World War II: USA
Aircraft of the United States in WWII.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
Thunderbolts
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, August 25, 2006 - 12:24 AM UTC
Hi Wayne.
With the Alclad I spray it at a lower pressure than other paints.Normally about 5 psi. Its all personal preference though.Although the website recommends using the airbrush in a "paint brush style",I found it worked for me to mist the Alclad on and gradually build it up that way.As you say,,its practice and finding out what suits you best.
The gloves I use while handling an NMF plane are the white lint free gloves that you see people handling photographic negatives with.
The Alclad dries quite quickly,probably a bit quicker than acrylics, but I would leave it to dry overnight before starting to mask the different panels.
I use Tamiya masking tape,and stick it to the back of my hand a couple of times to make it less adhesive.It will still give you a good straight edge and this is just a preventative measure in case it tries to pull the base coat of Alclad up,but this has never happened to me.(yet!)
Hope this helps.
Nige
PS,,if you find you get a run or a pool of Alclad,just stop the paint flow and blow the pool to spread it out and this will blend in.You have to be quick though. :-)
Wad_ware
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Illinois, United States
Joined: September 09, 2002
KitMaker: 537 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 25, 2006 - 04:53 AM UTC
Thanks Nige
I got the drop tank and all the wheel well door pieces done with the alclad today. That alclad metalizer is really good stuff. Everyone is so right that the pictures just don't show the true effect. After I get more done tomorrow I'll try to put up a progress pic or two.

I got the body all masked off and painted black. It looks so neat completely black. I am really happy too that my seams and everything else to me actually looks pretty good. I'll check things over again tomorrow with a fresh head and eye just to make sure. But I think it is a go for putting the alclad on the P-47.

I ended up getting the polished aluminum and the regular aluminum. I am gong to try some different shaded panels. Will I just be able to spray the regular aluminum over the top of the polished alum or will I have to lay down another type of base coat underneath that too for it to look good?

I'll have to see if I can find me some of those cotton gloves. I use latex gloves which work really good but after a while my hand sure gets pretty sweaty under there. The cotton gloves would be a lot more comfortable.

Well, hope to have more progress tomorrow and good modeling,
Wayne
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, August 25, 2006 - 05:10 AM UTC
Hi Wayne.
Doesnt a P47 look cool in black?
Its a shame they never did a nightfighter version.Be a great scheme for a "what if?" version though!
Theres no need to reprime.Alclad over Alclad has always worked fine for me.Dark Aluminium looks really cool on seperate panels if you can pick some up
Working on 2 builds at the moment.My Jug is number 4 on the build list.I'll get around to it eventually
Looking forward to the photos!!
And dont forget,,,,,,,,have fun!!!!
Nige
Wad_ware
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Illinois, United States
Joined: September 09, 2002
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Posted: Friday, August 25, 2006 - 08:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Doesnt a P47 look cool in black?


You are so right about that - a sharp gloss black P-47 with realistic looking flames and smoke painted coming out of the cowling flaps wrapping down and around the cockpit. I have no idea what-for but a great what-if


Quoted Text

Looking forward to the photos!!
And dont forget,,,,,,,,have fun!!!!


No need to worry there I am having a LOT of fun with this bubbletop.
And it's really nice to have all this friendly company joining in.

Wayne
airraid
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: August 13, 2005
KitMaker: 277 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 25, 2006 - 12:04 PM UTC
Sorry, I`ve been away for a bit .I read your comments guys thanks. I built two P47 bubble tops, always liked it (Acadamy 1/48 ).Anyway one day I was perusing in my LHS when I saw the big one.I said to my missus I wouldn`t mind a go at that.She said get it then so I did ,and as I said got carried away.At the moment I have no photo`s but so far I have drilled out the instrument panel ready for new dials,built up a new engine block using white metal cylinders a friend cast for another project,Constructed a new cockpit floor and sidewalls,re-scribed most of the panel lines and started the visible ducting.Yet to do are the wheel wells ,some more side wall detail and to replace all the cowl flaps etc with thin brass sheet.
As yet I have not started again I am currently working on Hasegawa`s Stuka G2 nearly finished.Thanks for your support guy`s I`ll get on to it as soon as poss.
Wad_ware
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Illinois, United States
Joined: September 09, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 06:07 AM UTC
I was hoping you were still out there Dennis. There is no pressure or rush to get any pics posted. I sure am intrigued by your description of everything you have done and am eager to see some pics when the time comes.

Well here it is everyone, my first NMF using alclad. This is only the polished alum and I am going to do some shaded panels with the regular alum. That probably won't be for a couple of days tho because of real life.....darn it!!
I am thrilled with the way it came out and the seams and surface all look pretty good to me. There is just one slight side effect of something I had done when I was putting the body together. When I was gluing the body I had a small drop of glue that fell on one of the wings. I got to it real fast but there is always a slight mark left. I very finely and carfully sanded that spot which got rid of the glue mark, but, that spot that I sanded now looked different than the rest of the plane. Most of the plane still had the super smooth plastic look and the spot on the wing, well, looked sanded. I knew once I put the alclad on there it would be very obvious.
So I sanded very lightly and carefully over the surface of the entire body of the plane. When I got done the whole plane looked good and even surfaced.
When I tried out the alclad, I first painted the drop tank which was never touched with sandpaper. The alclad looked fantastic and has that really nice almost mirror shine to it. After I painted the body of the P-47 I noticed that it just didn't quite look the same as the drop tank.
Don't get me wrong because I love the way it came out. It looks great, it looks like metal, and it looks like ALMOST polished aluminum. It just does not have quite the shine to it that it should because of my sanding the body of the plane.
I have to do some learning on it. I used super fine sandpaper, but I bet I probably even need finer sandpaper than what I did use. Plus I didn't wet sand which I think might have made a difference too. I would be glad for any help and advice on that subject that I can get for next time around.
Well, after all that,.....whew... here are my pics.


Good modeling,
Wayne
newtothegame
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Washington, United States
Joined: October 05, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 09:34 AM UTC
Wayne, I'm not sure about the sanding. I know they often say it should go on a mirror like finish, so maybe you did need to go a little finer with the sandpaper. But WOW, I certainly don't see any ill effects, the finish looks great! Your other bits in the box look really good too. It is definately shaping up into a really fine thunderbolt!!!
Leon
Lucky13
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Scotland, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 02:21 PM UTC
WOW!! Looking awesome Wayne! Can't wait to see it finished......please hurry.....lol!

SmileyCentral.com
betheyn
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#019
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: October 14, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 04:01 PM UTC
That is looking really good Wayne. Are you and Nige having a competition on who can get the shiniest P-47 :-) .
I would definitely recommend wet sanding on future builds, as i think it doesn't score the surface as much as dry sanding.
You will probably find that the glue as slightly melted the surface where it fell, thus creating an indent.
Can't wait to see your P-47 come together.
Andy
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 04:36 PM UTC
Wayne!
See,,,its not that hard at all is it.Why is everyone scared of Alclad?
Welcome to the club :-)
Your P47 is looking fabulous,,just as I knew it would!!
Lots of carefull masking for you now
And if you think its getting a bit much for you,,let me know,,and I will email you a pic of what Im building at the moment,,,and that will stop you moaning about masking,,lmao.
Wait till youve done a few panels,,and got the decals on.You'll be grinning from ear to ear,,and deservedly so
Nige
Wad_ware
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 09:15 AM UTC
Hi all and thanks again for the nice words.

Andy - I am sure you are right about the glue melting the plastic. No matter how fast you get to it there is always some kind of little mark left. It really works fast But then, that is the whole point of that type of glue.
I am going to start working with wet sanding next time around too and see how that works out.

Nige - No, it really wasn't all that hard

Quoted Text

Why is everyone scared of Alclad?


For me anyway, it was the fear of the unknown (corny I know). You always read where when doing an NMF your seams and everything have to be SOOOOOOO perfect or it is going to be SOOOOOOOOOOOO obvious when you put that metal paint on there And,.... if you don't cross your fingers right, or if you walk under a ladder the wrong way, or any black cats cross your path, or you step on a crack on the sidewalk, or don't cross your T's or dot your I's :-) :-) then that will be SOOOOOOOOOOOO obvious when you put that metal paint on your plane. :-) :-) :-)

After the fact you look back and think ,what an idiot. That was so blasted easy and cool and so darn fun. Let's do it all over again

As for the masking, no problems there. I am looking forward to that. I just have to decide how extensive I want to go with the different shaded panels. Just a few panels here and there or quite a few panels here, there, and everywhere. Both ways would look good. I just need make a decision on that.

See, this is me I am all ready grinning from ear to ear :-) :-) :-)
My face is really going to start to hurt by the time I do get around to putting the decals on

Thanks again everyone and good modeling,
Wayne
Wad_ware
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Monday, August 28, 2006 - 06:29 AM UTC
Hello everyone, my name is Wayne.... and I ..am an.... addict :-)
It all started a couple of days ago when I opened the bottle of alclad polished aluminum metalizer And it has been getting worse since then. I want to paint everything with alclad I have a Tamiya King Tiger tank and am wondering.... just WHAT would that look like in polished aluminum and chrome :-) I do have a cat that is all ready black. So I won't have to bother with a base coat.... all I have to do is add the gunmetal or possibly some burnt iron That wouldn't make my wife too happy but she would get used to it in time.
My mind is spinning with ideas ... :-) :-) :-) :-)

I did get my shaded panels done and think it all came out well. I tried to find a balance of randomness without getting too crazy with the shaded panels or making it look like some kind of weird checkerboard. Even tho I don't think it would be possible to get too crazy. There could be so many different shaded panels because of age, battle damage, etc..etc.. I don't have any new pics yet. I think I'll wait til I get a little further along again. I am getting ready to mask off for the invasion stripes next. But again, that probably won't be for a couple of days or so.

I am so hoping that my decals that I ordered come with the markings for the prop. I had my prop all looking pretty good but realized I forgot to paint the back tips of the prop. I got stupid and sloppy with the tape on one of the blades and one of the decals met with a horrible accident.

Nige - I was wondering if you ended up klear coating your P-47. You had brought up trying that in your thread. Did you end up doing it and how did that work out? Since my NMF finish isn't quite mirror smooth like it should be because of my earlier sanding, I almost think I should do that before I start doing any decals.

Good modeling,
Wayne
betheyn
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#019
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: October 14, 2004
KitMaker: 4,560 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 28, 2006 - 06:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello everyone, my name is Wayne.... and I ..am an.... addict :-)
It all started a couple of days ago when I opened the bottle of alclad polished aluminum metalizer And it has been getting worse since then. I want to paint everything with alclad I have a Tamiya King Tiger tank and am wondering.... just WHAT would that look like in polished aluminum and chrome :-) I do have a cat that is all ready black. So I won't have to bother with a base coat.... all I have to do is add the gunmetal or possibly some burnt iron That wouldn't make my wife too happy but she would get used to it in time.
My mind is spinning with ideas ... :-) :-) :-) :-)

I did get my shaded panels done and think it all came out well. I tried to find a balance of randomness without getting too crazy with the shaded panels or making it look like some kind of weird checkerboard. Even tho I don't think it would be possible to get too crazy. There could be so many different shaded panels because of age, battle damage, etc..etc.. I don't have any new pics yet. I think I'll wait til I get a little further along again. I am getting ready to mask off for the invasion stripes next. But again, that probably won't be for a couple of days or so.

I am so hoping that my decals that I ordered come with the markings for the prop. I had my prop all looking pretty good but realized I forgot to paint the back tips of the prop. I got stupid and sloppy with the tape on one of the blades and one of the decals met with a horrible accident.

Nige - I was wondering if you ended up klear coating your P-47. You had brought up trying that in your thread. Did you end up doing it and how did that work out? Since my NMF finish isn't quite mirror smooth like it should be because of my earlier sanding, I almost think I should do that before I start doing any decals.

Good modeling,
Wayne


Addictive stuff isn't it. The pale burnt metal is my favorite, a nice gold tint to it :-) .
There is no problem with putting Future (Klear) over the Alclad. Your best bet (and how i do it) is to brush it on. Use slow strokes to minimise getting bubbles forming.
Hope that helps.
Andy
P.S Expect finished pics of my P-47 in the next couple of days, barring any trauma with Academy decals :-) .
betheyn
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#019
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, August 28, 2006 - 06:00 PM UTC
OK their not finished pics, but "just before it all goes up, before the Academy decals pics " :-) .
Andy
Wad_ware
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Monday, August 28, 2006 - 06:52 PM UTC
That's great to know about the Future coat. I think I would be much better off if I did that. Being NMF you don't flat coat it again after you are all totally done do you?

Your P-47 is looking great too Andy. I really like that realistic smoke rolling out of the cockpit :-) That's a nice touch :-)
Will be looking forward to the decaled version here before long. You sure did get that done pretty quick so far. Nice Job.

Wayne
betheyn
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#019
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, August 28, 2006 - 07:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

That's great to know about the Future coat. I think I would be much better off if I did that. Being NMF you don't flat coat it again after you are all totally done do you?


I would ad another coat of Future as it 1- helps the decals to sit and 2- it protects them from any washes or weathering you do. I would only add a flat coat (after the 2nd coat of future) to it if you didn't want it shiny.


Quoted Text

Your P-47 is looking great too Andy. I really like that realistic smoke rolling out of the cockpit :-) That's a nice touch :-)
Will be looking forward to the decaled version here before long. You sure did get that done pretty quick so far. Nice Job.

Wayne


Thanks Wayne. Their was a slight fire in the cockpit when the pilot dropped his cigar :-) .
I'm preparing myself for the decals at the moment, by doing everything else instead :-).
The only reason its quick is because its in 1/72, dunno how Nige takes so long over them :-) .
Andy
lampie
#029
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 02:14 AM UTC
Looking good Andy.
Between you and Wayne your going to have a great pair of shiney,,,er,,,,Im not going there,,, :-)
Bit of a speed build going on there mate for sure!

Quoted Text

The only reason its quick is because its in 1/72, dunno how Nige takes so long over them .
Andy


Hmmm,,,how can answer this?,,a witty jibe?,a short abusive comment?,,a cyber {{{{{{{raspberry }}}}}}}}}}.
How about,,,,,,," you cant rush perfection"? :-) :-)
Ok,,,If I spent more time building instead of on Aeroscale I might get more done,,
With what Im building at the moment I need to keep escaping from the workbench to stop me going insane,,LOL,,,say nowt Andy,,,LOL
Nige
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Tennessee, United States
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Posted: Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 03:40 AM UTC
Now you guys have done it! I just started Academy's 1/48 P-47N! I have several other projects going, including my campaign Fighters Under the Midnight Sun How will I find the time?

Actually, I am building the Jug for a Duel with a Ki-61. I certainly am enjoying reading all of your comments about Alcad, etc.

Be watching for my Jug ASAP, and for my FUMS Buffalo!
Wad_ware
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Illinois, United States
Joined: September 09, 2002
KitMaker: 537 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 05:37 AM UTC
Hi Fred,
Glad to hear our thread is helping you out with the alclad. You obviously have a 'duel' thread but feel free at any time to add your pics, comments, and progress here too, or even if it is just finished pics of your jug. This is just a totally informal thread for anyone involved in building or interested in watching the building of P-47's.

I will keep an eye out on your P-47 and the Buffalo and good modeling,
Wayne
betheyn
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#019
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: October 14, 2004
KitMaker: 4,560 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 05:50 AM UTC
Welcome aboard Fred, can't wait to see your progress. This builds getting rather popular .
Academy decals, why oh why did i think i could use them :-) .
Anyhow my Jug is nearly completed apart from one decal which i messed up. I am now waiting for a replacement kit to arrive so i can finish her. My LHS didn't have another in stock so i had to buy one online, but that does mean i can do the other scheme, and i also picked up the Tamiya Razorback as well . This 1/72 lark is contagious :-).
Andy
newtothegame
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 06:17 AM UTC
Andy, I can't believe how fast your thunderbolt has gone together. You are setting speed records... I was excited to see that you picked up the tamiya 1/72 thunderbolt, too. That is by far my favorite build up to this point - a really excellent kit. I am sure you will really enjoy it.

Fred, I am excited to see that you are doing a p-47 too. I hope you do post some pictures here. What are your plans (ie. out of box vs. resin / pe cockpit, decals, etc.) Anyway, I look forward to hearing and seeing more of your build.

Leon
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
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Posted: Friday, September 01, 2006 - 02:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Fred...your plans (ie. out of box vs. resin / pe cockpit, decals, etc.)



Hi Leon,

I am putting in a True Details resin cockpit, even though the instrument panel split asunder I am building Too Big and Too Heavy; I have Super Scale's decals, and then I got the Academy kit with them, too. So I'll use the set that looks best. Otherwise, it will be OOB.

More ASAP,

Fred
Wad_ware
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Friday, September 01, 2006 - 08:06 AM UTC
That's a great choice for a scheme Fred. I like that one a lot.
Are you going to give alclad a try on this one? If you havn't used it before you will be able to get a lot of help with it here in our thread.

Hope your instrument panel is fixable without too much hassle. Some day I want to try out one of the True Details resin cockpits. All the ones I see here that others used have fantastic detail in them. Do you have to sand away or remove any kit parts to fit that in?

Hope to see some good progress soon and good modeling,
Wayne
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
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Posted: Friday, September 01, 2006 - 06:59 PM UTC
Yo!

Lousy photo--expect a better one ASAP--but here's my not-yet completed True Details cockpit. I split the paper-thin instrument panel atwain and superglued it back. Gotta put color-specific items on the accessories, but otherwise these three parts are ready.

JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
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Posted: Friday, September 01, 2006 - 07:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text

...True Details resin cockpits. Do you have to sand away or remove any kit parts to fit that in?



Hi Wayne,

T.D. casts their parts to fit as the kit parts. No modifying.

Not sure about Alcad yet but I have two bottles. May give it a shot. Even if I monkey it up I have the Pro Modeler P-47N. I'll keep the post posted!

Fred