Cold War (1950-1974)
Discuss the aircraft modeling subjects during the Cold War period.
Hosted by Tim Hatton
Italeri 1/32 Mirage IIIc
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Monday, October 03, 2016 - 08:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi guys

Well, its not perfect but I hope it'll do the job. There are now many small imperfections around this kit after all the work needed. I've grown to accept compromises that I wouldn't have tolerated at the beginning....


Joel, thanks as ever for sharing the journey. By the way you seem to be able to comment on every blog on this site. Wow, you are busy man but your effort is really appreciated....

Happy modelling guys.

S



Steve,
It sure does seem that way at times. But truth be told I decided to run the overnight crews at my 24 hour pharmacy, rather then continue with the dreaded day shifts, and I only work 4 days per week, which is my semi retirement deal although my wife hates it. So I'm online most mornings having coffee as I'm up by 10:30 even though I don't go to bed till 7-7:30 on work days. I do sleep over the weekends like a normal person.

Anyway, I have little difficulty in covering the 4 forums here that I have an interest in. Usually it only takes me 30-45 min so and I'm off site as Aeroscale isn't exactly one of the busier modeling sites. I use Notifications, and I do check my email during the day, so I can keep current as I deem appropriate.

Joel



SteveAndrews
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 551 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 12:45 PM UTC
Hey Joel

It sounds like you have life sorted, and good for you. I'm at least 13 years from retirement and trying to be a part-time single dad, full time worker and modelling blogger. A glass of wine now and then helps.

I have to say this is the only forum I've really felt at home on so far, so thanks again to you and all the other guys who make it happen.

Have fun with the pharmaceuticals :-)

Steve
SteveAndrews
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 551 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 01:15 AM UTC
Oh yes! Do you ever have moments when things just work out; moments when you are left basking in a rather unhealthy level of self-satisfaction? Well, burst my pride with a bent pitot tube, but I’m having one now. The Kristal Klear dried - yes, you guessed it - crystal clear. The panel responded nicely to some Tamiya polishing compound, and a little reinforcing I did with Tamiya masking tape kept everything in place during the work. Now, its all polished and masked. Ha! Take that gremlins. So - not wishing to tempt fate - it should be fairly easy progress from here, and the construction will be, dare I say it… finished.





KelticKnot
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: May 11, 2015
KitMaker: 768 posts
AeroScale: 656 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 02:43 AM UTC
Congrats Steve, theres an odd sense of satisfaction in fixing these situations where the casual viewer wont know there was a problem in the first place.

I once worked in the tv and animation industry and spent countless hours fixing stuff like badly shot footage. The client never knew that the problems existed and you were secretly satisfied with a job well done when they didnt even remark on it!

But we all know the trials of this kit now and i say Well done!
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 09:48 PM UTC
Steve,
In all my years of modeling, I've never seen anyone actually fix or repair a broken canopy or windscreen. You've certainly reached Hallow Ground. Well done my friend, very well done.
Joel
GazzaS
#424
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Queensland, Australia
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
AeroScale: 1,938 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 06, 2016 - 12:33 PM UTC
Well, Steve...
I hafta say I am impressed!

Gaz
SteveAndrews
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 551 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 06, 2016 - 04:42 PM UTC
Hi guys

Well wow. Thanks so much. I have to say that this kit has pushed me to attempt things I never would have on a better model. The fear of failure is low because disaster has always seemed a step away!

Thanks again. I hope I wont be venturing into uncharted territory any more, but never say never.

Happy modelling

Steve
SteveAndrews
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 551 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 08, 2016 - 07:49 PM UTC
Paint; the final frontier. These are the voyages of the airbrush Evolution. Her 45 minute mission to boldly spray Ultimate Primer where none has been sprayed before…

With so much itchy scratchy work done on the surface of the Mirage, I decided some time ago that I was going to use UMP’s primer. Its basically Badger Stynylrez repackaged, and if the Youtube films I’d seen were anything to go by, it was just what I needed. The product itself is thick and needs to be spayed through a 0.3mm needle at least. My Harder and Steinbeck airbrush had a 0.4 mm needle already in place, so I shook well and dropped some gloop into the cup. Spraying at 25psi the first pass made me go cold. It looks awful - lots of spatter - just what you’d expect from a thick paint. But then something magic happens. As it dries it goes beautifully smooth and takes on a lovely satin finish. I won’t say its fool proof but it is really hard to mess up.

I sprayed the entire kit in black except for the sidewinders which got a coat of white. As you know this kit has hard a life during construction but I think the shots below show you how good to product the Universal Primer/Stynylrez is. I helped it along by gently cleaning the entire thing with alcohol applied using an old cotton t-shirt, prior to spraying. The t-shirt has mild abrasive properties, so it helps to smooth out the smallest imperfections and buff the surface.

Here she is looking all black and moody and ready for some metallic deliciousness, and there's some background music to look by

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pta-gf6JaHQ









redcap
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: November 06, 2005
KitMaker: 753 posts
AeroScale: 311 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 09, 2016 - 02:35 PM UTC
Great stuff Steve as you start on the home run. Your determination to keep going in the face of modelling adversity is most impressive.

Cheers mate.
Gary
SteveAndrews
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 551 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 09, 2016 - 04:02 PM UTC
Hi Gary

It's been a journey that's for sure, but the part I really enjoy is about to start - the painting and weathering. I actually feel excited again - just like I did when I first unboxed this kit.

Its great to have you and the other guys looking in and offering encouragement.

Happy modelling.

Steve
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 09, 2016 - 11:14 PM UTC
Steve,
Checkout my Mossie build as I just posted my Black Basing primer update. Up until now I've done the reverse with gray primer and black blotches. This time I've gone the fully "Monty" and primed the entire Mossie in MIG AMMO Black acrylic primer, but I still thinned it 1:1 with Tamiya X20-A. It air brushed perfectly at 18 psi.

Why didn't you just thin the primer since it was so thick? I know it self leveled, but it would have done the same thing thinned out, but giving you more control while applying less primer. Self leveling seems to be a common trait with all primers in general.

Joel
SteveAndrews
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 551 posts
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2016 - 04:49 PM UTC
Hi Joel

I just had a look and left you a message. Great work on a great model!

I didn't thin the UMP Primer because all the advice I took said don't do it. It has actually dried very well - smooth and satin with no lost detail, but it has covered little scratches. It's just the application that is unexpected, but it does seem to work very well neat.

I'm going to use post shading and some experiments with matt and gloss varnishes to see what kind of effects I can get on the Mirage. I'll test a few before I apply them to the kit to make sure I don't mess up.

Watch this space for the lab tests :-)

Happy modelling.

Steve
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2016 - 08:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Joel

I just had a look and left you a message. Great work on a great model!

I didn't thin the UMP Primer because all the advice I took said don't do it. It has actually dried very well - smooth and satin with no lost detail, but it has covered little scratches. It's just the application that is unexpected, but it does seem to work very well neat.

I'm going to use post shading and some experiments with matt and gloss varnishes to see what kind of effects I can get on the Mirage. I'll test a few before I apply them to the kit to make sure I don't mess up.

Watch this space for the lab tests :-)

Happy modelling.

Steve



Steve,
Since I've never used Badger's Stynylrez primer, I just assumed that one thins it like every other primer. After reading your comment on it's not recommended to thin, I did a Google search, and that's about the general conscientious of opinion if one has a .4mm needle and a compressor that can pump out 25-30 flow psi.

Another Google search on Acrylic primers in general said not to thin them if possible. I use both Tamiya lacquer primers, and MIG Acrylic primers, and have always thinned both. I'm going to try the MIG primer straight at 25-30 psi since it's pretty thin straight from the bottle. Tamiya's lacquer primers are thick as they're also a filler, and do need thinning.

The main reason for not thinning acrylic primers is that it reduces the adhesion qualities to both the raw plastic and the paint to the primer.

Even a old Dog can learn a few things from time to time here.

Since you're doing a NMF, the mottle effect isn't what you want. But the post shading should do the trick.

Needless to say I'm looking forward to your next update.

Joel

SteveAndrews
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 551 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 03:52 PM UTC
Hi Joel

Yup, and I count myself amongst the old dogs too. Frankly, I was skeptical until I tried it, but the results are good. I suspect though that I'd be in trouble with a small needle as you point out. I didn't try, and I won't!

I'm preparing a piece of plastic card for testing some metalizer effects. I have AK's products because I tried them a little with success, and they do have some good reviews. The reviews alone are no guarantee of good result of course; we all have personal preferences and differences in technique and equipment (yes I am still talking about modelling).

I'm most interested in the new varnishes designed for NMF. With all the weathering and variations in tone planned I could damage what is still fairly fragile paint despite advances in technology. To avoid that I intend to seal the basic paint work in using one of the new varnishes. That will be part of the test before I go back to the kit. The question of course is 'Do the new NMF varnishes preserve the finish?'

I'll show you how I get on when it is done. In the meantime, keep up the great work on the Mossie, and as always thanks for tireless support.

Steve
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 - 09:10 PM UTC
Steve,
I'm really interested in seeing your results on the new clears for NMFs.

I've tried the Alcad neutral clear that is mineral based, and it did some what change the final appearance of the NMF. I've been using Testors old Metalizer Sealer, and there is just a very slight change, but the NMF still looks like a NMF.
Joel
SteveAndrews
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 551 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2016 - 02:19 AM UTC
Hi Joel

I'd hoped to post some images right now but Photobucket isn't cooperating. As soon as I can I will show you the results.

Happy modelling

Steve
SteveAndrews
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 551 posts
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2016 - 09:42 PM UTC
Modelling is all about the art of deception. Our main aim is to deceive the brain into thinking something small and plastic could be large and metal. We strive to make resin look like skin or pigments look like mud. And, there’s no harder deception to pull off than making plastic look like unpainted metal. I suspect that like me you’ve marvelled and wondered about all the products and techniques, most of which seem to get close but are delicate or prone to respond badly to anything less than perfect application. Getting a good natural metal finish is up there with painting faces convincingly when it comes to tough modelling challenges.

Having got this far with the Mirage, the last thing I want to do is mess it up with a faulty paint job. So before aiming the airbrush at the kit, I aimed it at some plastic sheet. I wanted to test some paint options and see which works best. I tested a couple of AK’s Extreme Metal range against my default option which is Vallejo’s Metal Colour. I tried all three colours over the primer I used, and also over the bare plastic sheet. The point of doing that was to test the colours against each other and also to see what impact the primer has. I also tested a varnish over some sections of paint to see what difference it made. It occurred to me afterwards to try a coat of gloss black over the primer, but as I thought of it late, the results will be late too.

The card was prepared like this with a strip of primer airbrushed on.



The colours were then sprayed across sections sections of primer and sheet to make a sort of checkerboard. I labelled each paint to make sure I didn't forget what was what. Once the paint was dry I masked off a section of each and then sprayed Vallejo’s special varnish for metalic paints. I also did a little test of some thinned Tamiya X1 black to see if it would make a good past saving effect. One the masking tape we off here’s how it all turned out:



The first thing you might see is that theres a definite metallic sheen to all the paints (except of course the gloss black at the far end). You can also see that the amount of light reflected varies, as does the definition of the reflection. The varnished section is most clear on AK’s Aluminium. Its the more dull section on the right. You can also see how important primer is. I taped over a section of AK Aluminium before I used any varnish, and most of the paint came off with the masking tape in the areas I hadn't primed. The Vallejo Duraluminium wasn't properly dry - I did it a few hours after the AK - and so hasn't been varnished yet.







This experiment taught me three things. First of all, priming is important. Secondly, the Vallejo varnish used over AK paints does dull the finish and it seems to either add or enhance any tiny patina that might be in the paint you lay down. You can see the impact of the varnish more clearly in the close up shots. Thirdly, each metalizer paint seems to have its own properties. For example, AK’s White Aluminium was much more robust when handled and masked, than their Aluminium. I’ve got some more work to do before I settle on a base paint for the Mirage, so watch this space for more news.

In the meantime my advice is test metalizers before you use them. It seems like each has its own little personality.

Happy modelling guys.

S
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2016 - 10:36 PM UTC
Steve,
Interesting results, but I was disappointed that you didn't include Alcad 2 since they the king pin of the Metalizers these days, and that's the only brand that I use.

I prime with MIG Ammo Gray primer rather them Tamiya Gray primer because the Tamiya primers contain a filler agent. When dry I buff it down for even a smoother surface. then I shoot a base coat of Gloss black. Really doesn't matter whose black you use. Once dry I rub the base out as well. then apply the Alcad metalizer. Slightly changing the color of the black base, will change the tone of the Metalizer. It's a easy technique for panel variations, and you don't have to mask the Metalizer.

Joel
SteveAndrews
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 551 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 - 12:47 PM UTC
Hi Joel

Yes you're be right about the Alclad. I didn't test it because I simply don't have any, whereas the other paints are sitting on my shelf. However, I hear what you're saying and maybe I'll invest before I make a final decision.

Decisions, decisions.

Happy modelling.

S
SteveAndrews
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 551 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 - 12:16 AM UTC
I just couldn't resist putting some paint to plastic, so I started small with the rocket pods. I can resist anything except temptation it seems...

SteveAndrews
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 551 posts
Posted: Monday, October 24, 2016 - 02:54 AM UTC
A little weathering can go a long way, and delivering the ‘art of deception’ thing without it is very hard. The front end of the JL-100 rocket pods looks heavily chipped in the reference photos I used, so I reached for a fine brush and got down to some fiddly work



Having squinted through my magnifying glasses for a while, I rubbed my eyes and went back to the main fuselage. Armed with my airbrush and AK’s Extreme Metal, Polished Aluminium, I took a deep breath and hit the button. The first pass resulted in this look



As you can see the AK paint is thin. It’s almost a wash. The first pass left a blotchy look that gave me an idea. I could use it to make some initial variations in tone. It’s a sort of negative version of the pre-shading technique Joel has used on his Mosquito. It took about four light passes and half the jar of paint until I finally stopped here.



There’s very subtle variation in the colour and reflective quality. The camera camouflages it a little, but you can see it most on the wings.

By the way, at this point I remembered that I had spilt Tamiya Extra Thin all over a wing during construction. I think this shot means I got away with the sanding, re-scribing and re-rivetting.

.

With the base coat laid down, now the real fun can start. More on that soon.

Happy modelling

Steve
simon64
_VISITCOMMUNITY
United Kingdom
Joined: August 19, 2013
KitMaker: 29 posts
AeroScale: 23 posts
Posted: Monday, October 24, 2016 - 07:38 PM UTC
I've only just caught up with this blog - boy have you done a great job on what seems to be a right pig of a kit. Wish I had known about all your SEO's (just love that phrase!) before all those AFV's (and you know who you are Dragon) ended up on the great fireing range in the sky, or bin as it's better known Iime to attack 'things with wings' I think.
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Monday, October 24, 2016 - 08:33 PM UTC
Steve,
The NMF you've achieved is ground breaking territory for me. Super impressive. The variation in NM Tones really looks like dirty and worn areas. the random effect makes it even that more believable. Well done.

Joel
youngtiger1
_VISITCOMMUNITY
California, United States
Joined: May 14, 2008
KitMaker: 534 posts
AeroScale: 47 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 - 06:08 AM UTC
Just saw this thread and nice work Steve. I like how it's coming along. I need to hang out more on this side of the Kitmaker forum.
SteveAndrews
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 551 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 - 02:58 AM UTC
Hi Simon, Joel and Mike

Simon, thanks for dropping in. This is probably the worst kit I've attempted in decades, but now its finally all together I'm hoping to have fun with the painting stage. I have to admit there are a few kits of mine that never made it past the anger and frustration stage. The pad out my spares box now!

Joel, thanks very much. You are generous with your praise as always. I stumbled on the NMF weathering idea thanks to thin paint and inspiration from your Mossie, so thank you for that gift too.

Mike, very pleased to have you looking in. I've built all sorts in my time from armour to aircraft and sci-fi. There's a place for them all here. Its one of the reasons I like the Kitmaker Network.

Have fun with whatever your building.

Steve