen to take any pictures of the drift meter before you installed it? Looks good, but it is rather dark in the photo. That is a funky little bit that few will know about!!
Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - 11:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Very nicely done Brian. Did you happen to take any pictures of the drift meter before you installed it? Looks good, but it is rather dark in the photo. That is a funky little bit that few will know about!!
Yes, will post later. BTW, Fuselage is closed!! More pics of insides and exterior to follow current WIP (Work in Progress) completion.
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
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Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 02:47 AM UTC
Brian,
Oh please post a few pictures of the closed fuselage. How did the nose looking in work out?
Joel
Oh please post a few pictures of the closed fuselage. How did the nose looking in work out?
Joel
rdt1953
New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 06, 2015
KitMaker: 1,098 posts
AeroScale: 900 posts
Joined: February 06, 2015
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AeroScale: 900 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 02:52 AM UTC
Brian - Well Done ! What a milestone for you- can't wait to see the remaining interior shots AND the assembled fuselage-
Hope you are toasting the event - I know I will by proxy- Richard
Hope you are toasting the event - I know I will by proxy- Richard
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 03:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Brian - Well Done ! What a milestone for you- can't wait to see the remaining interior shots AND the assembled fuselage-
Hope you are toasting the event - I know I will by proxy- Richard
Richard,
Even better, lets do that toast when the 3 of us meet up at the Mosquitocon.
Joel
KelticKnot
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: May 11, 2015
KitMaker: 768 posts
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Joined: May 11, 2015
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AeroScale: 656 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 03:28 AM UTC
Congratulations Brian, quite a momentous point in your build !