World War II
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1/48 B-17F Build - 303rd BGs Luscious Lady
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, October 12, 2015 - 02:13 AM UTC

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Brian,
Now that's detailing to the very extreme. I'm more then just impressed.
Joel



Trust me, it's really just a mind-numbing, one-small-step-at-a-time exercise of thinking through how to glue little pieces of spare plastic and wire together. You have to look at things like the pulley box as a "little kit" and go from there. Almost anybody can do this. No "advanced modeling skills" required.



Brian,
Nope. I don't buy that for a second. You're being way to modest.

I've seen guys that scratch build 1/8 scale Porsche race cars with nothing but hand tools. They can visualize how to build up a gearbox and engine from bits and pieces, and think that everyone can do the same. The same goes for your scratch building. You visualize each scratch part in its various elements. Not all of us can do that.

I struggled to do just a so so job on the main wheel wells of the PV-1.

Joel
Redhand
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Posted: Monday, October 12, 2015 - 04:24 PM UTC

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I struggled to do just a so so job on the main wheel wells of the PV-1.

Joel



Now who's being way too modest? I suppose I've said before that this build has truly improved my own modeling skills. But it has been a struggle. I knew there was going to be a huge time commitment and with my very busy work schedule, that it would take a long time.

Having it drag on for years has been disheartening at times, and the encouragement that you and others provide helps keep me going. I do think I'm near the end of this tunnel, and I'm looking forward to fixing the nose and pilots' compartment then getting back to the radio room.

THE milestone in this build will be getting the fuselage together! Only then, pardon the pun, do I think that I will see some real light at the end of the tunnel.
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 - 05:44 AM UTC

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I struggled to do just a so so job on the main wheel wells of the PV-1.

Joel



Now who's being way too modest? I suppose I've said before that this build has truly improved my own modeling skills. But it has been a struggle. I knew there was going to be a huge time commitment and with my very busy work schedule, that it would take a long time.

Having it drag on for years has been disheartening at times, and the encouragement that you and others provide helps keep me going. I do think I'm near the end of this tunnel, and I'm looking forward to fixing the nose and pilots' compartment then getting back to the radio room.

THE milestone in this build will be getting the fuselage together! Only then, pardon the pun, do I think that I will see some real light at the end of the tunnel.



Brian,
I'm not being modest, just truthful. I know my limitations and would never have contemplated a build project like you've taken on.

Yeah, it's been a long build to date for sure. I should know as I've been with you since day one, and will be with you till you finally cross the finish line. And like you, I'm really looking forward to you buttoning up the fuselage, as that would be the half point. Wings, wheel wells are the other half, but should prove to be easier and quicker. Once Luscious Lady has been primed, it's all down hill from there. That's not saying that painting and weathering is a 1-2-3 process, but I don't see any real issues after seeing several of your previous aircraft paint schemes.
Joel
Redhand
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Posted: Sunday, October 25, 2015 - 07:00 AM UTC
TUNNEL RAT 14 - CEILING INSTALLED

Finally. I do like the look of the green pulley box and the wires, and the ceiling detail in the foreground. To me it's definitely "busy" and "close enough."





Here's a view with the fuselage halves joined.



If I may say so myself, this is a nice complement to the bomb bay, and will suggest that "superdetailing" isn't limited to that space.

Let me say again that I never dreamed I would be getting this OCD when I started this, but I am enjoying the ride for the first time in quite a while.

There are a few small but highly visible details I'll be adding to the forward and aft bulkheads just inside the hatch, then it's back to the nose and that "driftmeter," with some other stuff shifted a bit to make room for it.
GazzaS
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Posted: Sunday, October 25, 2015 - 09:31 AM UTC
Well, it may be OCD, but it looks damn impressive.

Gary
FredrikA
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Posted: Sunday, October 25, 2015 - 11:16 AM UTC
Fascinating build to follow and most impressive! I really enjoy following your updates and your reasoning about them and future steps.
/Fredrik
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, October 25, 2015 - 06:27 PM UTC
Brian,
The pulley box came out perfect. Once installed it really does make quite a difference, and does fool ones eye to just how much extra detail the compartment does contain. The picture with the fuselage closed up was a real treat to see what we'll eventually be looking at and through to that area of the interior.

After the drift meter build and install, will it finally be time to close up the fuselage for good?

Joel
Redhand
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Posted: Sunday, October 25, 2015 - 06:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Brian,
The pulley box came out perfect. Once installed it really does make quite a difference, and does fool ones eye to just how much extra detail the compartment does contain. The picture with the fuselage closed up was a real treat to see what we'll eventually be looking at and through to that area of the interior.

After the drift meter build and install, will it finally be time to close up the fuselage for good?

Joel



I wish! I have to fix up the cockpit (again!) -- to be discussed later -- finish the radio room, and do everything aft of it, including the ball turret. Lots of work. But, I asked for it. No one will be happier than I will be to get the fuselage together!
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, October 25, 2015 - 06:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text


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Brian,
The pulley box came out perfect. Once installed it really does make quite a difference, and does fool ones eye to just how much extra detail the compartment does contain. The picture with the fuselage closed up was a real treat to see what we'll eventually be looking at and through to that area of the interior.

After the drift meter build and install, will it finally be time to close up the fuselage for good?

Joel



I wish! I have to fix up the cockpit (again!) -- to be discussed later -- finish the radio room, and do everything aft of it, including the ball turret. Lots of work. But, I asked for it. No one will be happier than I will be to get the fuselage together!



This build is certainly turning into one of the most complex builds I've ever seen or followed. Just having the fortitude to continue and stay focused on the build is way beyond my capabilities. Heck. I'm already starting to plan out my next build after the PV-1.

And speaking of the PV-1, I'm not doing much to the top turret as the focus is a exterior display piece on a mirror. Like anyone will ever see it once it's finished. Although, I'm actually contemplating the region 1 Noreastcon, since it will be held on LI by the Suffolk club.

Joel
Redhand
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Posted: Sunday, October 25, 2015 - 07:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text



This build is certainly turning into one of the most complex builds I've ever seen or followed. Just having the fortitude to continue and stay focused on the build is way beyond my capabilities. Heck. I'm already starting to plan out my next build after the PV-1.

And speaking of the PV-1, I'm not doing much to the top turret as the focus is a exterior display piece on a mirror. Like anyone will ever see it once it's finished. Although, I'm actually contemplating the region 1 Noreastcon, since it will be held on LI by the Suffolk club.

Joel



The staying focused part is the toughest, and it's only because of the project's history that I do so. (I do want a B-17F, sooner or later). But yeah, I am very conscious of both the actuarial factor and opportunity costs on other builds.

For me the toughest things coming up after this will be the [open? ] ball turret and the wheel wells. The priority task now is to finish up forward once and for all, and get the radio room done.

When is northeastcon? I don't usually go to contests. I think the kit PV-1 turret is more than adequate. You should enter this bird!
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, October 26, 2015 - 12:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text



This build is certainly turning into one of the most complex builds I've ever seen or followed. Just having the fortitude to continue and stay focused on the build is way beyond my capabilities. Heck. I'm already starting to plan out my next build after the PV-1.

And speaking of the PV-1, I'm not doing much to the top turret as the focus is a exterior display piece on a mirror. Like anyone will ever see it once it's finished. Although, I'm actually contemplating the region 1 Noreastcon, since it will be held on LI by the Suffolk club.

Joel



The staying focused part is the toughest, and it's only because of the project's history that I do so. (I do want a B-17F, sooner or later). But yeah, I am very conscious of both the actuarial factor and opportunity costs on other builds.

For me the toughest things coming up after this will be the [open? ] ball turret and the wheel wells. The priority task now is to finish up forward once and for all, and get the radio room done.

When is northeastcon? I don't usually go to contests. I think the kit PV-1 turret is more than adequate. You should enter this bird!




Brian,
Here's the blurb from the club's web site:

Noreastcon 45 Regional Contest
The Long Island Scale Model Society once again is proud to announce that we are hosting the IPMS Noreastcon 45, Friday April 29 & 30, 2016, model Competition and show. It will be at a new location with a different atmosphere, The Museum of American Armor. 1303 Round Swamp Road, Old Bethpage, NY 11804.

I haven't been a member of the club since the late 70s. Every once in a while I do bump into one of the very old original members. God, did we all age. Why not make a day or overnight. There are dozens of hotels and motels.

Just might enter the PV-1 for the heck of it.

Joel
Redhand
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Posted: Monday, October 26, 2015 - 07:53 AM UTC
Thanks Gary and Fredrik. I appreciate your interest, and am pleased that you find my "planning" comments useful. It makes sense to me to share the "figuring it out" part as well as the results.

Cheers!

Brian
Redhand
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Posted: Friday, October 30, 2015 - 05:38 PM UTC
TUNNEL RAT 15 - THE RAT FINALLY ESCAPES

I'm done with this. I added some details on the forward bulkhead just inside the opening



and a light on the after bulkhead:



Now it's back to the forward compartment where I took out some stuff



to rearrange things in there



and make room for the large driftmeter.




As you can see, I've made no effort to pretty things up. Hard to do with megapixel digital pics and besides, "it is what it is." I only hope in the end it will all come together well enough to be have been worth the effort. For me, the jury is out on this. It's a long bet.

KPHB17FE
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Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2015 - 12:21 AM UTC
Well, I am betting on you! Looking good, can't wait to see the front end redone.
Redhand
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Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2015 - 12:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well, I am betting on you! Looking good, can't wait to see the front end redone.



You must be prescient and I am clearly crazy. Do send me some pics of a B-17 nose with the insulated walls, please. Hint: No going back now!
KPHB17FE
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Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2015 - 03:17 AM UTC
Here is an F with the fabric still in place at the navigators station (although further review shows the fabric missing from the lower right) but missing and showing the insulation at the bombardiers station:



This is an E but the fabric shows quite well:



Here is a great (if somewhat dark) color shot of the navigators station. Could be an E or an early F, this area was the same from the factory:

Redhand
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Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2015 - 03:50 AM UTC
Good. I'll be a while, but * * *
Bjreg3
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Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 06:27 AM UTC
Brian, what a beautiful build. I can't say enough how much I'm impressed with your thoroughness. You sir are a master!
Redhand
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Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 05:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Brian, what a beautiful build. I can't say enough how much I'm impressed with your thoroughness. You sir are a master!



Bob, Thanks so much for the kind words, though I'm hardly a "master" at this, just a bit crazed.

I AM redoing the nose in light of new info I've received about the floor configuration and the bulkheads. I should have some pics up relatively soon showing this. The plan on this bird was always to make it as "true to life" as possible, "whatever the cost." That has led to multiple re-dos of the forward section and my own species of OCD. When I started I had no idea what I was really getting myself into; the build just "grow'd like Topsy."

I've had tons of help from others on the technical side, and from a friend in NC whose inputs are flagged along the way. So I'm not taking credit for all of this.

At this point "the plan" is to get the fuselage interior done by next May. Then I will spend a few days with my friend gluing the damn thing together, including the cockpit roof and the radio room roof. Only when that's done will I feel I'm even close to the halfway point.

Thanks for watching!
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 10:16 PM UTC
Brian,
Now I'm looking forward to May not only as the official start of spring, but to finally see the fuselage halves glued up. Going to be one long winter.
Joel
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Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 - 02:32 AM UTC
Wow grazy

on a positve way.

gr TC
Redhand
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Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 - 08:53 PM UTC
IN CASE YOU WERE WONDERING

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone in the States and my best wishes to my modeling friends abroad.

So, like, I disclosed that I ripped out the nose I had so painstakingly built two years ago. (Yes, I'm afraid that's right, it has to be a couple of years ago).

So I went from this



To this



And yes, in between I did have a few "my God, what have I done!?" moments



The elusive goal remains, more or less, to accurately replicate the interior of a B-17 F in the nose. I know far more now about that than I did when I started. The major misconception I made, and that I think most modelers make, is that the F model looked just like a G model on the inside, but without a chin turret. And it ain't so.

Here is what I am now trying to replicate, going beyond the fact that the F model I am doing did not have exposed ribbing but rather fabric and insulation on the bulkheads.



Here is another general layout view from a Boeing drawing:



One difference right away I need to point out is that this aircraft will have the large drift meter, so there will be some configuration changes.

When the bulkheads are redone they will look something like the ones in the radio room.



You will recall that I achieve this effect by using 600 grit sandpaper that was sprayed with Tamiya 1000 gray primer covered with the spray of light olive drab. That's what the bulkheads in the nose will look like.

So, how to accomplish this?

The first time around I cut the side windows out separately and glued them in separately. Frankly, I wasn't especially happy with it, and this time I decided to make a virtue of necessity by going with the original large plastic pieces. As you can see from the below photo



I pinned this part to the fuselage with metal pins between the windows. I then decided that the best way to make it flush was to build up the surrounding bulkhead space so that it was flush with the window parts. This way I can cut out and apply the 600 grit sandpaper to an even surface around the windows; and the sandpaper itself will create the impression of a slight indentation between the bulkhead on the windows. I'm not going for complete accuracy here, just the illusion. No way am I going to put individual rivets around the window borders. I'm already mad enough doing this.

Let's now talk about the floor configuration and other major changes in the interior.

First, take a look at this old photo of the Memphis Belle bombardier floor that was taken by Karl many moons ago.



What we see right off is that the floor is split down the middle so that it is really cut into thirds, plywood on the left, an open hole with brackets for a sliding "bombardier chair" in the middle, and the last third also covered with plywood. This I will also replicate with the new floor. Karl has been kind enough to provide some details that I will disclose later.

One thing you can see now is that the nose and chin of Memphis Belle are far different from the G version.




For one, the plywood floor actually extends beyond the nose opening (I will do this) and the details below the base for the bomb sight are totally different from those on the G model. No large round holes punched in metal that fits up against the chin.



So, since this is so visible, I will replicate it.

Let's go back to seating arrangements for the bombardier.

As we know from the technical documentation posted by Karl, the F model bombardier seat was removed and the seat for the Navigator was removed. Close scrutiny of the below picture shows that on the bombardier floor the hole where the bombardier seat used to be is stuffed with seat cushions. I will do the same, using the Eduard seat covers with the "US Air Corps" stenciling on them.



I also pulled out and removed the Navigator seat (and floor) and made that area flush. It's clear that the Navigator could not have used his tools kneeling because of the height of the tabletop, so in this case I am going to make his "seat" an ammo box and then put seat cushions on top of that as with the bombardier. Should make for a nice, interesting display.

Finally, let's talk about changes needed for the bombardier equipment.

The basic bombardier control panel shown in the above picture will remain the same. But what I will not replicate is the bomb release equipment that is characteristic of G models, not F's. Check out that round thing forward of the bombardier panel in the below picture:





Unfortunately, that's not the way the bomb release equipment was configured in the F model.

Closer study of the B-17 F pilots' manual shows that it looked like this:



Frankly, a couple of years ago I would've shrunk in horror at the thought of replicating this. But, with my new mad "skillz" honed on this build, I'm going to give it a shot. (I say this half in jest, but the truth is that until this build I would've never dreamed of attempting some of the stuff I'm doing now).

As near as I can tell, the above equipment was immediately forward of the B-17 F bombardier panel pictured below.



Finally, if you look to the right rear of the below photo you will see some additional structures on the rear bulkhead and floor that I will replicate in the model.



I think that about sums it up. Since this rebuild represents a real challenge, I'm not as bored and tired of the project as I was a while back. I'm kind of looking forward to the opportunity to "get it right" within the limits of 1/48 scale. I may take some liberties with the actual configuration, of course, because "it's only a model."
Merlin
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Posted: Thursday, November 26, 2015 - 03:03 AM UTC
Hi Brian

Beautiful work, as ever! While it's so tempting for modellers to show ribs and stringers for maximum effect, it's great to see the proper insulation that's so often missed.

All the best

Rowan
Redhand
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Posted: Friday, November 27, 2015 - 03:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Brian

Beautiful work, as ever! While it's so tempting for modellers to show ribs and stringers for maximum effect, it's great to see the proper insulation that's so often missed.

All the best

Rowan



Thank you Rowan! Means a lot coming from you.

Yeah, it was "the right thing to do." Karl Hauffe is helping with interior details of the F so stay tuned!

Best,

Brian
Redhand
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Posted: Sunday, December 13, 2015 - 08:10 AM UTC
WALLPAPERING

No, I didn't give up. I have been busy at my day job and, naturally, there is also an inspirational lapse when one finds oneself redoing something from scratch. Anyway, I have completed surrounding the glued-in kit windows with sheet styrene, and the next step will be gluing in olive drab painted 600 grit sandpaper to simulate the fabric that covered the inner bulkheads of "Luscious Lady."

Here is what the starboard bulkhead looks like now:



Some idea of the methodology I've employed in cutting out the styrene strips can be seen from the below photo, where I literally traced around the edges of the clear plastic piece to make a template.



And here is what the port bulkhead looks like now:



I'm going to cut the olive drab sandpaper in pieces as large as I can to create as few seams as possible, though there obviously will be some. I'll be interested to see how the effect is when it covers the plastic parts in between the windows.

I might've tried a different approach if I hadn't gotten as far in the first build of the nose, i.e. I would have just left the bulkheads bare and figured out another way to deal with the windows, but the windows are actually quite nice as is because I didn't get any glue on them, and they will look 100% better when the finger grease and smudges are cleaned off.

Here is a hint of the effect I'm going for in this annotated photo I sent Karl asking some questions. For this build I have decided to wallpaper the entire nose ceiling including the forward-most window and I won't be installing those counterbalance cords, opting for springs of some kind instead.



Things will start to get fun again once the olive drab fabric walls are completed and I can start on the equipment that goes in the nose. From what I know now, the nose will appear very, very different from what we see in a typical "G" nose.

Of course, getting it right was the objective from Day One. Stay tuned.