Proof of life
World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
P-61 Black widow group build
Keeperofsouls2099
Joined: January 14, 2009
KitMaker: 2,798 posts
AeroScale: 2,443 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 12:31 PM UTC
Proof of life
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 01:02 PM UTC
Justin, so you started your build.
I've not only moved the box to my work bench shelves, but I've actually opened it, and took a good look inside.
With the TBD-1 build nearing completion, (I've painted, and finished most of the weathering), I'm about ready to start my P-61 as I finish up. Like I said, I'm not going to start with the cockpit, just to add a little interest to our GB, as we're already knee deep in cockpits at the moment.
Joel
I've not only moved the box to my work bench shelves, but I've actually opened it, and took a good look inside.
With the TBD-1 build nearing completion, (I've painted, and finished most of the weathering), I'm about ready to start my P-61 as I finish up. Like I said, I'm not going to start with the cockpit, just to add a little interest to our GB, as we're already knee deep in cockpits at the moment.
Joel
Keeperofsouls2099
Joined: January 14, 2009
KitMaker: 2,798 posts
AeroScale: 2,443 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 03, 2013 - 01:47 PM UTC
Im tinkering with it when I come to a dry time on my YF-102A. I always start at the cockpit. That and the engines are my favorite part 
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Monday, November 04, 2013 - 03:06 AM UTC
My favorite model building functions are painting, decaling, and weathering. Now that just has to show you how lazy I really am. 
Joel
Joel
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 10:37 AM UTC
Well, the TBD-1 Devastator is on hold while I wait for a last min AM part from the Squadron shop. And being home from work today, I decided to start my GWH 1/48 scale P-61A.
As I said before, I thought I'd start my build by NOT working on the cockpit and the fuselage 1st, since everyone else is. With that in mind, I started with the engine/engine booms. My over all intentions is to add details where I can, and try to push my building skills to the next level. I've gathered more research information then I've ever done previously, read & studied several reviews and builds, as well as helping to create this unofficial GB concept with Justin.
Each of the engine booms on the lower front, has a grill plate that is just glued to solid plastic. Even when painted, there isn't a real sense of depth. So I decided to cut it out, & use some sheet HO 1x3's as tabs to create the illusion that there is actually something behind the grill. All I'm actually going to do is paint the entire area flat black.
Next was the start of the main landing gear housing assembly. Opposite where the gear actually goes, is a a section that has no detail, and several ejection pin sink holes. So I used some sheet plastic to form a new base, and some double HO 1x3s to create braces.
The rear of the boom is just an open affair. There should be former at the rear of the wheel, so I fashioned one out of sheet, and added some additional bracing to busy it up some.
Here's a picture from the wheel looking up and to the rear.
Doesn't seem like much work for a full afternoon. But that's all I got done.
Joel
As I said before, I thought I'd start my build by NOT working on the cockpit and the fuselage 1st, since everyone else is. With that in mind, I started with the engine/engine booms. My over all intentions is to add details where I can, and try to push my building skills to the next level. I've gathered more research information then I've ever done previously, read & studied several reviews and builds, as well as helping to create this unofficial GB concept with Justin.
Each of the engine booms on the lower front, has a grill plate that is just glued to solid plastic. Even when painted, there isn't a real sense of depth. So I decided to cut it out, & use some sheet HO 1x3's as tabs to create the illusion that there is actually something behind the grill. All I'm actually going to do is paint the entire area flat black.
Next was the start of the main landing gear housing assembly. Opposite where the gear actually goes, is a a section that has no detail, and several ejection pin sink holes. So I used some sheet plastic to form a new base, and some double HO 1x3s to create braces.
The rear of the boom is just an open affair. There should be former at the rear of the wheel, so I fashioned one out of sheet, and added some additional bracing to busy it up some.
Here's a picture from the wheel looking up and to the rear.
Doesn't seem like much work for a full afternoon. But that's all I got done.
Joel
Keeperofsouls2099
Joined: January 14, 2009
KitMaker: 2,798 posts
AeroScale: 2,443 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 01:19 PM UTC
Hey look who joined the party 
looks like you of to a good start so far
looks like you of to a good start so far Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 01:45 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey look who joined the party
Justin,
Couldn't let you have all the fun, now could I.
I'm waiting for a vacuum formed canopy from the Squadron shop for the TBD-1. There just wasn't any way to get the individual sections to stack, and I didn't want to close up the cockpit like I did on the Dauntless. Still might, if I screw up the vacuum formed one. Never tried this route before.
Joel
pzcreations
Joined: May 24, 2006
KitMaker: 2,106 posts
AeroScale: 47 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 02:40 AM UTC
heres a bit more on the 1/32 kit from HB..shes slowly making progress now... I made a poor attempt at painting the nose art..but it looked hideous so I contacted the Pinups plus to see about getting a decal..still waiting on their reply.
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 04:01 AM UTC
Tim,
Can't believe you've made that much progress, and on a 1/32 scale build to boot. So far, it's looking real good.
Joel
Can't believe you've made that much progress, and on a 1/32 scale build to boot. So far, it's looking real good.
Joel
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 04:05 AM UTC
Justin, took a look at the start of your cockpit. One issue that jumped out at me, that I would like to find a practical way to resolve, is the thickness of those seat bottoms. The easy way would be just to thin them out by sanding. But that would make the seat bottom to narrow and shallow, causing the bars of the seat to need to be bent in to be able to attach them. The other option, and the one that I think I'm going to try, is to thin the sides out from the inside out.
Joel
Joel
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 04:18 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Justin, took a look at the start of your cockpit. One issue that jumped out at me, that I would like to find a practical way to resolve, is the thickness of those seat bottoms. The easy way would be just to thin them out by sanding. But that would make the seat bottom to narrow and shallow, causing the bars of the seat to need to be bent in to be able to attach them. The other option, and the one that I think I'm going to try, is to thin the sides out from the inside out.
Joel
Depending on how the seats are moulded, another option is to use wine bottle foil. Burnish the foil over the bottom of the seat so it takes the shape, trim it out, then use that to replace the plastic seat bottom. It would be very fragile, but as long as it doesn't get bumped it would recreate the thin metal stampings quite well. Perhaps thin brass sheet might be a more sturdy alternative?
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 04:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextJustin, took a look at the start of your cockpit. One issue that jumped out at me, that I would like to find a practical way to resolve, is the thickness of those seat bottoms. The easy way would be just to thin them out by sanding. But that would make the seat bottom to narrow and shallow, causing the bars of the seat to need to be bent in to be able to attach them. The other option, and the one that I think I'm going to try, is to thin the sides out from the inside out.
Joel
Depending on how the seats are moulded, another option is to use wine bottle foil. Burnish the foil over the bottom of the seat so it takes the shape, trim it out, then use that to replace the plastic seat bottom. It would be very fragile, but as long as it doesn't get bumped it would recreate the thin metal stampings quite well. Perhaps thin brass sheet might be a more sturdy alternative?
Jessica,
Excellent suggestion. The outside dimensions would remain the same, as the scale thickness decreases drastically. Not sure that I would go with the foil as my 1st choice for the very reasons you mention. Brass seems too hard to work with. I think I'll cruise around Michaels art & crafts, and see if anything would be a better option. If not, then I'll try the foil. Maybe double it up to stiffen it up some.
Joel
pzcreations
Joined: May 24, 2006
KitMaker: 2,106 posts
AeroScale: 47 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 04:58 AM UTC
thanks Joel.
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 05:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Not sure that I would go with the foil as my 1st choice for the very reasons you mention. Brass seems too hard to work with. I think I'll cruise around Michaels art & crafts, and see if anything would be a better option. If not, then I'll try the foil. Maybe double it up to stiffen it up some.
It would definitely need to be a heavy foil and not kitchen tinfoil. Perhaps something like medicine tube foil, thin copper foil or the like.
Or an alternate method is to use the bottom of the seat as a mould for stretch-forming the seat pan from plastic card.
Keeperofsouls2099
Joined: January 14, 2009
KitMaker: 2,798 posts
AeroScale: 2,443 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 07:23 AM UTC
Might I suggest a soda can? 
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 08:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Might I suggest a soda can?
Justin, it's about time you joined the party. A soda can just might do it. Will be experimenting until I get it right.
Of course I've started my build with the engine & engine booms, so it's going to be quite a while till I get to the front office.
Will you be taking another look at those seats, or go with the stock versions?
Joel
Keeperofsouls2099
Joined: January 14, 2009
KitMaker: 2,798 posts
AeroScale: 2,443 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 08:58 AM UTC
Stock. By the time I'm done running wires and every thing else its just not a big issue for me. But just so you know there are enjection marks all over the place including the seats the back are actually thinner than they started out
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 - 09:07 AM UTC
Justin, looking forward to seeing your next update for the front office. Your game plan sounds good to me.
Joel
Joel
pzcreations
Joined: May 24, 2006
KitMaker: 2,106 posts
AeroScale: 47 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 10:00 AM UTC
Shes done!..sorry I came into this build late in the project..This has been one of those projects that I think "man..Im I EVER gonna finish this!"
The details just kept comin ..along with the snags and goofs... I dont know how the auto modelers get such shiny flawless finish,but after this I certainly respect them ....anyway..I was commissioned to build this by someone who has worked on the restoration ,which he wanted it to look as the restored a/c will look once finished, and in pristine finish too..not even exhaust stains...trust me..it wouldve been easier to weather this beast lol ..I also have to commend Hobbyboss..even with the inaccuracies and a few small fit problems (mostly due to the Avionix pit installed) it was a great model to build.
btw...someone pointed me to pinupsplus.com for the nose art decal... which I noticed on their website they have a sheet of 1/32 decals which had this one on it..though it was mirrored the opposite direction..I contacted them Saturday..and has the decal sheet in my hand on Tuesday...I couldnt believe how fast they adjusted the image and shipped it out! anyway..just wanted to give a good plug for them..
http://pinupsplus.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=47
The details just kept comin ..along with the snags and goofs... I dont know how the auto modelers get such shiny flawless finish,but after this I certainly respect them ....anyway..I was commissioned to build this by someone who has worked on the restoration ,which he wanted it to look as the restored a/c will look once finished, and in pristine finish too..not even exhaust stains...trust me..it wouldve been easier to weather this beast lol ..I also have to commend Hobbyboss..even with the inaccuracies and a few small fit problems (mostly due to the Avionix pit installed) it was a great model to build.
btw...someone pointed me to pinupsplus.com for the nose art decal... which I noticed on their website they have a sheet of 1/32 decals which had this one on it..though it was mirrored the opposite direction..I contacted them Saturday..and has the decal sheet in my hand on Tuesday...I couldnt believe how fast they adjusted the image and shipped it out! anyway..just wanted to give a good plug for them..
http://pinupsplus.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=47
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 10:38 AM UTC
Tim, congratulations on a truly outstanding build. I can't imagine how big that 1/32 scale P-61 is, as I'm still amazed at the size of the 1/48 scale GWH one I'm building.
As far as your finish goes, it looks fine for a Military gloss aircraft. I built race cars for a several years, and I can tell you that the process is completely different then painting a military model. Primer must be smooth as silk. Best paints are gloss lacquer applied at high pressure. Days to dry, then hand rubbed with fine emery paper 4,000 to 12,000 min grit. Then polishing compound, & finally polish. No wax needed as it yellows. Every single mistake shows up. But done right, you get that mile deep shine.
Looking forward to your 1/48 P-61B.
Joel
As far as your finish goes, it looks fine for a Military gloss aircraft. I built race cars for a several years, and I can tell you that the process is completely different then painting a military model. Primer must be smooth as silk. Best paints are gloss lacquer applied at high pressure. Days to dry, then hand rubbed with fine emery paper 4,000 to 12,000 min grit. Then polishing compound, & finally polish. No wax needed as it yellows. Every single mistake shows up. But done right, you get that mile deep shine.
Looking forward to your 1/48 P-61B.
Joel
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 11:11 AM UTC
First, some interior green needs to go on
cinzano
Joined: January 13, 2009
KitMaker: 419 posts
AeroScale: 378 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 11:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
First, some interior green needs to go on
Jessica,
You're a trooper (or a glutton for punishment) for tackling the old Monogram kit.
Question: Are you working with traditional enamels or are you using acrylic enamels? I notice you didn't prime the interior regions prior to spraying, hence the question.
Cheers,
Fred
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 12:19 PM UTC
This one's traditional as they get. It's my last tin of Humbrol interior green, and there's no primer because I'm using this coat as primer. There's a lot of detailing and such which is about to happen and I anticipate that this coat is going to be pretty much covered over by later coats, not to mention the detailing washes, highlighting and whatnot still to come
Keeperofsouls2099
Joined: January 14, 2009
KitMaker: 2,798 posts
AeroScale: 2,443 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 12:20 PM UTC
Sweet looking ride nice pin up
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 12:35 PM UTC
Jessica, looking forward to following your build on that Monogram kit. After seeing what Magnus is going through with his Monogram P-38, You're a way braver soul then I.
Justin, The TDB-1 build is officially in the books, and posted in my build blog, so it's now the P-61A gets my full attention. Gonna be one fun ride for sure.
Joel
Justin, The TDB-1 build is officially in the books, and posted in my build blog, so it's now the P-61A gets my full attention. Gonna be one fun ride for sure.
Joel
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