TUNNEL RAT 6
Just a quick pic showing installation of the rear bank of orygen bottles. There are 5 total here, plus 2 to be installed just behind the hatch opening.
I hasten to add that the bottles are practically invisible in the dark, but you can catch the outlines looking in.
I do expect to have the tunnel done this weekend. Then I will move to the correction work in the nose and cockpit. After that it's back to the radio room.
And yeah, I also have the sense that I'm truly overdoing it, because relatively little of all this will be visible from the outside. The good part of that is that it doesn't have to be perfect, though I really want to get the basic configurations of this build right.
The bad part is, obviously, how long this is taking and the opportunity cost, in terms of what else I could be doing. However, this is a once-in-a-lifetime project for me. Never again!
World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
1/48 B-17F Build - 303rd BGs Luscious Lady
Posted: Friday, September 11, 2015 - 05:11 PM UTC
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
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Posted: Friday, September 11, 2015 - 09:40 PM UTC
Brian,
I'm truly impressed at not only the level of detail, but how all the individual elements fit together. I'm just shall we say "Blown Away".
As for the never again, once you've reached this level of building, it's almost not possible to go back to just one OOB build after another. Yes, the occasional winding down, relaxing build, but you'll find that every major build will have a particular focus and objective. True, few if any will be as detailed as your B-17F, but who really knows?
Joel
I'm truly impressed at not only the level of detail, but how all the individual elements fit together. I'm just shall we say "Blown Away".
As for the never again, once you've reached this level of building, it's almost not possible to go back to just one OOB build after another. Yes, the occasional winding down, relaxing build, but you'll find that every major build will have a particular focus and objective. True, few if any will be as detailed as your B-17F, but who really knows?
Joel
Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2015 - 06:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Brian,
I'm truly impressed at not only the level of detail, but how all the individual elements fit together. I'm just shall we say "Blown Away".
As for the never again, once you've reached this level of building, it's almost not possible to go back to just one OOB build after another. Yes, the occasional winding down, relaxing build, but you'll find that every major build will have a particular focus and objective. True, few if any will be as detailed as your B-17F, but who really knows?
Joel
Aw Jeeze Joel, you do realize that you over-rate me as consistently as you under-rate yourself! That PV-1 is progressing very impressively.
As for me, there is no doubt that my skills have improved as a result of this build, but I take all "wow's" with a pinch of salt. I'll consider myself "really good" only if/when I can cast my own stuff and integrate it, or scratch-build in a way makes the entire kit just a shell. Look again at this incredible build of a Halifax Mk. II by Tsonos Megas.
Now that's a real master's work, and some of the guys who post here are capable of that sort of thing.
Still, I won't say that I'm not pleased with how the B-17 is going. See below in a little while.
Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2015 - 06:41 AM UTC
TUNNEL RAT 7
Well, I didn't finish the tunnel, but it's getting there. All oxygen bottles installed, a bit of wiring, and some girders simply because there was "something" like that in one of the pics Karl posted.
Here are two "open" pics.
And here are two closed ones:
The areas you see will get a light, sin-covering wash, probably burnt umber, and particularly in the hatch opening area.
The floor with nonskid still needs to be installed, and there is some gear to the right of the opening that will get a few things.
There is also work on the forward ceiling and the bulkhead that's visible when you look in: that light and switch. The stbd bulkhead will get a small section of girder and some piping as well.
Yes, it has occurred to me that the "closed" views I'm showing will be obstructed when the door is installed forward, but whatever. If someone wants to do a colonoscopy on the kit with special lighting they will see that "everything is where it should be," more or less.
Well, I didn't finish the tunnel, but it's getting there. All oxygen bottles installed, a bit of wiring, and some girders simply because there was "something" like that in one of the pics Karl posted.
Here are two "open" pics.
And here are two closed ones:
The areas you see will get a light, sin-covering wash, probably burnt umber, and particularly in the hatch opening area.
The floor with nonskid still needs to be installed, and there is some gear to the right of the opening that will get a few things.
There is also work on the forward ceiling and the bulkhead that's visible when you look in: that light and switch. The stbd bulkhead will get a small section of girder and some piping as well.
Yes, it has occurred to me that the "closed" views I'm showing will be obstructed when the door is installed forward, but whatever. If someone wants to do a colonoscopy on the kit with special lighting they will see that "everything is where it should be," more or less.
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2015 - 06:17 PM UTC
Brian,
The tunnel is looking exceedingly good. Your detailing has certainly reached the next level.
Joel
The tunnel is looking exceedingly good. Your detailing has certainly reached the next level.
Joel
Posted: Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 03:07 AM UTC
Tunnel RAT 8 - FLOOR INSTALLED
Herewith some open and closed shots of the tunnel with some extras added. I should definitely have the tunnel done this weekend.
Floor installed: of course there is some touch up paint to do.
I like the way the ribs extending from the side of the catwalk line up with the curved fuselage shell below.
Another shot showing some extra equipment added portside, just inside the door opening.
Same basic view taken with flash.
Busy enough for me!!
Herewith some open and closed shots of the tunnel with some extras added. I should definitely have the tunnel done this weekend.
Floor installed: of course there is some touch up paint to do.
I like the way the ribs extending from the side of the catwalk line up with the curved fuselage shell below.
Another shot showing some extra equipment added portside, just inside the door opening.
Same basic view taken with flash.
Busy enough for me!!
Posted: Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 04:59 AM UTC
That is a fantastic level of detail! Excellent!
18Bravo
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
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Joined: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 05:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Moving right along, I am switching to the starboard side of the nose and the bombardier's floor. I suppose it's not surprising that there is controversy about the interior colors of the B-17 since there were so many blocks of aircraft made by the three different manufacturers (Boeing, Vega, and Douglas). I myself like the IPMS Stockholm site's discussion of the subject and endorse their position that while the bulkheads in early B-17s were bronze green in the nose and cockpit, the floors were either metal with nonskid "or" plywood. But, as we know, that raises the question, where was the wood and where was the metal?
I've just seen your thread for the very first time. While I probably won't read the entire 27 pages any time soon, the above passage caught my eye. I've got some pretty good interior shots of the bomb bay on the Liberty Belle. I recall seeing plywood in there. Let me know if these could still be helpful.
KPHB17FE
Illinois, United States
Joined: January 12, 2015
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Posted: Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 05:31 AM UTC
And to confuse the issue, some floors went from metal (waist, navigators) to plywood as did the instrument panel frame, the tail gun ammo boxes and other items. This was to save valuable aluminum.
berndm
Niedersachsen, Germany
Joined: March 26, 2014
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Joined: March 26, 2014
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Posted: Sunday, September 20, 2015 - 03:15 AM UTC
You had hit the WOW effect of modelleing (again) very well Brian.
The amount of detail is breath-taking.
Bernd
The amount of detail is breath-taking.
Bernd
Posted: Sunday, September 20, 2015 - 10:39 PM UTC
QUESTION FOR KARL:
Do you have any tunnel ceiling details showing the full layout or more details above the gent's head in the picture? And what's all this stuff for? Looks like it's control cables from the cockpit columns above.
Do you have any tunnel ceiling details showing the full layout or more details above the gent's head in the picture? And what's all this stuff for? Looks like it's control cables from the cockpit columns above.
Posted: Monday, September 21, 2015 - 04:35 AM UTC
TUNNEL RAT 9 - A BIT MORE RESEARCH
"For educational purposes only" I am showing some pics taken from a "walkaround" site showing some details of the tunnel ceiling. the mission here will be "fool the eye!"
Basically, I need to busy up the ceiling with wires and stuff, I think, which approximates the first pic.
"For educational purposes only" I am showing some pics taken from a "walkaround" site showing some details of the tunnel ceiling. the mission here will be "fool the eye!"
Basically, I need to busy up the ceiling with wires and stuff, I think, which approximates the first pic.
Posted: Monday, September 21, 2015 - 06:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I've got some pretty good interior shots of the bomb bay on the Liberty Belle. I recall seeing plywood in there. Let me know if these could still be helpful.
Robert:
I have promised myself that the bomb-bay is done, but if you have any pics of the forward hatch and tunnel * * *
Brian
Posted: Monday, September 21, 2015 - 07:25 AM UTC
TUNNEL RAT 10 - WAAAAAAAAAAAAY TOO MUCH INFORMATION!
After doing some additional online research, I can upon a perfect shot of the tunnel roof. It looks like my prayers have been answered:
Just kidding, though it might as well be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Behold, from the Duxford "Mary Alice" restoration site:
How does it go: "Be careful what you wish for?"
But wait, there's more:
And in the ceiling just above the curtain to the bomb/nav space:
I think the only sane way to approach this is with some basic geometric shapes, and a "bunch of wires" representing control cables, electrical wiring and some piping. Trying to do this in 1/48 would be sheer madness. I'm also electing not to put those two bottles in there, unless Karl confirms that they are original equipment. Engine fire extinguisher bottles, or were those in the wings?
A minor blessing in the very limited visibility, which I will take full advantage of.
After doing some additional online research, I can upon a perfect shot of the tunnel roof. It looks like my prayers have been answered:
Just kidding, though it might as well be the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Behold, from the Duxford "Mary Alice" restoration site:
How does it go: "Be careful what you wish for?"
But wait, there's more:
And in the ceiling just above the curtain to the bomb/nav space:
I think the only sane way to approach this is with some basic geometric shapes, and a "bunch of wires" representing control cables, electrical wiring and some piping. Trying to do this in 1/48 would be sheer madness. I'm also electing not to put those two bottles in there, unless Karl confirms that they are original equipment. Engine fire extinguisher bottles, or were those in the wings?
A minor blessing in the very limited visibility, which I will take full advantage of.
KPHB17FE
Illinois, United States
Joined: January 12, 2015
KitMaker: 292 posts
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Joined: January 12, 2015
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Posted: Monday, September 28, 2015 - 06:37 AM UTC
Those bottles are indeed for the engine fire extinguishing system but were not located as in the photos until the late G models. So they would not have been located there on your F. On the F, they were inside the right wing root where they would not be seen. I have been a bit out of touch for a most excellent reason: I was in New Orleans attending the reunion of the 100th Bomb Group😀! It is a great honor to spend time with these great folks!!!
Posted: Monday, September 28, 2015 - 07:28 AM UTC
Glad to have you back and sounds like you had a great time! Thanks for keeping me from error on the bottles. I did read something about the F being better than the G here, which apparently in early models deleted this system?!!
"Another serious problem on the B-17G was the lack of an engine fire extinguisher system. Designers had believed that it was ineffective so had left it out of the new model. In reality, the system had worked well and it was requested by Bomber Groups that it be re-introduced as soon as possible." http://www.b17bomber.de/eng/versionen/b17g2.php
"Another serious problem on the B-17G was the lack of an engine fire extinguisher system. Designers had believed that it was ineffective so had left it out of the new model. In reality, the system had worked well and it was requested by Bomber Groups that it be re-introduced as soon as possible." http://www.b17bomber.de/eng/versionen/b17g2.php
Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2015 - 11:24 PM UTC
TUNNEL RAT 11 THE CEILING
The past two weeks were rough in my day job, and I was too burned out over the weekends to do anything. Also, I needed to "think through" the next steps.
I think the "thinking part" is done, more or less, and I have started.
First, I had to tear out the ceiling I had installed earlier. Couldn't be helped. This is going to be a modular, slide-it-in piece of work.
From below you can see I have already started on the boxlike structure that holds all those pulleys, which is in the ceiling just above the entrance to the bombardier/navigator compartment:
In the next shot you will see how it will fit into the ceiling.
Lastly, as an inspiration piece, I am throwing in a genuine Wright Cyclone piston. For a brief period during my career at Curtiss-Wright, I was actually the attorney for their legacy, "Wright Aeronautical" engine parts business. I don't know whether this piston belongs to an R-1820 or R-3350 however.
More soon.
The past two weeks were rough in my day job, and I was too burned out over the weekends to do anything. Also, I needed to "think through" the next steps.
I think the "thinking part" is done, more or less, and I have started.
First, I had to tear out the ceiling I had installed earlier. Couldn't be helped. This is going to be a modular, slide-it-in piece of work.
From below you can see I have already started on the boxlike structure that holds all those pulleys, which is in the ceiling just above the entrance to the bombardier/navigator compartment:
In the next shot you will see how it will fit into the ceiling.
Lastly, as an inspiration piece, I am throwing in a genuine Wright Cyclone piston. For a brief period during my career at Curtiss-Wright, I was actually the attorney for their legacy, "Wright Aeronautical" engine parts business. I don't know whether this piston belongs to an R-1820 or R-3350 however.
More soon.
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2015 - 02:41 AM UTC
Brian,
Nice to see that you're back at the bench. Your start looks rather promising. Nice inspiration piece.
Joel
Nice to see that you're back at the bench. Your start looks rather promising. Nice inspiration piece.
Joel
Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2015 - 03:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Brian,
Nice to see that you're back at the bench. Your start looks rather promising. Nice inspiration piece.
Joel
Thanks Joel. I'll be doing more tonight.
Here I need to strike the right balance between detail and visibility. I am anxious to get back the the nose and do the drift-meter, then clean up the cockpit one final time.
I'm trying to hard avoid a "Groundhog Day" feeling about all this, but I do think the open tunnel, and the corrections in the nose are important for an accurate "F" model.
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2015 - 03:57 AM UTC
Brian,
Seems to me that there shouldn't be what I would call a groundhog day feeling, since the tunnel is open, lighted, and has plenty of detail. Besides, the tunnel is an important element to the inside of the B-17F.
Joel
Seems to me that there shouldn't be what I would call a groundhog day feeling, since the tunnel is open, lighted, and has plenty of detail. Besides, the tunnel is an important element to the inside of the B-17F.
Joel
Posted: Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 07:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Brian,
Seems to me that there shouldn't be what I would call a groundhog day feeling, since the tunnel is open, lighted, and has plenty of detail. Besides, the tunnel is an important element to the inside of the B-17F.
Joel
Hey Joel, I was referring to this Groundhog Day
Posted: Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 07:35 AM UTC
TUNNEL RAT 12 - GEARING UP
A theme photo to start:
Do this:
I'm trying:
Clearly a work in progress, but tomorrow I should have a fair amount of time to continue. It actually looks better in real life, and will look better still with some cables installed, other "stuff" about and with paint. Plus, it's in the dark.
A theme photo to start:
Do this:
I'm trying:
Clearly a work in progress, but tomorrow I should have a fair amount of time to continue. It actually looks better in real life, and will look better still with some cables installed, other "stuff" about and with paint. Plus, it's in the dark.
Posted: Saturday, October 10, 2015 - 11:18 PM UTC
TUNNEL RAT 13 - DANCING ON THE CEILING
I expect to have this painted, and to have control cables and electrical wiring, installed today. The pulley box will be interior green and the rest aluminum. I have not seen a single pulley box that wasn't green.
Two views:
I expect to have this painted, and to have control cables and electrical wiring, installed today. The pulley box will be interior green and the rest aluminum. I have not seen a single pulley box that wasn't green.
Two views:
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Monday, October 12, 2015 - 01:18 AM UTC
Brian,
Now that's detailing to the very extreme. I'm more then just impressed.
Joel
Now that's detailing to the very extreme. I'm more then just impressed.
Joel
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2015 - 01:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Brian,
Now that's detailing to the very extreme. I'm more then just impressed.
Joel
Trust me, it's really just a mind-numbing, one-small-step-at-a-time exercise of thinking through how to glue little pieces of spare plastic and wire together. You have to look at things like the pulley box as a "little kit" and go from there. Almost anybody can do this. No "advanced modeling skills" required.