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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
The KotS GB 2012
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, January 09, 2012 - 05:55 PM UTC
Greetings one and all,

Lots to do. Lots to build. The next early aviation GB is up for discussion. I have some ideas but this is your forum and almost anything short of "hang the moderator" would be considered. I even have a kit or two or three I could offer to the most excellent builder. KotS II, is anybody up for it? Maybe a shorter overall period? Longer? Catagories? Kitchen clean up? No time to be shy now folks.
Kornbeef
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, January 09, 2012 - 08:06 PM UTC
Stephen,

Just adding a few thoughts.

KOTS was a great group build, but perhaps a little long time wise.

A KOTS II would be fine by me.

We need something that takes in all scales I think?

As good as WNW are I'd like to see something that promoted the other manufacturers and scales personally even if I'm a 1/32nd nut I love seeing what others can achieve in the smaller scales.

Maybe a vignette/mini dio theme, I'm just thinking randomly here as I type BTW

Whatever theme you choose will put off a certain number of members. For that reason I think possibly two or more GBs running for shorter periods than KOTS did with varied themes?

Hope this inspres some thoughts in other members. Slow brained as it is...
OEFFAG_153
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Västra Götaland, Sweden
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Posted: Monday, January 09, 2012 - 09:09 PM UTC
Hi Stephen, Keith and everybody else.

I think Keith has a good point about the duration of the GB – perhaps two shorter ones – each 6 months – or one that runs all year, with one or two shorter campaigns that runs in parallel (if that description makes any sense?)

As for themes – well, personally I would like to see campaigns that are a bit narrower than what KOTS was... Still open for all scales of course!

Keiths idea of mini dio/vignette is an excellent one I think – any early aviation plane in any scale, as long as the result is a setting of some kind.

Here are some other thoughts:

Hangar queen campaign is a good idea. (I guess this is what Stephen means with the kitchen clean

Two seater/bomber GB

Marine/Naval aviation units GB

Pusher GB (perhaps a bit too narrow?)

The early aces 1914- mid 1916 GB (does limit a bit, but most seem to build ww1 here anyway)

Those are my random thoughts on the subject

Mikael
lcarroll
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 03:32 AM UTC
Well Stephen, since you ask................
Another KoTS(2?) really appeals to me; gives the opportunity for unlimited subjects and all scales/mediums. The shorter time line (my vote would be 6 months) is a good approach as well IMHO. Having more then one Campaign running consecutively would work provided there's time to participate in both or all if one so desires. Perhaps a staggered start in that case would work ie. start one in Jan/ Feb and kick off another in March/ April etc?
A few general comments from a relative "newbie":
I have noticed (possibly just my perception) that the amount of activity on the Forum is greater during the Campaigns. Presently the number of Build Threads is far smaller then say 3 months back when KoTS was in frenzy mode. Personally I learn a tremendous amount of stuff from the Builds, find them motivating for certain, and they make my day when morning coffee in hand I check the new posts. They encourage great dialogue between our members and really encourage a sharing of info, experience, and even supplies.That is to say we need to have as many Campaigns as practical.
So......my vote: a KoTS 2 for a shorter period (Warreni will be building so fast his desk will burst into flames!) with a more specific theme second project starting three months later; both with 6 months scheduled. There have been several good inputs for more specific themes; Naval subjects, mini vignettes/dios, early aces (like that one but would prefer to wait for the WNW DH2, E Series etc), Hangar Queens or "Those were the Days" OOP kits etc. would all attract a good representation.
As Forest Gump said, "I'm not a smart man" and "that's all I'm gonna say about that". I'm in, just say the word Coach!
Cheers,
Lance
Mgunns
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Arizona, United States
Joined: December 12, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 07:57 AM UTC
Hi Stephen:

I think KOTS II with a 6 month time frame is a grand idea. KOTS II offers all the variety that you mentioned in the opening email, vignettes, early aces, pushers, all scales, all types, all manufacturers. Like Keith stated, I too enjoy seeing what modelers can do with the smaller scales, the obscure vacuform, or a "golden oldie", Like Lance stated, the GB's motivate me, I learn an awful lot from the other more experienced builders, and enjoy the camaraderie of the build. Maybe have a separate coincident GB with a narrow scope like Mikael suggested.
These are my thoughts.

Good luck

Mark
mrockhill
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Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 10:45 AM UTC
Perhaps a french themed campaign. Im no francophile but the french aircraft dont seem to get much representation. Perhaps a Nieuport campaign, lots of possibilities there.
thegirl
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 12:22 PM UTC
All I have to say here is what every the theme will be folks will sign up for it .
What needs to open up more is participation in different scales and not just limited to WNW kits . Not evey one builds in the scale .

Time frame wise , a year is just too long for most folks . 6 months would be best with the option of starting another one in the following . Limiting one GB a year in the early aviation forums doesn't get people more involved with the site . Folks need more options and a reason to join in a GB .

As much as it is nice to have a ribbon for the end , I feel this also needs to change . When I was a member of another site the idea of a actual cretificate which can be e-mail to folks who have finished there builds on time . They can print it of and frame it for their wall in the hobby room .

It's time to come up with new ideas and ways to get folks involved .........
This site has grown over the years and is the best place for reviews and news , but some areas need to be revamp , it can get dull and borning at times , which over a period of time folks just lose interest and move on .........


That's all I have to say for now ........
modulla
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United Kingdom
Joined: July 13, 2008
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Posted: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 12:31 AM UTC
I see that Miracle Paint Masks have gone professional and will soon have their website up :- how about helping them out by having a " no decals " GB ? - Masks from Eduard etc also allowed - and in return the prize is donated by guess who.
This would be conditional on Miracle having their website up and running prior to the start of the GB. Stick and carrot, see?
Modulla
modulla
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 10:41 PM UTC
On further thought, it would be necessary to allow tiny decals - weight tables and such. I don't think masks would be effective for such tiny things.
Best wishes
Modulla
nosewrit
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New York, United States
Joined: November 30, 2007
KitMaker: 86 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2012 - 12:58 AM UTC
Something maybe to include non-WWI? The forum states up to 1934. There may be fewer kits pre and post WWI, but those seem to be left out regularly. I'm not complaining - I love the WWI stuff!
NigelP
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2012 - 11:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Something maybe to include non-WWI? The forum states up to 1934. There may be fewer kits pre and post WWI, but those seem to be left out regularly. I'm not complaining - I love the WWI stuff!


I like the sound of that. Personally I find war-planes actually used for that purpose generally more interesting than standing (peace time) forces. It would be interesting to see what folks might come up with on, say, planes used in the (pre-1914)Italo-Turkish and Balkan Wars, and if nothing else kits for the planes used in the various conflicts that broke out around 1919 should be easy to source but would be in some less commonly seen markings (e.g. Polish, Greek, Turkish, Russian etc).
guitarlute101
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West Virginia, United States
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 - 04:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Something maybe to include non-WWI? The forum states up to 1934. There may be fewer kits pre and post WWI, but those seem to be left out regularly. I'm not complaining - I love the WWI stuff!


I like the sound of that. Personally I find war-planes actually used for that purpose generally more interesting than standing (peace time) forces. It would be interesting to see what folks might come up with on, say, planes used in the (pre-1914)Italo-Turkish and Balkan Wars, and if nothing else kits for the planes used in the various conflicts that broke out around 1919 should be easy to source but would be in some less commonly seen markings (e.g. Polish, Greek, Turkish, Russian etc).


That sounds great!

Mark
DougN1
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Georgia, United States
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 - 05:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Something maybe to include non-WWI? The forum states up to 1934. There may be fewer kits pre and post WWI, but those seem to be left out regularly. I'm not complaining - I love the WWI stuff!


I agree, it would be nice if the GB were to include something in addition to or other than WW1 types.

Doug
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 - 07:59 AM UTC
Ok there seems to be an inpression that we have been going with WWI subjects only in the Group Builds here. Let me post the rules from the first KotS.

The Rules and Regs
1. For the Aeroscale "Knights of the Sky" GB 2011 and we will open it to:
a. All builds.
b. All vendors.
c. All scales.
d. New.
e. In progress.
f. Unfinished hangar queens. But must be finished for this GB.
g. Injection moulded.
h. Vacuform plastic.
i. Resin, metal paper or wood. The components can be any combination thereof.
j. Kit conversions.
k. OOB.
l. Super detailed.
m.Prototypes or main production versions.
n. Colour scheme from a real subject and relevant to your build.
o. The build cannot have been used in another GB.

2. It must be a real Early Aviation subject up to 1934.

3. Each participant will submit a build thread (in Early Aviation title) a blog with images. Historical images of the original aircraft are a must to include. If the content meets conditions it will be considered for submission to Aeroscale for publishing as a front page Feature. A gallery will be set up for finished builds to be posted.

4. It will run from January 31st to December 31st 2011.

5. A campaign ribbon will be offered on completion.

6. Manufacturers will be approached and asked to honour the builder who uses their products in this GB build. There are no guarantees in this arena.

DougN1
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Georgia, United States
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KitMaker: 410 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 - 09:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ok there seems to be an inpression that we have been going with WWI subjects only in the Group Builds here. Let me post the rules from the first KotS.

The Rules and Regs
1. For the Aeroscale "Knights of the Sky" GB 2011 and we will open it to:
a. All builds.
b. All vendors.
c. All scales.
d. New.
e. In progress.
f. Unfinished hangar queens. But must be finished for this GB.
g. Injection moulded.
h. Vacuform plastic.
i. Resin, metal paper or wood. The components can be any combination thereof.
j. Kit conversions.
k. OOB.
l. Super detailed.
m.Prototypes or main production versions.
n. Colour scheme from a real subject and relevant to your build.
o. The build cannot have been used in another GB.

2. It must be a real Early Aviation subject up to 1934.

3. Each participant will submit a build thread (in Early Aviation title) a blog with images. Historical images of the original aircraft are a must to include. If the content meets conditions it will be considered for submission to Aeroscale for publishing as a front page Feature. A gallery will be set up for finished builds to be posted.

4. It will run from January 31st to December 31st 2011.

5. A campaign ribbon will be offered on completion.

6. Manufacturers will be approached and asked to honour the builder who uses their products in this GB build. There are no guarantees in this arena.



Stephen,

Thanks for the clarification, but I must tell you that the name itself (Knights of the Sky), does seem to imply WW1 subjects, as one would not normally refer to a post-war peacetime aircraft/pilot as a "KotS". In fact, not having read the rules for the first KotS GB, I thought exactly that, and seem to not be the only one based on the other thread responses

Doug
nosewrit
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New York, United States
Joined: November 30, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 - 10:07 AM UTC
Stephen,

My apologies, I had not read the rules. The title and the submitted work made me think it was WWI only...

Matt
warreni
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South Australia, Australia
Joined: August 14, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 - 12:25 PM UTC
Rules look fine to me Stephen, but please don't expect quite so many models this time..
Would be happy to review a kit for you.
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 - 01:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Rules look fine to me Stephen, but please don't expect quite so many models this time..
Would be happy to review a kit for you.


You write the review and I'll get it published for you!
lcarroll
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: July 26, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 - 02:58 PM UTC
Stephen,
Seems to me there's been a lot of enthusiastic and supportive feedback regarding a re-run of KoTS. I'd like to register a vote for a KoTS II using the rules you've posted, run it for 6 months maximum and we can work on the overlap/subsequent theme over the next several months.
I believe we need to keep our little specialty group stimulated; to that end an open arena such as this will optimise response and offers the most opportunity to participate to a vast cross section of our members. We can work as a community to "fine tune" the focus of another GB for April or later.
Any thoughts, anyone??

Cheers,
Lance
warreni
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South Australia, Australia
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Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 - 04:42 PM UTC
I like the 12 month option.. Although a 31 Dec12 finish would be better in my opinion.
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
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Posted: Monday, January 16, 2012 - 05:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for the clarification, but I must tell you that the name itself (Knights of the Sky), does seem to imply WW1 subjects, as one would not normally refer to a post-war peacetime aircraft/pilot as a "KotS". In fact, not having read the rules for the first KotS GB, I thought exactly that, and seem to not be the only one based on the other thread responses Doug


Ok, But as modelers what do we do first when cracking the box to begin a build? We read the instructions. When you say peace time post war lets think about that. There were major conflicts and battles all over the world upto and including 1938. There was the Bolshivek war red and white armies. The Gran Chaco War, China’s Air Forces in the Struggle Against Japan, Soviet Volunteer Group Over Formosa, German Air Combat School at Lipetsk (USSR) 1925-1930, The Bush Wars raged until their final days before WWII. From Moscow to South Africa peace was still a long way down the road.



JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
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Posted: Monday, January 16, 2012 - 06:03 PM UTC
The Proposed Rules and Regs"
1. For the Aeroscale "Knights of the Sky II" GB 2012 and we will open it to:
a. All aviation builds upto 1934.
b. All vendors.
c. All scales.
d. New have the option be finished for this GB with scale figure(s) incorporated into the build.
e. In progress builds must be finished for this GB with scale figure(s)incorporated into the build.
f. Unfinished hangar queens must be finished for this GB with scale figure(s)incorporated into the build.
g. Injection moulded.
h. Vacuform plastic.
i. Resin, metal paper or wood. The components can be any combination thereof.
j. Kit conversions.
k. OOB.
l. Super detailed.
m. Prototypes or main production versions.
n. Colour scheme from a real historical subject and relevant to your build.
o. The build cannot have been used in another GB.

2. It must be a real example of an Early Aviation subject up to 1934.

3. Each participant will submit a build thread (in Early Aviation title) a blog with images. Historical images of the original aircraft are a must to include. If the content meets conditions it will be considered for submission to Aeroscale for publishing as a front page Feature. A gallery will be set up for finished builds to be posted.

4. It will run from February 1st to August 31st 2012.

5. A campaign ribbon will be offered on completion.

6. Manufacturers will be approached and asked to honour the builder who uses their products in this GB build. There are no guarantees in this arena.

7. A gift of a new hobby item will be provided for the best aviation subject, best figure, creative presentation.
warreni
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South Australia, Australia
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Posted: Monday, January 16, 2012 - 07:06 PM UTC
Erm, this is an Aeroscale campaign. Where do figures come into it?
Kornbeef
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, January 16, 2012 - 07:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Erm, this is an Aeroscale campaign. Where do figures come into it?


Some might want to build a dio/vignette maybe? Though I've seen many fine figures posted here from time to time.
warreni
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South Australia, Australia
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Posted: Monday, January 16, 2012 - 08:16 PM UTC
I have no problem if people want to include figures, go right ahead, fill your boots, but I don't think it should be a requirement to enter a Aeroscale GB.
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