I think F-15 shouldn't be allowed, because it's main role is air to air combat. However, I would accept attack helicopters because their role is just what I think as CAS.

Just my two cents.

Im leaning towards your position,Tuomas

I was initialy against the F15E being included in CAS campaign, but it was designed as a bomber to hit troops, vehicles, installations and has been used In Iraq and Afganistan as CAS. It is broadly similiar situation to the Hawker Typhoon, a fighter developed for ground attack and CAS. I think it should be included. The F15 is a excellent all round performer and even though the F15E is a bomber it is capable of looking after itself. It's worth looking at the F15E in Wilkepedia.
tim

I humbly apologize and stand corrected...the Strike Eagle was indeed designed for CAS ....and it is totally acceptable on this campaign..sorry Nick...I read the essay and shes legit..

Hello All,
The biggest problem I see is it was first designed as a Fighter. Was the F-15E redesigned as a CAS plane only? I think that if you look through all of the histories of Fighters you will find that they all did some CAS work, But they were designed to fight other planes first. Then came any CAS role.
That is why I think that Fighter Planes should not be allowed, Unless they were designed or redesigned as a CAS Plane. A big point to it is that the Corsair was a Fighter Plane that slowly evolved into a CAS Plane later in its service life, Like Korea, Some parts of Central and south America and Africa. They redesigned it for a heavier payload and bigger guns for strafing runs and used it in a CAS role only. The Jet fighters became the Air Superiority Planes in most Air Forces.
On the AH-64, I did some research and found it was designed to be a CAS Helicopter formost with the ground forces, It could also defend itself against Aircraft with Stingers, But was not considered a Fighter plane because it could take out a Fighter.
So I think that the AH-64 should be allowed.

What say you, Our Great and Glorious Nobel Leader?
Cheers,
Bruce

I say you raise a very good point Bruce...
I think there is nothing wrong with including the Apache..Attack helicopters are about as pure a weapon as youll find on todays battlefield besides a rifle..
I agree we should stay away from fighterplanes with bombpoints attached.
Im still on the fence with the F-15: because it was built originally as an interceptor...having said that the Strike Eagle is a variant used for ground attack..hhmmmnnnnnn
I will state my 3 main objectives for the campaign:
- I want everyone to have fun
- I dont want to make anyone mad at me
- I think that everyone should agree on the rules..debate is not a bad thing as long as we dont start throwing stones! ( it adds to the fun factor I think)

Wow, sorry guys, I really opened a can of worms there didnt I. I was actually sitting on the fence as well Jim, thats why I thought I might throw it out there. I think its pretty well the same story as the Typhoon, but I can see Bruces arguement as well. I'm going to get stuck into the Strike Eagle now, been struggling to hold myself back anyway . I've got a couple of A-10's in the stash, now that is the ultimate mud pounder!!

Hello Nick,
I am very sorry if I upset you with my post.
To me CAS planes/helicopters flew so low that the ground crew had to pull off all of the Mud,Tree limbs and the pilots hoping that the "golden shot" did not hit them. They were usually to low to eject safety.
I am with Jim about the rules, To have fun, Learn new ways to build a model and try to make sure I get it as right as I can about what is a CAS plane.
Please accept my apology if I offend you,
Cheers,
Bruce

Definately didnt offend me at all Bruce, all good here mate. Like I said, I was just putting it out there and at least now I can start building her. Im with you, I would like to see some of the builds with a bit mud splatter underneath them!

Yep, got my vote! Nothing more purpose built than the A-10. Great choice for a ribbon.
Jim, thanks for the consideration, looks like the FW190 F8 will be my choice then. I'll mark the calendar for the start date.
Mo

Now to wait for the start date ... so far away

Hi all!

Count me in with a A-10, the ultimate mud mover!
Or it could be a Mohawk, Tweet, Skyraider, Il-2, AH-64......

But i would prefer a start of the Campaign to be in May -June, next year!

Cheers!

Stefan E

Stefan,the campaign DOES start June next year,,,June 22 to be exact! Im glad of the timing, as it allows mye to try and clear my bench...haha..
oh man..someones GOTTA do a tweet! theres another prime candidate fer sher!

Hello All,
I did a little research on two aircrafts being discussed as being OK for this campaign:
The F-15 Strike Eagle,
According to the US Air Force fact sheet it was designed as a Air Superiority Aircraft/ Ground Strike Aircraft. Its primary duties is Air Superiority, secondly duties were Ground attack.
This one is up in the air as being OK for this campaign, As if it is modeled for any of the Gulf War fighting it was used for ground attacks with some Air to Air missiles for self-defense only.
I would allow it if it was modeled for the Gulf War Fighting only. That is my opinion on it.

The FW-190 F-8 was designed to be a High Altitude Attack Fighter going after Bombers. It did have some hard points for bombs and some of the first ones was used in testing some Ground attack weapons such as the WGR,28.280mm Ground to ground missile, 88mm Panzershreck, Panzerblitz 1 and the R4m Rockets.
I have not found the Aircraft used in a primary ground attack role, It might have been used in a pinch for such attacks, But it was not used all the time for CAS Missions.
I would not allow this model in to this campaign, As I can not find any info to support this plane was a primary CAS plane. That is my opinion on it.

Please remember that this campaign is for Aircraft Primary used as a CAS Plane. Now some planes were designed as a Fighter, Cargo or other types and then were redesigned as a CAS Plane. Some examples are the Mohawk, The C-130 (AC-130) and the Corsair to name a few.
I hope I did not offend anyone and that all of this is just my opinion to clarify some of the rules and some of the questions that have arised.
Cheers,
Bruce

Hi Bruce,
are you sure you were reading article about F-variant? It was the D variant that was planned for high altitude fighter. F-variant replaced partly the stukas in eastern front during the end of ww2.

Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fw_190#Attack_versions

This is the great thing about these campaigns, it takes you out of your own field of interest. Normaly I would not look at any research on F15's or Fw190's, but this line of enquiry has. It makes the leaders decisions a bit more difficult though.
tim

I love the history involved in modelling, and healthy debate is fun also. Like I said earlier in the thread, I actively encourage us to bash out the rules amongst ourselves( we have a long wait for the campaign to begin anyways) The only thing I will discourage or try to avoid is throwing stones or upsetting people. I will allow the f-15, and I say that we still need to put to bed the FW-190..its googletime!
by the way.....whos building a tweet?

I am on for this campaign. I think a Bf 109 Jabo might be in place for this campaign

Oooooooooeeeeee

I want that ribbon, now just have to decide what to build to get it

Sorry Jesper ..but the BF-109 was designed as a fighter primarily..we are looking for close air support purpose built airframes ...how about a tweet?

G'day Bruce,

Can I please get a ruling on the Hawker Typhoon or Tempest ??

I know that there was some discussion earlier but I don't think there was a firm YAY or NAY handed down.

Cheers, D

I'm not going to be able to join up, but in my opinion the Typhoon is CAS, and the Tempest isn't.

The Typhoon was doing almost exclusively CAS by 1944/45, where as the Tempest was providing air cover and rarely attacked ground targets.

As for 1/48 or 1/32 Typhoon kits, the Hasegawa 1/48 is pretty good, I think (just seen a few builds). And there is quite a lot of AM stuff for it.

In 1/32 the MDC is the only option unless you want to tackle the old Revell kit with raised panel lines, et al.

Damian, I would suggest the Typhoon over the Tempest

OK no problem. Then I will go for a Stuka, Fw 190F-8, or maybe buy an A-10 as none is in my stash.

Or maybe a bombed up Bf 110 jabo if that is allowed?

I think a Stuka is a perfect choice,Jesper!..I was actually going for that initially until I found a deal on the Hind ........Look at Hasegawa, and if you want a good intirior look at Aires