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World War II: Germany
Aircraft of Germany in WWII.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
Eduard 1:48 Bf 109G-6
TedMamere
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Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014 - 12:07 AM UTC
Hi Rowan,


Quoted Text

The result? A neat thumbprint right across the fuselage mottling to try to disguise!


That's too bad about the fingerprint. But I'm sure with a little sanding and over-spraying it will look fine. The german painter did the same during WWII...



In the document it is written: "Bei zu hartem Übergang untere Grenze durch leichtes Vernebeln mit Farbton 76 ausgleichen". This means if the contrast of the mottling on the fuselage sides is too pronounced, it is suggested to spray a light coat of RLM 76 to blend everything together. I suppose a fingerprint can be considered an exaggerated contrast...

Jean-Luc
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Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014 - 01:52 AM UTC
I don't ever recall a kit getting so much bad press which frankly is a bit over blown . Rowan , Jean Luc and Steffen you guy's have kept this very professional making this an enjoyable thread to follow . Has changed my mind on the kit . I'm still getting it it's on order at the LHS

Rowan , I do this lot's and with ever project there at least has to be one of Blue's hairs . I guess it makes him feel he is part of the project .



Terri
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014 - 03:40 AM UTC
Rowan,
I've been guilty of the "fingerprint" issue more times then I care to admit. I even took to wearing white photo cloth gloves, but I almost always forget to wear the one glove on the holding/touching the model hand.

Terri,
It is rather somewhat comical that so much time and effort has been spent by the rivet counters ripping this model apart. I'm willing to bet that the a decent percentage of them still buy the kit. I'm also in a sort of weird way waiting to see them "attack" the new Kitty Hawk releases: the F-101A/C Voodoo, and the Kitty Hawk twin Cougars; F9F-8 and TF-9J. Makes no difference to me as I'm buying all three releases. As a matter of fact, Sprue Brothers already is listing the F-101 as in stock.

Joel

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Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014 - 04:20 AM UTC
First up, I must say these are all excellent builds, and I look forward to seeing Rowans completed too.

However, for once in my life I have too agree with Gaston. Yes, it looks like a 109G. The kit looks lovely, beautifully engineered, sublime detail, delicious surface textures. But, and it's a big but, it IS too big. Fortunately it is proportionally too big, so if it is displayed on it's own, it would look fine. I will still get one because I like the look of it and it appears to be a nice kit to build.

But if you are a dedicated 1/48th builder (I'm not), and want an accurate G6 in that scale, then this kit is not it.
Merlin
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Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014 - 04:22 AM UTC
Hi again

I'm glad I'm not the only fingerprinter! If I go for it, I'll do a "before & after" shot of my repair, but I'm half-tempted to leave it there as a reminder to myself that I've let myself get out of practice on the basics and need to get more modelling time in.

I suppose, by way of some sort of feeble excuse, this is the first kit I've painted in a while using purely acrylics, and I might have got away with it with my usual (more robust) enamels... Still, lesson learned.

Painting c*ck-ups aside, I'm enjoying the build, but I'm with Steve on the discrepancies issue, and they will be duly flagged up if I do the Review for the kit.

All the best

Rowan
TedMamere
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Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014 - 09:28 AM UTC
Hi Rowan,


Quoted Text

I'm with Steve on the discrepancies issue, and they will be duly flagged up if I do the Review for the kit.


Here is a comparison photo of the Hasegawa (left) and Eduard (right) kits side by side...



I know this thread is also watched by model builders from other websites and the size issue is being discussed quite heavily. It is to note that the decals on the Hasegawa kit are from the Eduard boxing. Apart from reducing the wing crosses slightly, I didn't had to modify them.

Jean-Luc
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Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014 - 06:10 PM UTC
Hi Jean-Luc,

Thanks for that photo, it seems simplistic to me, but it looks like the wingtips on the Eduard model are a different shape and a bit too 'long'? Is that where the dimensional error is on the kit? It looks from those photos that the rest of the wing look pretty similar, and that would explain why the decals fit ok. But we all know the problems in trying to ascertain accuracy from photos, don't we?
Merlin
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Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014 - 10:04 PM UTC
Hi again

Dohh! After all that, I forgot to shoot a "before" of the thumbprint! Anyway, the repair's done and I can start to move on again:



Steve, the wing discrepancy against the Kagero drawings lies partly at the tips, as you suggest, and also mid-span. Ironically though (in an admittedly VERY quick check before writing this), the Zvezda Friedrich seems to come slightly short against the plans - which only goes to highlight the perils of relying too heavily on any source that you can't vouch for yourself. Oh, to get up to Hendon with a tape measure!

All the best

Rowan
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Posted: Sunday, May 18, 2014 - 11:44 PM UTC
Hi Rowan,

Wow! excellent! Now we can start another game: "find the hidden fingerprint"...

Compared to the Hasegawa wing, the difference is indeed located more at the wingtip...



Jean-Luc
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Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 - 02:26 AM UTC
Personally, I feel they both are fine looking models and I probably stand with the masses that would purchase either/or just because they would like a nice G-6.

And I'm going to go ahead and try to win that nice G-6 of Rowan's, by saying it was a thumbprint located on the port engine cowling. Of course, it has since been cleverly disguised by exquisite airbrush mottle.
Merlin
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Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 - 06:26 AM UTC
Cheers Jean-Luc and Ben

Barring disasters at work (I shouldn't tempt Fate!), I've got the day off tomorrow, so I hope to crack on a bit. What is it Mal says when he builds up a head of steam? - his modelling "mojo" is back - hopefully I'll tap into a bit of that inspiration too.

All the best

Rowan

(@ Ben - Actually, the re-paint's under the cockpit, so if it passed first scrutiny I'm well chuffed! )
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Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 - 05:26 PM UTC
Nicely done Rowan, that is looking good

I followed a link on Face Book and ended up on a thread about this kit on Hypertension. Bizarrely the poster was claiming that the kit was accurate, according to the plans in the Bert Kinsy (I think it was) book that he had! I'm just glad that I don't feel any need to buy one of these, not that I wouldn't, its just not my scale anymore
Merlin
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Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 - 09:35 PM UTC
Cheers Mal

I'm going to have a play with the undercarriage this morning. I've taken out around 1/16th of an inch from the oleo to see how it effects the "sit" of the model.



All the best

Rowan

[img]
TedMamere
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Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 - 11:45 PM UTC
Hi Rowan,

I'm curious to see what effect your suggery will have on the model...

I have left the molded on break lines on mine but they are too "heavy" in my opinion. Removing them and replacing them with finer ones can improve the look of the landing gears as well. This is what I will do on my next Eduard Bf 109Gs.

Jean-Luc
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Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 - 11:59 PM UTC
Hi Jean-Luc

This is the result:



I'll also increase the forward "crank" of the gear like you did. Interestingly, none of the drawings in my collection tally on the angle of the gear, so I've gone by my MK. 1 eyeballs to get it in the ballpark.

I agree about the brake-lines. They're probably about as fine as can be moulded safely. but still worth replacing.

All the best

Rowan
eclarson
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Posted: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 01:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Nicely done Rowan, that is looking good

I followed a link on Face Book and ended up on a thread about this kit on Hypertension. Bizarrely the poster was claiming that the kit was accurate, according to the plans in the Bert Kinsy (I think it was) book that he had! I'm just glad that I don't feel any need to buy one of these, not that I wouldn't, its just not my scale anymore


Hi Mal,

I'm curious to know what post on Hyperscale you are referring to. If, as I suspect, it is mine, then you didn't read it thoroughly or get the point I was trying to make. If not, then I apologize for the lengthy explanation that is to follow.

First, the book was one of Lynn Ritger's excellent volumes on the Bf 109 although he had nothing to do with the plan drawings, they were by another individual. Bert Kinsy has never done a book on the 109 to the best of my knowledge.

After reading the endless thrashing of the Eduard kit on several forums, and having just received the kit myself, purely out of curiosity I laid some of the kit parts on the 1/48 drawings. I originally had no intention of taking photos or of going public with my findings. I did so as I was surprised to see that the difference between the parts and the drawings were not nearly as great as I expected.

I used a scale ruler to confirm that the drawings were indeed 1/48 scale, as least in the major dimensions with which I was concerned.

The purpose of my "bizzare" post in no way claimed the kit was accurate. I was merely trying to show that while there were some dimensional errors, they might not be as great as some would have us believe.

Interestingly enough, when I did the same with a Hasegawa 1/48 Bf 109G, it was short in some areas to the same, or greater, degree as the Eduard kit is long.

I didn't post photos of the Hasgegawa comparison as I nearly incited a riot with the first batch and I had no desire to fan the flames. Your term of "Hypertension" made me chuckle. I have my own names for that forum but won't repeat them here. :-)

Cheers,
Eric
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Posted: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 02:27 AM UTC
Rowan,
Very nice modifications to the landing gear. Did you just re-glue the oleo, or did you insert a pin for added strength?

As far as the brake lines go, for all the work you've put into this build, removing those very over sized brake lines, which actually look more like tubes, would be an excellent idea.

Joel
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Posted: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 05:06 AM UTC
Hi Eric,

Quoted Text

Hi Mal,

I'm curious to know what post on Hyperscale you are referring to. If, as I suspect, it is mine, then you didn't read it thoroughly or get the point I was trying to make. If not, then I apologize for the lengthy explanation that is to follow.


Yes I believe that it was My apologies for not reading the whole thing, but I can never read the full posts on Hypertension as they always seem to go off on a tangent! So even if I did manage to read the whole thing I don't believe that I would have understood any better. I thought that I had the gist of it but I couldn't find it again. I was just using the reference to the thread to make the point that any discrepancies might not be fully appreciated Saying that the poster "bizarrely claimed that the kit was accurate", was not intended in any way to infer that you are bizarre!
My apologies for "forcing" you to outline your findings again but take heart in the fact that everyone reading this thread knows that I have made a tit of myself and that you have proved that the kit isn't as bad as is being cited
TedMamere
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Posted: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 06:50 AM UTC
Hi Mal,


Quoted Text

the kit isn't as bad as is being cited


No it isn't, really. But it is also not perfect. I have built the Eduard Bf 109G-6 a second time (the major parts) to highlight the landing gear angle "problem"...



By the way, the drawing is from Watanabe and from the late 70'. The plans from the Book Eric refers too are an almost exact match to them... only that Watanabe got the wing bulges right...

Some people think that modifying the landing gear angle might not require to modify the kit's parts. Having built the model and finished it, my opinion is that, sadly, it is indeed necessary.

Jean-Luc
eclarson
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Posted: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 07:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Eric,

Yes I believe that it was My apologies for not reading the whole thing, but I can never read the full posts on Hypertension as they always seem to go off on a tangent! So even if I did manage to read the whole thing I don't believe that I would have understood any better. I thought that I had the gist of it but I couldn't find it again. I was just using the reference to the thread to make the point that any discrepancies might not be fully appreciated Saying that the poster "bizarrely claimed that the kit was accurate", was not intended in any way to infer that you are bizarre!
My apologies for "forcing" you to outline your findings again but take heart in the fact that everyone reading this thread knows that I have made a tit of myself and that you have proved that the kit isn't as bad as is being cited


Hi Mal,

No worries! No apology necessary as I didn't mind explaining my findings again. I just wanted to ensure you and others understood there was method to my madness.

As for inferring I might be bizarre...well, there are some who may think that not too far off!

Take care,

Cheers,
Eric
Merlin
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Posted: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 07:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Rowan,
Very nice modifications to the landing gear. Did you just re-glue the oleo, or did you insert a pin for added strength?

As far as the brake lines go, for all the work you've put into this build, removing those very over sized brake lines, which actually look more like tubes, would be an excellent idea.

Joel


Cheers Joel

I drilled out each part and added a brass rod for strength. Simply re-glueing might have worked, but the few minutes spent fitting the rods and re-assembling with CA probably worked out quicker than waiting for styrene cement to dry out thoroughly - and it's pretty rock-solid.

Dohh! I was going to leave the brake-lines, but now you've said that I feel duty-bound to replace them!

OK... one for the Luftwaffe Farbenexperten... What do you think the dark patches on the tail of Grislawski's mount were?



It's not a battle-damage repair, because it's in the same place on both stabilisers. The paint crosses both the metal and fabric surfaces, and is darker than the RLM 74 on the starboard tailplane.

I don't remember anything similar in other shots of '109s, but I admit I haven't done a hunt since spotting this example. Any ideas?

It's interesting to note the overspray on the stabiliser and elevator from the white tail. I masked the fuselage because a similar shot of Graf's aircraft seems to show a hard edge there (it has overspray on the tailplanes too), but logically the division could also be soft on the fuselage.

All the best

Rowan
Merlin
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Posted: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 - 08:35 AM UTC
Hi Jean-Luc

If nothing else, this kit has underlined just how scary it is in making any "absolute" declarations about accuracy on such a seemingly well-known subject! Cross checking my reference scale drawings - all of which "look like a '109" - none of them agree! And people often complain the '109 is "covered to death"...

I've got to say, though, left unmodified the kit looks like it's standing on tip-toe to me. Maybe I'll have gone too far with shortened legs, increased angle and weighted tyres... we'll have to see. That's half the fun of modelling.

All the best

Rowan
Merlin
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Posted: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 - 07:01 AM UTC
Hi again

I've just stumbled across a photo of Grislawski's mount that was new to me:



Those dark patches on the tail are clearly visible - but the paint pattern is intriguing compared to what I'd presumed - a division that I'd thought was the shadow/reflection of Grislawski's uniform, is perhaps down to the white tail? However, the heavily worn/over-sprayed fuselage is obviously even more evident than I'd thought. For once, my snail's pace progress has paid dividends in allowing a bit of a rework - because I've clearly got a lot still to do...

All the best

Rowan
TedMamere
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Posted: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 - 05:33 PM UTC
Hi Rowan,

I have scratched my head about those dark patches but found nothing. Sometimes there are some blocking devices for the movable surfaces of airplanes when they are on the ground. Could these marks come from them? I haven't found a picture which shows how they look like on the Messerschmitt and where exactely they are located though.

Jean-Luc
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Posted: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 - 07:11 PM UTC
Rowan and Jean Luc really enjoying following your builds with this kit so much so I have just bought one now to wait for the postie to arrive with it. I think the kit looks great (ignoring the size issues as its really not going to bother me once it is finished and in my display cabinet) and only hope I can do half as good with mine
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