Joel ,
For earth tones have you thought about using white instead of the light grey for the molting over the black base ? . Maybe even flipping the colours around . White base with black molting .
I seen a few folks trying different methods with the basing and playing around with it .
Anyway Joel , she is looking very sharp so far . Very nice job on the camo
Terri
World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
Airfix 1/48 scale Hawker Hurricane Mk
thegirl
Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Monday, March 05, 2018 - 06:34 AM UTC
Joel_W
Associate Editor
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Posted: Monday, March 05, 2018 - 06:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Joel ,
For earth tones have you thought about using white instead of the light grey for the molting over the black base ? . Maybe even flipping the colours around . White base with black molting .
I seen a few folks trying different methods with the basing and playing around with it .
Anyway Joel , she is looking very sharp so far . Very nice job on the camo
Terri
Terri,
I originally started with the black basing with gray primer and black squigglies. Just might go back to it as well. As for white, I'll have to give that some thought.
One issue I'm working on now is my lighting for photo sessions. I jumped at blaming my Nikon D7100 using Daylight WB. But now that I'm thinking about it, it has to be the two same bulbs in my 3 light setup. Going to have to buy new bulbs and see what the difference really is.
Joel
stooge
South Australia, Australia
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Posted: Monday, March 05, 2018 - 07:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm cross posting this question as I just can't find a picture of the leading edge of the Hurricane Mk1 wing. The Airfix kit has the .303 MG barrels stopping halfway through the wing spar. There is no barrel that goes into the leading edge so you can actually see the front of the barrel. The leading edge does have deep recessed depressions for the barrels, but no barrels.
Were the gun openings taped, have a plug, or did they in fact remain open where you could see the front of the barrel?
Any and all info especially any pictures would be great appreciated.
Joel
For the Hurri Mk I the gun barrels were recessed from the leading edge. Typically they were covered by doped (red / brown) fabric to prevent object/dust/ice ingestion. Ground crew would know if the guns had been fired before being post flight briefed by the pilot by the flapping fabric remains accordingly.
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, March 05, 2018 - 08:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI'm cross posting this question as I just can't find a picture of the leading edge of the Hurricane Mk1 wing. The Airfix kit has the .303 MG barrels stopping halfway through the wing spar. There is no barrel that goes into the leading edge so you can actually see the front of the barrel. The leading edge does have deep recessed depressions for the barrels, but no barrels.
Were the gun openings taped, have a plug, or did they in fact remain open where you could see the front of the barrel?
Any and all info especially any pictures would be great appreciated.
Joel
For the Hurri Mk I the gun barrels were recessed from the leading edge. Typically they were covered by doped (red / brown) fabric to prevent object/dust/ice ingestion. Ground crew would know if the guns had been fired before being post flight briefed by the pilot by the flapping fabric remains accordingly.
Carl,
Thanks for the additional information, it's greatly appreciated.
Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, March 05, 2018 - 08:15 PM UTC
As Torsten and my brother pointed out, the colors aren't correct. They're much to bright, with a cast of yellow to them especially in the Dark Green.
At 1st I thought it was a White Balance issue, but that's always correctable in post processing using Lightroom 6.1. I could have spent time playing with the Hue, Saturation, and Luminance filters to come closer, but that doesn't solve the issue.
After just thinking about it, the answer has to be the lighting that I've been using, which is what I model with plus one more Tensor light. I used two tensor table lamps which I assumed was 5500k and a Ottlite which is 5500k. The Tensor bulbs aren't close. So I'm going to buy two clip on reflectors and two 5500k balanced floods.
But for a test I reset up the lights, put on my 105mm Macro lens which required me to be back more then 4 ft., and used my flash (not the pop up). With a EV setting of -.7, I got close enough to the correct exposure so that the picture is now what I see on the workbench. The Brown is somewhat darker, but the Dark Green is now a Dark Green.
Before:
After:
Joel
At 1st I thought it was a White Balance issue, but that's always correctable in post processing using Lightroom 6.1. I could have spent time playing with the Hue, Saturation, and Luminance filters to come closer, but that doesn't solve the issue.
After just thinking about it, the answer has to be the lighting that I've been using, which is what I model with plus one more Tensor light. I used two tensor table lamps which I assumed was 5500k and a Ottlite which is 5500k. The Tensor bulbs aren't close. So I'm going to buy two clip on reflectors and two 5500k balanced floods.
But for a test I reset up the lights, put on my 105mm Macro lens which required me to be back more then 4 ft., and used my flash (not the pop up). With a EV setting of -.7, I got close enough to the correct exposure so that the picture is now what I see on the workbench. The Brown is somewhat darker, but the Dark Green is now a Dark Green.
Before:
After:
Joel
Posted: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 01:42 AM UTC
well that certainly makes a huge difference. The colours look spot on Joel!
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 02:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
well that certainly makes a huge difference. The colours look spot on Joel!
Russell,
Thanks for checking out the color differences. Now to invest in the proper lighting so that issue should no longer pop up again.
Joel
thegirl
Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 07:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
well that certainly makes a huge difference. The colours look spot on Joel!
Agree with Russell Joel , much better
Terri
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 - 08:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Textwell that certainly makes a huge difference. The colours look spot on Joel!
Agree with Russell Joel , much better
Terri
Thanks for checking it out. Just goes to show you have a simple thing can cause major issues.
Joel
Terri
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2018 - 03:01 AM UTC
Another week has gone by, another Nor'easter snow storm heading right for Long Island once again. That's 3 Storms in 2 weeks. Warmest February on record followed by one of the worst Marches snow wise on record as well. At least being retired I no longer have to worry about getting to work, nor home from work. Just pray that my old snow blower makes it through the season. Last storm the cable that engages the drive gears broke. Luckily, I was able to repair it easy enough.
This past week I glossed the Hurricane with Tamiya's X-22 Clear gloss over a 3 day period. For the 1st time in what seems like ages, I decided to use the kits decals after reading several build blogs that all gave them quite positive assessments . The Airfix decals look virtually perfect in color and registration. they're thin but not so thin as to be prone to tearing or curling. And they're not Gloss, they have a beautiful mat finish to them. To bad that I'm going to have to gloss over them to seal the decals, as well as the base for whatever weathering I'm going to be doing. I'm guessing that the Matt finish doesn't require any clear gloss varnish to applied over them, making the decals that much easier to work with.
The decals behaved so well, that I had little trouble overlapping the tail Red, White, & Blue decals from both sides.
The Airfix decals didn't respond all that well to Micro Set, but settled down with Sol fairly well. A final coat of Solvaset, and they settled into the nooks & crannies with just the slightest prodding and patting.
Joel
This past week I glossed the Hurricane with Tamiya's X-22 Clear gloss over a 3 day period. For the 1st time in what seems like ages, I decided to use the kits decals after reading several build blogs that all gave them quite positive assessments . The Airfix decals look virtually perfect in color and registration. they're thin but not so thin as to be prone to tearing or curling. And they're not Gloss, they have a beautiful mat finish to them. To bad that I'm going to have to gloss over them to seal the decals, as well as the base for whatever weathering I'm going to be doing. I'm guessing that the Matt finish doesn't require any clear gloss varnish to applied over them, making the decals that much easier to work with.
The decals behaved so well, that I had little trouble overlapping the tail Red, White, & Blue decals from both sides.
The Airfix decals didn't respond all that well to Micro Set, but settled down with Sol fairly well. A final coat of Solvaset, and they settled into the nooks & crannies with just the slightest prodding and patting.
Joel
rdt1953
New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2018 - 03:35 AM UTC
Looking very nice indeed Joel - I admire your photography and lighting knowledge and your work ethic in making them right . I am afraid that even if I had your skill set in these matters I would not put that much effort into it- for me it is simply try to minimize shadows an take the shot with the I pad !
Regarding Nor'easters - I have lived on a small barrier island year round all my life (65 years in July )and have experienced more of them than I can count and I'm pretty well sick of them. I am amused by the weather pundits terminology regarding storms like Sandy - they refer to them as " Hundred Year Events " . I have experienced and thankfully survived 3 of them . My math makes them closer to
" Twenty-One Year Events ". Let's see how the media will sensationalize this new one.
Cheers -Richard
Regarding Nor'easters - I have lived on a small barrier island year round all my life (65 years in July )and have experienced more of them than I can count and I'm pretty well sick of them. I am amused by the weather pundits terminology regarding storms like Sandy - they refer to them as " Hundred Year Events " . I have experienced and thankfully survived 3 of them . My math makes them closer to
" Twenty-One Year Events ". Let's see how the media will sensationalize this new one.
Cheers -Richard
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2018 - 05:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Looking very nice indeed Joel - I admire your photography and lighting knowledge and your work ethic in making them right . I am afraid that even if I had your skill set in these matters I would not put that much effort into it- for me it is simply try to minimize shadows an take the shot with the I pad !
Regarding Nor'easters - I have lived on a small barrier island year round all my life (65 years in July )and have experienced more of them than I can count and I'm pretty well sick of them. I am amused by the weather pundits terminology regarding storms like Sandy - they refer to them as " Hundred Year Events " . I have experienced and thankfully survived 3 of them . My math makes them closer to
" Twenty-One Year Events ". Let's see how the media will sensationalize this new one.
Cheers -Richard
Richard,
I can always count on you being the 1st to read and reply to my updates. As for you not putting in the effort to photograph your builds correctly, some how I don't quite see you doing that. You're meticulous in everything you've done in your build, and I'm sure that those same traits carry over to everything that you do.
As for those once in a lifetime weather events, you're right. They happen way more often, and with every year they get more common places and horrific in their power that causes untold damage and destruction.
This current weather pattern better change course ASAP, or the Mosquitocon just might become a snow event.
Joel
chris1
Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2018 - 08:50 AM UTC
Gee Whiz Joel,
You are ripping along with this one.
I'm still plodding along with the 'stang, I can start decaling
now so that's good.
It's been raining heavily here. While the weather has been exceptional we have been hit by the tail end of 3 big low pressure systems so wind and rain then she fines up and its nice.
Chris
You are ripping along with this one.
I'm still plodding along with the 'stang, I can start decaling
now so that's good.
It's been raining heavily here. While the weather has been exceptional we have been hit by the tail end of 3 big low pressure systems so wind and rain then she fines up and its nice.
Chris
Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2018 - 02:53 PM UTC
Looking good Joel.
I’m at about the same stage with mine 😊
Biggest problem is the 1/24th Hurricane tempting me from the stash now,
compounded by reading Tom Neil’s “Gun Button To Fire”
Can I resist?
I’m at about the same stage with mine 😊
Biggest problem is the 1/24th Hurricane tempting me from the stash now,
compounded by reading Tom Neil’s “Gun Button To Fire”
Can I resist?
Joel_W
Associate Editor
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Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2018 - 07:53 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Gee Whiz Joel,
You are ripping along with this one.
I'm still plodding along with the 'stang, I can start decaling
now so that's good.
It's been raining heavily here. While the weather has been exceptional we have been hit by the tail end of 3 big low pressure systems so wind and rain then she fines up and its nice.
Chris
Chris,
Being retired does have it's benefits, as I manage to work on my current build most days even for a hour or so. Once this constant weekly major Nor'easter snow storms stops and the weather starts to warm up, I'll be spending more time outside, and less at the bench.
Sure sounds like the weather at your end of the world could use some upgrading as well.
Keep on working on the 'stang, and sooner then later you'll cross the finish line.
Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2018 - 07:56 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Looking good Joel.
I’m at about the same stage with mine 😊
Biggest problem is the 1/24th Hurricane tempting me from the stash now,
compounded by reading Tom Neil’s “Gun Button To Fire”
Can I resist?
Nigel,
I hear ya buddy. Tough to concentrate when you start to hear that call. Even for someone like me that never works on more then one build at a time, the temptation is always there.
I'd love to follow your build of the 1/24 Hurricane as I'm sure it will be a incredible build.
Joel
BlackWidow
European Union
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Posted: Monday, March 12, 2018 - 12:30 AM UTC
Joel, your Hurri looks really nice now with the decals on, though I'm still sceptical about your Dark Earth ....
Airfix decals were always good to work with, even in the times when their kits weren't. Last weekend I've got 2 new Airfix kits, the decals are made by Cartograph, so they are good and look very tasty btw. It's a Spit Vb and a Hawker Sea Fury I bought and the Sea Fury might even approach on my workbench soon for the HOOTM Campaign ....
Torsten
Airfix decals were always good to work with, even in the times when their kits weren't. Last weekend I've got 2 new Airfix kits, the decals are made by Cartograph, so they are good and look very tasty btw. It's a Spit Vb and a Hawker Sea Fury I bought and the Sea Fury might even approach on my workbench soon for the HOOTM Campaign ....
Torsten
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, March 12, 2018 - 01:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Joel, your Hurri looks really nice now with the decals on, though I'm still sceptical about your Dark Earth ....
Airfix decals were always good to work with, even in the times when their kits weren't. Last weekend I've got 2 new Airfix kits, the decals are made by Cartograph, so they are good and look very tasty btw. It's a Spit Vb and a Hawker Sea Fury I bought and the Sea Fury might even approach on my workbench soon for the HOOTM Campaign ....
Torsten
Torsten my friend,
Thanks so much for checking out my progress to date. I'm such a neophyte on non-USA aircraft including proper colors, that I pretty much accept the colors from the few major paint companies I use. I guess I'll have to start doing a little more research then I thought I would need to do.
Airfix certainly made the right decision in letting Cartograf print their decals.
I'm waiting for the export version of the Sea Fury to hit the USA online retailers that I deal with. looking forward to seeing yours come down your assembly line sooner then later.
Joel
thegirl
Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Monday, March 12, 2018 - 06:30 AM UTC
Awesome job on the decaling Joel , she is really starting to came together as a whole . Love it !
Terri
Terri
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, March 12, 2018 - 06:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Awesome job on the decaling Joel , she is really starting to came together as a whole . Love it !
Terri
Terri,
Thanks for the thumbs up. It's always much appreciated. Still need to finish the stencils on the bottom, and the few I'll be putting on the top.
Joel
goodn8
Berlin, Germany
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Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 - 01:21 AM UTC
Joel,
hope you can stand the weather and challenge the more and more
confusing klimate outbreaks.
Thanks for the additional details about the decals. The build is coming up very nicely and the decals matching the (in my eye correct) well done camo in the right way. Have to bring out my kit on the bench ...
btw: great thoughts and efforts on your photographic skills as artificial lighting is always a problem. And with different lenses, apertures etc. it will always changes everything again.
Thomas
hope you can stand the weather and challenge the more and more
confusing klimate outbreaks.
Thanks for the additional details about the decals. The build is coming up very nicely and the decals matching the (in my eye correct) well done camo in the right way. Have to bring out my kit on the bench ...
btw: great thoughts and efforts on your photographic skills as artificial lighting is always a problem. And with different lenses, apertures etc. it will always changes everything again.
Thomas
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 - 03:03 AM UTC
Hi Joel
Great progress. I must admit I share Torsten's concerns about the colours, but I've never tried the Mig paints myself - and it's what you see in front of you that counts, not how it comes out on screen. If it looks good through a Mk.1 Eyeball, that's all that matters.
All the best
Rowan
Great progress. I must admit I share Torsten's concerns about the colours, but I've never tried the Mig paints myself - and it's what you see in front of you that counts, not how it comes out on screen. If it looks good through a Mk.1 Eyeball, that's all that matters.
All the best
Rowan
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 - 10:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Joel
Great progress. I must admit I share Torsten's concerns about the colours, but I've never tried the Mig paints myself - and it's what you see in front of you that counts, not how it comes out on screen. If it looks good through a Mk.1 Eyeball, that's all that matters.
All the best
Rowan
Rowan,
So glad that you've stopped by to checkout the Hurricane to date. Honestly, I've never painted a British aircraft in these colors before as my Spitfire Mk IXc and Mossie used a Gray/Green scheme.
the Airfix instructions simply call out for the upper colors to be Dark Green & Dark Brown. A little online research which started with my go to color site: IPMS Sweden has the Dark Brown listed as FS:30095 (30118). The 1st color is slightly warmer and lighter then the 2nd color. The Mig Ammo color for Dark Brown is listed as BS 450. A google search was able to show a color chip that closely matched the FS30118. If either is correct or accurate is a unknown to me. My monitor is color calibrated weekly using a graphics calibration scanner as my other hobby is photography. So the colors I'm seeing are what the scanned in chips really are, but that doesn't mean that either one is correct.
I basically used the same procedure for the Dark Green. The IPSM site lists: FS:34079 (34096,34064) for the Dark Green. The Mig set has BS 241 as the correct color. I matched those chips the best I could, and I honestly felt that the Mig Dark Brown was in the ball game.
The colors right now with the gloss coats on looks to dark to me, but with a few filters and washes, then a Matt coat, the final colors should be lighter, but still darker then what I started with.
Going through this process it kind of reminded me of the endless available colors for Olive Drab that's been on the market since the 70s. Right now I have 4 different shades just from Mig Ammo.
The feed back from both you and Torsten is what I'm always looking for, and both of you are not only trusted friends, but whose expertise I value.
Joel
Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 03:24 AM UTC
Hi Joel.
I am with Rowan regarding "Eyeball MkI" when it comes to colours. Official colours have come to mean little to me regarding model paints. As an artist of little talent it is obvious for the need to approximate tint and hue to the circumstance of the subject and modelling is really art in 3-D.
The Dark Earth-Dark Green scheme is very familiar to me as the "Battle of Britain" is where my main interest lies. Having painted British model aircraft in prescribed, original tones I soon became disappointed by dark, ugly blobs of plastic. Only when I started to look at paintings by excellent aviation artists did I realise the natural colours appeared quite different from those mixed in a laboratory. Humbrol 30 and Humbrol 26 became a base-line, with different mixing of greens or browns to them to suit the subject in hand. I simply apply the impression of a camouflaged aeroplane that may be fresh or worn. No two are exactly the same. Dark Earth on a model "appears" different when the Dark Green is applied, so the green I use for Bf109's is the same as for a Hurricane, the grey changing the green to the eye.
Colour is something easily done if you take your time, and above all trust your own judgment.
Cheers
Karl.
I am with Rowan regarding "Eyeball MkI" when it comes to colours. Official colours have come to mean little to me regarding model paints. As an artist of little talent it is obvious for the need to approximate tint and hue to the circumstance of the subject and modelling is really art in 3-D.
The Dark Earth-Dark Green scheme is very familiar to me as the "Battle of Britain" is where my main interest lies. Having painted British model aircraft in prescribed, original tones I soon became disappointed by dark, ugly blobs of plastic. Only when I started to look at paintings by excellent aviation artists did I realise the natural colours appeared quite different from those mixed in a laboratory. Humbrol 30 and Humbrol 26 became a base-line, with different mixing of greens or browns to them to suit the subject in hand. I simply apply the impression of a camouflaged aeroplane that may be fresh or worn. No two are exactly the same. Dark Earth on a model "appears" different when the Dark Green is applied, so the green I use for Bf109's is the same as for a Hurricane, the grey changing the green to the eye.
Colour is something easily done if you take your time, and above all trust your own judgment.
Cheers
Karl.
Joel_W
Associate Editor
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 07:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Joel.
I am with Rowan regarding "Eyeball MkI" when it comes to colours. Official colours have come to mean little to me regarding model paints. As an artist of little talent it is obvious for the need to approximate tint and hue to the circumstance of the subject and modelling is really art in 3-D.
The Dark Earth-Dark Green scheme is very familiar to me as the "Battle of Britain" is where my main interest lies. Having painted British model aircraft in prescribed, original tones I soon became disappointed by dark, ugly blobs of plastic. Only when I started to look at paintings by excellent aviation artists did I realise the natural colours appeared quite different from those mixed in a laboratory. Humbrol 30 and Humbrol 26 became a base-line, with different mixing of greens or browns to them to suit the subject in hand. I simply apply the impression of a camouflaged aeroplane that may be fresh or worn. No two are exactly the same. Dark Earth on a model "appears" different when the Dark Green is applied, so the green I use for Bf109's is the same as for a Hurricane, the grey changing the green to the eye.
Colour is something easily done if you take your time, and above all trust your own judgment.
Cheers
Karl.
Karl
Thanks so much for your advice, it's much appreciated. I have zero artistic talent and can't really even draw a straight line free land. If a piece of paper didn't have lines on it, I could never write a single line that was anywhere considered straight.
I've always prescribed to the theory that during war time, every paint manufacture used whatever pigments and bases it could procure. Hence not only did colors vary from manufacture to manufacture, but batch to batch. That doesn't negate what the official paint chip was called out in the specs. Only the interpretation of real world applications under less then idea circumstances.
So where do that leave us Modelers? Does one match colors to a currently made paint chip made with inks, or to a 70 year old piece of fabric or metal chip from the actual aircraft that's in all likelihood nowhere close to what the color was when applied in 1940? Beats me.
Grumman's didn't get the Gov't to approve of Grumman Gray because Mr. Grumman loved the color, it was because they couldn't get the specified interior primers locally on LI. And Grumman Gray varied from batch to batch that even Dana Bell can't come up with the definitive chip for it.
The more modern the aircraft or whatever you're modeling, the easier it is to attain the original color. At least in theory that is.
Personally, I long ago gave up on trying to duplicate a specific color so precisely that it became an obsession. My brother still spends weeks and months trying to do so, and we constantly argue over just how accurate those colors are. To me close enough is good enough. Especially because I weather all my models to some degree.
Joel